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Zenith DVB 318 & LG 7832 DVD Player merged thread

#271
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Thanks John...

I just ordered the Zenith to replace my Toshiba SD-3800. I know that the Toshiba isn't the BEST player on the market, but I get a VERY NICE looking picture with 480p. Yeah if it doesn't work out I'll just return it or sell it.

Does anyone know the SVCD hack for the Zenith? I have ALOT of SVCDs and would love to be able to play them on this unit. THANKS.
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#272
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Quote:
Does anyone know the SVCD hack for the Zenith?


Here.
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#273
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Thanks Donald for the link!

Does anyone have the Zenith DVB318 hooked up to the Zenith C32V37? Just wondering if it's a good match?
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#274
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I found a disc last night it refuses to play...

"The Great Escape", I even tried it in 480p from the player. No go, played in my older cruddy Philips DVD player though. Very strange. Just gave me a round DVD emblem on the upper left of the screen, and a weird play arrow thing symbol on the upper right of the screen. I tested a couple of others, and the player seems fine. The disc says it is region 1. Just Odd more than anything.

John

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#275
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I've read some people talk about the Momitsu V880, so here's my review comparing it to the Zenith DVB318...

I spent about 3 hours evaluating my new Zenith DVB318 last night, comparing it to my Momitsu V880 (which I've now had for a few months). I first applied the regionfree hack to the Zenith, which was a piece of cake to do. The Zenith is the third upscaling DVD player I've tried. In addition to the Momitsu, I've tried the LiteOn LVD-2001.

Background:
I've been mostly very happy with my Momitsu, but I finally decided to try the Zenith because of all the hype & its DCDi chip. The Momitsu has a few negatives, which I'll address later, so I wanted to see if the Zenith could take its coveted spot on my a/v rack.

Setup:
My Momitsu is set to 720p & connected to my display via DVI. The Zenith was set to 1080i & also using a DVI connection. I used a Gefen DVI switcher to switch back & forth in comparing the two players. My display is the 720p-native Panasonic PT-AE500U projector w/a 100" 16x9 matte white DIY screen. I've calibrated the projector by eyeballing greyscale & using the Digital Video Essentials disc. Test discs included "The Fifth Element" (SuperBit), "Vertical Limit" (SuperBit), an early 'CSI' episode (4x3 flagged), "Star Trek: Insurrection", "Monsters, Inc.", & finally "Bend it Like Beckham" (Region 2, PAL format).

Build quality:
I'd expected the Zenith to be better built, but I'd say it's just a little better than the Momitsu. Both the Zenith & Momitsu remotes suck. I think the Zenith remote is even flimsier, w/buttons & functions sometimes conflicting. The cheapo DVI cable supplied by Zenith just did not work, so I used another DVI cable I had. The Zenith loader seems a little better than the Momitsu's. Both players have a silver finish & look sleek.

Features:
Zenith's Autoplay feature (which plays the longest title automatically) is nice when it works & a nuisance when it doesn't--don't try the recent "Hellboy" DVD w/Autoplay on. I had to physically unplug the unit & plug it back in to get the disc out. The 'Display' button allows quick access to different titles on a DVD plus switch audio & subtitle streams. It's a nice convenience. The 'Zoom' is wonderful as it scales the picture well & lets you choose the zoom area up/down/left/right. This works like the zoom feature in the latest LG/Sony HD receivers.

The Zenith doesn't have the ability to set custom resolutions like the Momitsu. The 'Upconversion' button on the Zenith front panel is a nice, easy way to switch between 480p/720p/1080i though. With the Momitsu, you can only switch via the Setup menu. The Zenith stretches 4x3 flagged DVDs to fill the 16x9 display, while the Momitsu properly centers the image w/black bars on the sides. Maybe there's aspect ratio control on the Zenith that I missed, but if your display doesn't have aspect ratio control when fed 1080i, this is a problem.

Picture quality:
I'd say it's a toss up. I found the Zenith a tad sharper, but my wife liked the Momitsu better. With its DCDi chip, the Zenith definitely deinterlaces better, but only w/NTSC material. Right away, with the menus on the two SuperBit DVDs, I saw a rock-solid picture w/the Zenith, while the Momitsu stuttered (stabilizing a second later) when I highlighted the different menu choices. The Zenith produced no deinterlacing artifacts on challenging scenes in "Monsters, Inc." (Mike's car) & "Star Trek: Insurrection" (the early village/hay scene). I thought the Zenith did well w/both film & video material, even those that were improperly flagged. While the Momitsu also produces a superb picture, its deinterlacing isn't as good. It does well with properly-flagged DVDs, but I've sometimes noticed motion jaggies & weaves (quick yet noticeable) on several DVDs.

With PAL DVDs, the Momitsu is a clear winner. I tried my region 2 PAL "Bend it Like Beckham". The Momitsu did a cleaner job converting to NTSC & produced no artifacts. With the Zenith, I noticed some stairstepping/smearing & a more noticeable PAL-speedup issue.

Issues:
In addition to what I brought up when talking about build quality above, the Zenith has one big issue. It has pretty bad pixel-cropping on the right side of the image. Since I have zero overscan with my projector, this is especially noticeable & definitely unacceptable. Both the Zenith & Momitsu sometimes have trouble with DVD-R/RW discs. When I stopped & played a DVD-R back, it played fine again. It appears fast-forwarding/reversing sometimes causes DVD-Rs to trip these players. The Zenith also has the well-documented (in AVS threads) DVI white-crush issue, which I didn't look for. Momitsu continually releases new firmwares, which for the most part, has made the player better & better. Zenith is apparently planning to release a firmware that at least addresses the DVI white-crush issue. If the firmware can also fix the pixel-cropping, Autoplay & 720p picture quality issues (also well-documented), this would make the Zenith an almost clear winner over the Momitsu. I say "almost" because the Momitsu still offers custom resolutions, properly centers 4x3 flagged DVDs, & handles PAL DVDs noticeably better.

Conclusion:
For my needs (& as the two players stand now), the Momitsu is a better choice. It does 720p better, plays PAL DVDs better, has no pixel-cropping, & properly centers 4x3 DVDs. The Zenith on the other hand deinterlaces NTSC DVDs better, providing a rock-solid picture. The Display, Autoplay & zoom features are nice, but I can live without them. I may keep the Zenith until they release the new firmware (before selling it on eBay). But, even if they fix the DVI white-crush issue, it's unlikely it'll do as well as the Momitsu on all the other areas I just listed above.

I think the Zenith is an excellent choice however for those using component out & w/a native 1080i display. It does better than the Momitsu @ 1080i component & the LiteOn LVD-2001 which I also had before.
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#276
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Maybe I'm doing something wrong. I recently bought one of these players too (march 2004 manufacture date). I should note that I'm definitely not a videophile and my eyes are probably just not as keen as some of yours. I have a Toshiba 50HX81, which I have never had professionally calibrated, nor calibrated with AVIA or the like. However, HDTV through cable looks great on it. I bought this player specifically for the 1080i capability as my TV apparently has a built in upconversion to 540 that kind of kills prog scan, or something like that.

When I got the Zenith I compared it to my cheap non-prog scan Magnavox. The Magnavox is routed through a passive switch and the Zenith is attached directly to my TV's 2nd component input, both with pretty decent Acoustic Research cables.

I compared with several movies, including Star Wars Episodes I and II and Animatrix. I sincerely did not notice much of a difference at all. I tried setting the Zenith to 1080, then turning the unit off and on again, but I noticed no difference. I did notice that the black bar at the top is usually smaller than the one at the bottom like some have mentioned. I don't know how to describe it, but in dark scenes the blacks seem to have something going on with them, sort like reflections or something. ???

Is there any way to confirm that my TV is getting a 1080 signal?? Would calibrating with an AVIA disk make any difference? ANy suggestions for making this a worthwhile purchase?
Greg
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#277
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Well, if your TV puts everything to 540p, you probably won't see much difference. I'm a little surprised by the black level thing though.

Do you use different inputs component video wise for your HD source and 1080i DVD? If so calibration would probably help. But I'm not so sure I would calibrate the one 1080i source input for the player, if your HD looks great on the same inputs.

But, then again, everybody really should have their set pro-calibrated in my opinion.

In this crazy, modern HT world, there are just so many factors, so I have come to the realization, that this player just won't be all that and a bag of chips, for everybody, that's for sure.

John

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#278
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John
Thanks for the reply. From what I understand about my TV, the Tosh HX81 series, it does not change 1080i signals, which is why this Zenith player seemed so perfect for it. I am using the same component inputs that I had the HDTV hooked up to. I just feel like it should look better. Oh well.

Does anyone know of any good professional calibrators in the San Diego area?
Greg
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#279
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Dear customer,

At this time we have no information pertaining to the release of a firmware
update which will allow the
Zenith units to play DIVX.

Thank you.
Kim
Email Administrator
LGEAI

POOPO! Oh well. I'm gonna order it tomorrow. I hope I like it, but if I dont, I'll sell it on ebay.

Does anyone know if Zenith will release an update to this player anything soon? With maybe DIVX/SACD/DVD-A support? Cause if they are I'll wait.

\"...smart, funny, exciting, touching...\" - Newsday
SaveFarscape.com

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#280
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Quote:
From what I understand about my TV, the Tosh HX81 series, it does not change 1080i signals, which is why this Zenith player seemed so perfect for it.


The zenith is supposed to be better for HDTV's like your Toshiba HX81 series because it does not allow for native 480p but does allow native 1080i. If you have a player that outputs only 480p, your Toshiba will upconvert it to 540p has it does not allow native 480p, hence the TV forces an upconversion of the 480p signal to 540p. Your set does however allow native 1080i to bypass any conversions, so the signal from the zenith at 1080i bypasses any further upconversion by the TV. Hope this makes sense.
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#281
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Greg,

The Zenith definitely requires different picture settings than most other players, specifically you need to turn down brightness so blacks will again be black and not gray.

I'd highly recommend you get a copy of AVIA and use it, calibrate separately for each input as your Tosh will save settings on a per-input basis.

On the Zenith, you need to stop play before changing scanrate with the button on the front of the player, the player's display will show the output scanrate. Press the scanrate button and wait a second or two before pressing again. Stop pressing when the player's display says 1080i.

Most sets lock out aspect ratio control when receiving 1080i, but your's may not so check your set's owner's manual.

Steve S.
I prefer not to push the subwoofers until they\'re properly run in.

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#282
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It's $159.99 shipped free from Amazon.com today.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...421935-5531929
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#283
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Wow! Thanks! I guess I'll get it from there then!

\"...smart, funny, exciting, touching...\" - Newsday
SaveFarscape.com

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#284
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Brent_j: a good upconversion will be based on the transfer of the dvd , the better the transfer the better the picture.

I own a XP50 and the Upconversion of this player has way more detail than the XP50.


BTW guys: whoever would use this player for 480P def wasted the money and don't know why anyone interested in this player for the reason obvious, I don't get why anyone would use or comment on 480P mode.
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#285
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whoever would use this player for 480P def wasted the money

Well, some of us have 480p projectors. We send the pj 1080i and it downconverts to 480p. Find me a different Faroudja or Silicon Image equipped player for under $250 that isn't out of production (excluding the Denon 910, flicker problem) and I will admit I wasted my money.


Quote:
I don't get why anyone would use or comment on 480P mode.


Ahem, your display must pillarbox 4:3 1080i correctly. Many people are not so fortunate.

Matheson- "There are probably some who'll say that by doing this, we are interfering with their culture."

Gideon - "Probably. Screw them."
-Crusade, Visitors from Down the Street
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#286
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my point is the zenith was not built to be a decent 480P player. now down converting 1080i on this player to 480P might be worth while. so I guess my comment was not intended to include your setup.
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#287
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my point is the zenith was not built to be a decent 480P player


Why not and why shouldn't it be? It uses the same Faroudja chip to convert 480i to 480p as it does to upscale to 1080i. The zenith actually takes the 480i from the DVD, upconverts to 480p, then to 1080p, then reinterlaces to 1080i, which is then sent to the display. There is no reason why it shouldn't be a great 480p player as well since it has the Faroudja.
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#288
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Things are a little screwy on it at 480p. Your right, it should be good, but in reality, 1080i out the component video is the most solid output on it by far.

John

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#289
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greg: as john said it should be good, but its obvious LG did not care of the quality of 480P output so its obvious and well known this player is not worth the buy strictly for the 480p mode.

there is obviously a mistake made and just glad 1080i looks so good!
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#290
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I did re-visit the Zenith not playing the "Great Escape"...


Well, it does play, but it takes 5 min, yes more than 5 min to load, the disc os odd, no menus or even chapter search. The player did freeze consitantly on a frame a little more than half way through the movie, I rejected the disc and put it back in, it did not resume, so I jogged at 100x to the offending scene, same thing froze on it, but this time when I ejected the disc did resume just after the offending scene. Odd disc for sure, my older player has some quirks with it even. Non-anamorphic widescree, no disc menu at all, and no chapters.. Odd disc to say the least especially for a region 1 disc.

John

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#291
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For all the people (not me, luckily) whose displays lock into 16:9 in 1080i/720p mode, they are stuck with

A) squishy people vision
or
B) Switch to 480p and get color bleeding

That's why the 480p mode should work well. All the modes should work well! Glossing over the player's faults because it "doesn't need it" is silly. If the mode really wasn't needed, it wouldn't be there.

Matheson- "There are probably some who'll say that by doing this, we are interfering with their culture."

Gideon - "Probably. Screw them."
-Crusade, Visitors from Down the Street
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#292
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Hey anybody ever had a disc just out right lie on the "Widescreen, enhanced for widescreen tv's" thing?

My Space Odessy 2001 disc says this on it, but no way, the widescreen is non anamorphic have no doubt. lol

John

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#293
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DaveGTP: nobody said 480P would not be needed or is not needed. the point is the feature is the player is an Upconverting Player and I don't think 480P mode was a primary concern or main attraction on this player. if it were they would have made sure it performed.
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#294
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That's why the 480p mode should work well. All the modes should work well! Glossing over the player's faults because it "doesn't need it" is silly. If the mode really wasn't needed, it wouldn't be there.

There is a new firmware upgrade in the works. Maybe it will get fixed also?

I am still deciding on this damn dvd player! I put an order at amazon.com but it wont get here until the end of August! SO I was thinking about ordering from the other place. Now I dont even know if I want it anymore. I wish this one played MPEG4 files! GAH! I'll probably end up buying it though. The other ones that do play MPEG4 are expensive. Poop. I'm gonna go nuts.

I emailed Zenith and they said they got no firmware in the works that will make it play MPEG4. Now I'm waiting for a reply to see if they will release a new model with it. Lets see.

\"...smart, funny, exciting, touching...\" - Newsday
SaveFarscape.com

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#295
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I use my Zenith DVB318 with a Sony 34xbr910 (direct view CRT widescreen native 1080i)) hooked up with Tara Labs component cables. I finally adjusted my TV controls using Digital DVD Essentials on the 318 at 1080i. What a revelation! I watched Superbit 5th Element and saw so much more filmlike detail than I ever saw before (after watching it many times before on the 34xbr910 and even a couple of times with the 318 before calibration) that it seemed like I was watching a different TV. I just got through watching Miracle and again the result was fantastic. The filmlike effect and detail again were outstanding. The 480p for the special features was also very good with no color problems but nothing like the 1080i for the main feature.

I am so happy that I got the 318 especially at the price! It is a great match with my TV.
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#296
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I may end up getting the new Denon DVD-1910 when it comes out (just recently announced, $270).

I'm hoping to see a Zenith firmware upgrade address the cropping (and maybe the whole SD color matrix thing).

If not...

Since I don't believe the 480i-1080i-480p uprez/downrez cycle to my X1 is helping...

The Denon is an upconverting player, but only via HDCP DVI. Good forward looking for me, but I could run it in 480p to my X1 for now.

As I may end up actually using my 16:9 screen as such in our new house, it would be nice to be able to use the Native mode on my X1 again.

Matheson- "There are probably some who'll say that by doing this, we are interfering with their culture."

Gideon - "Probably. Screw them."
-Crusade, Visitors from Down the Street
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#297
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I have a nearly 3 year old Sony widescreen rptv with only component inputs. I bought the Zenith primarily because it was capable of 1080i output over component outputs and was relatively cheap at $160.

The player is definitely not the perfect answer for everyone, but is superb for owners of crt based HD-ready rptvs and these are still the vast majority of HD capable sets in use. It won't pillarbox 4/3, but does an excellent job with non-anamorphic widescreen discs like Titanic and The Abyss using it's vertical only zoom.

I didn't notice the color bleeding on 480p until it was pointed out, and even then only really notice it on the "Zenith" intro screen that comes on when you stop the disc.

Steve S.
I prefer not to push the subwoofers until they\'re properly run in.

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#298
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I'm with you Steve. On my system, I have not found a better DVD 480p player as far as picture quality goes as the Zenith gives me at 1080i......

John

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#299
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Here is my issue with the Zenith, of which mine is a March 2004 build. The 1080i is nice and looks good, however, the player has bad pixel cropping and several other issues such as color bleeding at the lower resolutions, color banding, incorrect black levels, and green undersaturation caused by the use of an SD color matrix when outputting 1080i rather than an HD color matrix, which is belived to be the cause of the green undersaturation error, and white crush on the DVI output. In my opinion, the zenith does a great job with scaling and deinterlacing, but the core video has issues, resulting in a less accurate image. I myself cannot ignore these issues just because of the 1080i, especially the pixel cropping. The 1080i is really nice, but the other parts are not so good. Hopefully the firmware update that zenith is working on will address these issues. If they do, the Zenith can be a great player.
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#300
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greg_t?

You got pixel cropping out the analog component video out?

I'm still not sure I exactly understand what pixel cropping is, and how to detect it though.

John

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