HTF Review: The Black Hole

Peter

Sorry, what I meant was a letterboxed non-anamorphic transfer upgraded to 16X9. Anything is an improvement over 4X3.

I was aware of The Abyss problems and I agree that Titanic looks fantastic zoomed, better than a lot of 16X9 discs I own. I certainly hope that when the SE is eventually released, it looks even better!

No, this movie was never intended as camp. That doesn't mean it didn't end up that way, though.

I agree there, that a more centralized character could help the story. Kate is indeed the obvious choice. She was almost the central character anyway.

Saving the Palomino doesn't make sense. One of the central points of the story is that Reinhardt made the Cygnus (and the probe ship) safe for the black hole through his experiments. No one knows how he managed it, but he did. The Palomino has no such modifications and would be crushed instantly. It never had a chance.

I still like the ending in the sense that they succeed in traveling through the black hole and come out somewhere. Another universe, perhaps? That's the way it should end. Now the sequence involving the journey through the black hole, however. There is definitely room for improvement there.

Another ending mentioned in the brief featurette on this DVD involved having Kate in the Sistine Chapel looking at the "Hand of God" painting by Michelangelo. And I believe that was it. That was related by one of the VFX guys, whose father also worked on the film and went to Italy to film such ane ending.

The guy in the doc also mentioned that they started shooting without knowing what the ending would be, which is why they wound up with such a slapdash effort. Everyone on the crew was literally coming with ideas for the ending. Not an auspicious way to begin shooting a film.

Then again, the ending of Casablanca was up in the air until the last minute, and look how that film turned out.

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that it was *intended* as camp...just that it ended up that way.


The THX rep I spoke with said that FOX had prepared the new master but that they didn't want to take the time and spend the $$$ to have Cameron approve it for the DVD...so they used the existing master which he had already approved for laser. I know that sounds almost like what you already said...the difference being that the new transfer didn't necessarily look inferior...in fact, Cameron apparently hadn't even seen it when they made the decision to use the already-approved master.


Agreed that it looks better than some bad 16x9 discs...but it looks clearly inferior to *good* 16x9 discs. You're absolutely right about the problem with over-filtering these days...and Disney/Miramax are the worst offenders!

doggonit.
i don't know what to do now.

this title was never a high priority for me, but in the last couple of weeks i couldn't help but get a little excited to see this again (for the visuals of the ship, and the minor nostalgia kick)- but now with dissention as to the merits of the new trnasfer...i just dunno.

the only place i was able to find a copy was a Target and i got the last one today -somewhat bizarre since they've had the under $10 AB version (with the superior jacket graphics) riding the bottom shelf for as long as i can remember and nobody seemed to be in a hurry to buy that out- but slap the Disney logo on it and suddenly its a new product (or maybe the Target shoppers are a little more sophisticated vis a vis 16:9 than their Wal Mart compatriots?).

anyways, haven't opened it yet, and i will probably wait until i hear a little more feedback on it first-

one thing Ted has goin against him is a a much less than 1.5 viewing distance and one hell of a blown up picture in general.
damn thats a bigun!

Just compared the two releases on my PC, and I have to say I couldn't see a lot of difference myself. The AB disc seemed to be a bit brighter and more saturated, but it also had more print artifacts in some scenes where the Disney version had none. I wasn't planning on watching the whole movie again anytime soon, but maybe I'll pop it on my big set while the other is still fresh in my mind so I can compare.

well i opened mine up and it looks like Davids review was right on the money.
watched the whole thing from start to finish.
i thought the disc looked very decent for a 25 yr old film.
in fact, it looked good enough to see the wires in just about every scene.
i was expecting a lot more blue in the space shots, but in other areas the print looked just saturated and colorful enough.

i think the best looking 2.35 non anamorphic disc i've seen on my set up is the original Planet of the Apes- the picture on TBH was clearly more finely resolved than that one, so i have a hard time understanding how ABs non-a disc could look better, or even as good.

screen size was 72" from about 10' back on an HT1000

"Saving the Palomino doesn't make sense. One of the central points of the story is that Reinhardt made the Cygnus (and the probe ship) safe for the black hole through his experiments. No one knows how he managed it, but he did. The Palomino has no such modifications and would be crushed instantly. It never had a chance."

That's why (in my "hey, let's remake The Black Hole" story revision) they surviving crew doesn't go into the hole, only Kate does - on the probe ship.

How in the world did I miss this on Tuesday? Must...get..to...BestBuy...

Anyway, I have VERY fond memories of this movie. It was that magical December of 1979 where this and Star Trek: TMP opened a week from each other. IIRC, I saw this at the GC in Woodbridge, NJ. It was a fantastic movie for its time. It isn't THAT bad, and I wouldn't describe it as camp (*COUGH*SHOWGIRLS*COUGH*).

What made it good for me was the atmosphere the designers created. You have to look at it from a kid's POV in '79 - that black hole rotating in space in the background on a 40' screen looked friggin' CREEPY. In fact, a lot of stuff in that movie was creepy. My nephew's the age I was when I saw that movie so maybe I'll show it to him this weekend.

Mike

BTW, I am not disputing David's review in any way, I'm just saying that to my eyes, on my setup, the AB version looks better.

Please, will someone in Davids area get him a copy of the AB version so he can confirm what I am seeing!

Also David, have you personally done any A/B comparisons on your setup where you prefer the non-16X9 version?

I should've been more specific. I meant to say there's no way to save the Palomino period. At least without modifying it. It was caught by the black hole's gravity. It had no chance of fighting the gravity to get out. There was no escape. That's a pretty major point in the movie. There is only one direction you can go - inside the black hole. There's no other way out. Personally I don't think that theme should be changed in any way if there is a remake.

(post #57):


Bill Buklis wrote (post #62):


DaViD Boulet wrote (post #64):


Oxford English Dictionary (online edition)

camp:


[Hmmmm . . .] My understanding of the term has always included the connotation that "camp" involves a deliberate in-joke that (only a portion of?) the audience is supposed get from the display on stage or screen; maybe a relic from the "bad old days" when certain social phenomena could not be discussed openly in public situations.

Interesting. I have to admit I never knew the term "camp" had anything to do with homosexuality.

From Merriam Webster Online:[list=1][*]exaggerated effeminate mannerisms exhibited especially by homosexuals[*]a homosexual displaying camp[*]something so outrageously artificial, affected, inappropriate, or out-of-date as to be considered amusing[*]something self-consciously exaggerated or theatrical[/list=1]
Option 3 is the only one that comes close to matching this movie as it does not have sexual overtones (homosexual or otherwise) and is clearly not self-consciously exaggerated. Perhaps outrageously artificial applies?

I don't see it as camp at all. I picked it up last night and watched the first 1/2 hour. Other than the misspoken line of "searching for habitable life" (as opposed to habitable planets), and even though you had a "speaking R2-D2", I didn't find anything laughable or outrageous about the movie at all. It's not perfect, it's not the best directed or best acted, but it's NOT camp.

Mike

Have you been able to do a comparison with the Anchor Bay version yet? Anyone?

Can't believe that out of all the readers and posters here at HTF...that *no one* in the DC area has contacted me to do the comparison. Bummer!



c'mon...won't *someone* with the anchor bay version step up to the plate? I'll buy beer!



-dave [img]images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

David:

I'm not near DC, but I'd be happy to ship you my copy of the Anchor Bay DVD for you to do a comparison. PM if interested.

Pete

Dave, Anyone get you a copy yet???



[img]images/smilies/smile.gif[/img] D

David,

I have both copies and am out in Alexandria. PM me and I'll find a way to get it to you.

quote:

Interesting. I have to admit I never knew the term "camp" had anything to do with homosexuality.

That's (chiefly) what it means in Britain, so if you see something/someone referred to as "camp" (or "camping" it up), it all has to do with effeminate/gay behaviour.



In my personal experience, I've always associated "camp" with the British definition and "campy" with the 'American' meaning (i.e. the 1960s Batman TV show).

Camp in the American sense was popularized by gay men.

AndyMcKinney wrote (post #80):

quote:

In my personal experience, I've always associated "camp" with the British definition and "campy" with the 'American' meaning (i.e. the 1960s Batman TV show).

Have you ever heard Adam West and/or Burt Ward talk about their experiences making that show? About a "confirmed" masked bachelor living with and going around in the company of a boy in colored tights? They were quite aware of the possible implications throughout the show's life, as they've said many times in interviews. That's why they felt the "corny" dialog was the only thing they could do with such material (on popular television of the time).

The Anchor Bay version has the overture playing over a static starfield image. The Disney version has the overture playing over words on the screen that say "The Black Hole, Overture".

Which is the correct representation of the theatrical release?

My memory of what I saw in 1979 was the overture playing over a black screen. I had never seen a movie with an overture before, and it puzzled me at the time. My other memory of that screening was my dad laughing hysterically when that meteor goes bowling through the interior of the Cygnus, ;)

You just know Disney will do a remake someday. Some Japanese company made figures of the robots a couple years back as part of their line of Disney characters. The movie was actually in development several years before Star Wars, although I'm sure SW got the ball rolling on production.

I laughed my head off at one episode of Sealab 2021, in which Commander Murphy is tormented by a robot that looks a lot like Vincent!

One cool thing about the old Laserdisc is it's actually anamorphic! (Sort of.) It's cropped at the sides of course, but the transfer was "squeezed" as well and fits a widescreen tv.

The only nit I had to pick with the AB disc was the "Distributed by Buena Vista" credit at the beginning was omitted. It was in the same computer typeface as the movie credits. Does the Disney DVD retain this?

Hmmm....so the answer to my question is that neither is correct! I hadn't considered that it could have just been a plain black screen. If/when Disney's Blu-Ray is released, I hope they either go all-black or use the Anchor Bay approach. The words are just inappropriate.

This was released back in the day when most theatres still had curtains covering the screen. I remember seeing this and the first "Star Trek" around the same time as a kid. The overture to both films came up, then the curtains parted and the films proper started.
Edited by Andre Bijelic - 7/9/2009 at 02:36 pm GMT

Interesting. I saw the movie in the a small theater originally also and I just cannot recall what I saw during the overture. It sounds like it could be at the theater's discretion as to what was actually being projected (or not) on the screen.

I just hope whatever Disney decides to do for the Blu-Ray, they do not duplicate what was on the DVD. The placement of words implies that they think their audience needs educating in this regard.

Correct.  I saw it in a small multiplex in a local mall and recall the overture playing while the curtain was closed and the lights were dimming.  As it reached the end of the overture, the curtains opened and the film proper began.  It was identical to the approach used for STAR TREK: THE MOTION PICTURE.

Harry