Good article about Blu-ray

http://dvd.ign.com/articles/524/524681p1.html

These guys are un-biased ok?

No agenda here.

I think the main point is the encyption.
Blu-ray has it and hd-dvd doesn't. At this point that determines who gets the most support.

Anyway, for all you guys who can't get enough of this obscure stuff, here ya go lol

Good article about Blu-ray

http://dvd.ign.com/articles/524/524681p1.html

These guys are un-biased ok?

No agenda here.

I think the main point is the encyption.
Blu-ray has it and hd-dvd doesn't. At this point that determines who gets the most support.

Anyway, for all you guys who can't get enough of this obscure stuff, here ya go lol

Brian:

It might be better to state it as:

Blu-ray has defined encryption, and HD-DVD hasn't

I have it from more than 1 source that HD-DVD isn't going to be released without encryption

Cheers,

Brian:

It might be better to state it as:

Blu-ray has defined encryption, and HD-DVD hasn't

I have it from more than 1 source that HD-DVD isn't going to be released without encryption

Cheers,

There's a great thread at AVS about this Blu-ray Summit Report. Lots of good info in that article!

There's a great thread at AVS about this Blu-ray Summit Report. Lots of good info in that article!

Pretty biased reporting there.

Wonder if Sony paid them for this one-sided view.

I like this quote:


This makes it sound like Sony is the only studio who has titles mastered in Hi-Def. It also leads people to assume these titles will be available in BluRay very quickly - when we know that they'll be released very slowly.

Pretty biased reporting there.

Wonder if Sony paid them for this one-sided view.

I like this quote:


This makes it sound like Sony is the only studio who has titles mastered in Hi-Def. It also leads people to assume these titles will be available in BluRay very quickly - when we know that they'll be released very slowly.

The article sounds like Sony wrote it, to me.

The article sounds like Sony wrote it, to me.

I think the article appears biased to some since it was coverage of a BluRay summit which was going to be very positive to the press anyhow.

There are some very interesting facts that come up. The biggest in my mind is that Blu-Ray is still deciding on a video codec selection and will have more than MPEG2 and possibly MPEG4 and VC9. That's good news...



Second, the BD-ROM features look pretty cool:



Third, and maybe one of the biggest is that costs will eventually be lower due to lower equipment requirements:



This is certainly positive news.

I think the article appears biased to some since it was coverage of a BluRay summit which was going to be very positive to the press anyhow.

There are some very interesting facts that come up. The biggest in my mind is that Blu-Ray is still deciding on a video codec selection and will have more than MPEG2 and possibly MPEG4 and VC9. That's good news...



Second, the BD-ROM features look pretty cool:



Third, and maybe one of the biggest is that costs will eventually be lower due to lower equipment requirements:



This is certainly positive news.

Good article about Blu-ray

Agreed Rachel..

I don't understand this

...One of the themes hammered home more than once at the meeting was that HD-DVD simply doesn't offer the capacity needed. A single-layer HD-DVD disc will hold 15GB of content and a dual layer disc holds 30GB. Blu-ray discs, by contrast hold 25/50GB in single and dual layer configurations...

As far as I know HD DVD movie will fit into single layer HD-DVD using WM9HD (or whatever the codec's names is).. But then again Blu Ray might think HD DVD is using the older codecformat Mpeg2?

John, do you have any info on this?

Agreed Rachel..

I don't understand this

...One of the themes hammered home more than once at the meeting was that HD-DVD simply doesn't offer the capacity needed. A single-layer HD-DVD disc will hold 15GB of content and a dual layer disc holds 30GB. Blu-ray discs, by contrast hold 25/50GB in single and dual layer configurations...

As far as I know HD DVD movie will fit into single layer HD-DVD using WM9HD (or whatever the codec's names is).. But then again Blu Ray might think HD DVD is using the older codecformat Mpeg2?

John, do you have any info on this?

Jesper,

It's pretty easy to do the math.

12-15Mbits/second of either MPEG-4/H.264 or WM9/VC-9 is >= to 25-30 Mbits/second of MPEG-2.

So if we do the math for 3 hours, assuming a worst case scenario average bit rate:

15 x 10800, we have an aggregate requirement for 3 hours of content of 162,000 Megabits. This would equate to roughly 25-30 Megabytes once you account for format overhead.

So it works just fine, with PQ that exceeds MPEG-2 at roughly twice the bandwidth.

Killer, would be the combination of Blu-ray capacity, with the newer, better codecs.

Cheers,

Jesper,

It's pretty easy to do the math.

12-15Mbits/second of either MPEG-4/H.264 or WM9/VC-9 is >= to 25-30 Mbits/second of MPEG-2.

So if we do the math for 3 hours, assuming a worst case scenario average bit rate:

15 x 10800, we have an aggregate requirement for 3 hours of content of 162,000 Megabits. This would equate to roughly 25-30 Megabytes once you account for format overhead.

So it works just fine, with PQ that exceeds MPEG-2 at roughly twice the bandwidth.

Killer, would be the combination of Blu-ray capacity, with the newer, better codecs.

Cheers,

I don't see what's so biased about this statement. Sony is speaking solely about the company they own, Columbia. This statement doesn't state anything good or bad about the other studios nor does it say other studios are more or less prepared for the transisition to HD disc. What I am reading is good news about Columbia TriStar's plans for Blu-ray. I know a lot of people at this forum don't like Sony but I'll side with them and Lee on this one... Blu-ray is going to be THE HD VIDEO FORMAT.

I don't see what's so biased about this statement. Sony is speaking solely about the company they own, Columbia. This statement doesn't state anything good or bad about the other studios nor does it say other studios are more or less prepared for the transisition to HD disc. What I am reading is good news about Columbia TriStar's plans for Blu-ray. I know a lot of people at this forum don't like Sony but I'll side with them and Lee on this one... Blu-ray is going to be THE HD VIDEO FORMAT.

Any high-def disc could come out tomorrow and Best Buy wouldn't even stock 500 titles, let alone 1,500. It will take years for the market to build up, and software support will grow slowly with it.



I think a lot of people here don't like certain decisions that Sony has made, but there doesn't really seem to be much held against them as a company. To the contrary, I think that some 'people at this forum' feel that Sony is beyond criticism. No company is.

I finally have some interest in Blu-Ray now that they look to be considering advanced codecs. Thankfully we have HD-DVD here to keep the pressure on, as it sure looked like Sony was going to stick with antiquated MPEG-2 as their sole video codec.

ps Hi-MD will fail, and single-layer SACDs are stupid. I suppose that's more 'anti-Sony' rhetoric.



Way too early to tell. The studios will decide which is the HD video format. If HD-DVD got Warner, Disney, Universal, Blu-Ray would become a substantial underdog.

I really don't care much about which format is the next one, as long as advanced video codecs and high-res audio are supported. For movies, the difference in storage space isn't that meaningful. And the best thing for the industry is no format war...

Any high-def disc could come out tomorrow and Best Buy wouldn't even stock 500 titles, let alone 1,500. It will take years for the market to build up, and software support will grow slowly with it.



I think a lot of people here don't like certain decisions that Sony has made, but there doesn't really seem to be much held against them as a company. To the contrary, I think that some 'people at this forum' feel that Sony is beyond criticism. No company is.

I finally have some interest in Blu-Ray now that they look to be considering advanced codecs. Thankfully we have HD-DVD here to keep the pressure on, as it sure looked like Sony was going to stick with antiquated MPEG-2 as their sole video codec.

ps Hi-MD will fail, and single-layer SACDs are stupid. I suppose that's more 'anti-Sony' rhetoric.



Way too early to tell. The studios will decide which is the HD video format. If HD-DVD got Warner, Disney, Universal, Blu-Ray would become a substantial underdog.

I really don't care much about which format is the next one, as long as advanced video codecs and high-res audio are supported. For movies, the difference in storage space isn't that meaningful. And the best thing for the industry is no format war...

Actually, I should've organized my sentences better.
That's just something else I brought up - that part isn't what I was referring to as biased.

I consider the 1,500 titles more marketing BS than anything else. It's true, but it doesn't mean much.



I agree with Michael, it's too early to tell.
The quality of titles will probably make the difference.
From a Sony vs. Warner perspective - Warner wins with the titles they have under their umbrella.
And if rumors of Disney jumping aboard are true - then it's GAME OVER for BluRay.

Actually, I should've organized my sentences better.
That's just something else I brought up - that part isn't what I was referring to as biased.

I consider the 1,500 titles more marketing BS than anything else. It's true, but it doesn't mean much.



I agree with Michael, it's too early to tell.
The quality of titles will probably make the difference.
From a Sony vs. Warner perspective - Warner wins with the titles they have under their umbrella.
And if rumors of Disney jumping aboard are true - then it's GAME OVER for BluRay.

Agreed. Fortunately it looks like BluRay will have an advanced codec once they decide on the way to go. Could be strategic reasons for and against doing VC9 and getting the Microsoft baggage.



Perhaps, but the main point is that for Sony and other studios, many hidef transfers are already in the can. Columbia TriStar saw we would have hidef so the operated their telecines for future product. This really is good because it eliminates the cost of an incremental transfer which should help more titles come to market. It will be nice to have the quality of DVHS with the convenience of a disc-based product.



Thanks John for the support but even I would hesitate to declare a winner yet. We do agree that BluRay has a big lead.



That's a stretch. I have criticized Sony on numerous occasions but many of us feel that the attacks on Sony often don't hold up to some the conventional "wisdom" on this board. Defending against the criticism of Sony with a valid argument should be valued here. I remain critical of their lack of titles on Super Audio. I also think they should be issuing single inventory hybrids for all new releases. But I recognize the value of higher sampling rate formats as well so I give them and Philips kudos for developing DSD.



If we use the Beta/VHS history as any guide, the winner will be due to strategic partnerships, not title quality. Besides Sony has learned that going it alone will codemn them to beta status. They will definitely get other studios on board so the Warner vs. Sony angle is not a good one IMHO.



The last rumor I heard had Disney leaning to BluRay.

Agreed. Fortunately it looks like BluRay will have an advanced codec once they decide on the way to go. Could be strategic reasons for and against doing VC9 and getting the Microsoft baggage.



Perhaps, but the main point is that for Sony and other studios, many hidef transfers are already in the can. Columbia TriStar saw we would have hidef so the operated their telecines for future product. This really is good because it eliminates the cost of an incremental transfer which should help more titles come to market. It will be nice to have the quality of DVHS with the convenience of a disc-based product.



Thanks John for the support but even I would hesitate to declare a winner yet. We do agree that BluRay has a big lead.



That's a stretch. I have criticized Sony on numerous occasions but many of us feel that the attacks on Sony often don't hold up to some the conventional "wisdom" on this board. Defending against the criticism of Sony with a valid argument should be valued here. I remain critical of their lack of titles on Super Audio. I also think they should be issuing single inventory hybrids for all new releases. But I recognize the value of higher sampling rate formats as well so I give them and Philips kudos for developing DSD.



If we use the Beta/VHS history as any guide, the winner will be due to strategic partnerships, not title quality. Besides Sony has learned that going it alone will codemn them to beta status. They will definitely get other studios on board so the Warner vs. Sony angle is not a good one IMHO.



The last rumor I heard had Disney leaning to BluRay.

The latest rumor is indeed that Disney is considering Blu-ray. And when I have a minute I'll find the link to an article from just last week in which the guy from Warner states that they are still "firmly on the fence" about which format to support. So many people incorrectly assume that Warner has already sided with HD-DVD. You are wrong, it's their former head who now works for Toshiba, part of the HD-DVD Org who obviously supports HD-DVD. Warner haven't yet decided. I wish I could go into a thread about HD-DVD or Blu-ray on ANY forum and not have to read those misguided comments. Almost all of the hardware support is behind Blu-ray. If you take the time to read the article from the Blu-ray Summit Group you'll see near the end that it mentions several studios are in favor of Blu-ray already. (IRREVELANT POLITICAL COMMENT DELETED BY MODERATOR; DO NOT REPOST.) Columbia isn't the only studio supporting Blu-ray. Other studios simply have yet to come forth with their choice publicly. I believe by the first half of '06 we'll all know which format is 90% likely to be the winner. I believe by then all the majors will have sided with Blu-ray. If I sound cranky it's because I believe Blu-ray is the best of the HD video formats and I feel rather passionately that they'll win the battle.

The latest rumor is indeed that Disney is considering Blu-ray. And when I have a minute I'll find the link to an article from just last week in which the guy from Warner states that they are still "firmly on the fence" about which format to support. So many people incorrectly assume that Warner has already sided with HD-DVD. You are wrong, it's their former head who now works for Toshiba, part of the HD-DVD Org who obviously supports HD-DVD. Warner haven't yet decided. I wish I could go into a thread about HD-DVD or Blu-ray on ANY forum and not have to read those misguided comments. Almost all of the hardware support is behind Blu-ray. If you take the time to read the article from the Blu-ray Summit Group you'll see near the end that it mentions several studios are in favor of Blu-ray already. (IRREVELANT POLITICAL COMMENT DELETED BY MODERATOR; DO NOT REPOST.) Columbia isn't the only studio supporting Blu-ray. Other studios simply have yet to come forth with their choice publicly. I believe by the first half of '06 we'll all know which format is 90% likely to be the winner. I believe by then all the majors will have sided with Blu-ray. If I sound cranky it's because I believe Blu-ray is the best of the HD video formats and I feel rather passionately that they'll win the battle.

Here you go:


http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1...200586,00.html

Here you go:


http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1...200586,00.html

A copy of this thread has been merged into the ***Official Blu-Ray Discussion Thread*** in A/V Sources. Please continue the discussion there.

M.

A copy of this thread has been merged into the ***Official Blu-Ray Discussion Thread*** in A/V Sources. Please continue the discussion there.

M.