ALIAS season 4 ongoing thread (merged)

#151

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1/7/05 at 8:06am

Jason Seaver
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Quote:

I disagree. The core of this show for me was the Spyfam story and Sydney's hatred for Sloane. Its been the key to the show since the pilot. (unlike S/V.) If Victor Garber or Ron Rifkin ever left, I'd probably leave with them.

I don't disagree; I just have my doubts that after all that's happened, these characters would accept him in a position of authority over them - or, quite frankly, continuing to convert oxygen into carbon dioxide. It's not that Ron Rifkin is giving a bad performance any more than James Marsters ever did on Buffy; it's that every other character has to act in an unbelievable fashion to keep this other one around.

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#152

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1/7/05 at 8:18am

RafaelB
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I'm thinking Eddy-C mean "Sydney/Vaughn" when he typed S/V, right?

I also thought it was a good restart, although, I have to say that (since I watched all 3 seasons over the past 6 weeks) it's going to be hard waiting a week between episodes.

Rafael.

#153

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1/7/05 at 9:25am

Mikel_Cooperman
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Quote:

It's not that Ron Rifkin is giving a bad performance any more than James Marsters ever did on Buffy; it's that every other character has to act in an unbelievable fashion to keep this other one around.

That's my problem too, keeping Sloan around as improbable as it can be. After all he's done they come up with little two sentence explanations to keep him in the picture. They're getting a bit old.

#154

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1/7/05 at 10:13am

Bob-N
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the death of her mom was anti climatic compared to what was alluded in the finale

That was exactly my thoughts with the "big reveal" about the contract on Syd. I told my wife the same thing and we really doubted she was dead until the last mortuary scene. In the back of my mind, she still could come back but like the Sloane situation, probably would be very awkward to explain her reappearance.

#155

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1/7/05 at 11:49am

Ric Easton
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Yeah I guess we missed the part where the government said, "Isn't Sloan dead?" And maybe they could have found some other spot for him istead of the boss. Nice to see Dix back in the field again, though.

About Marshall... I didn't really like him at first. I thought a little of his rambling fidgettiness went a long way. It took me awhile to warm up to him. I thought the best line from the premier was when he was captured and brought to his old cohorts..."Am I dead?"
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#156

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1/7/05 at 12:19pm

Patrick Sun
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Marshall's new nickname (Merlin) is appropo for him, and he's pretty much the plot device that allows the other characters to get through most of the ostacles in order to acheive their current mission objective. Without a Marshall to explain how to get through the ostacles, this show would be kind of bland. Marshall is also the voice of the viewer with his off-the-cuff remarks, in some respects.

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#157

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1/7/05 at 1:46pm

ThomasC
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Quote:

I thought the best line from the premier was when he was captured and brought to his old cohorts..."Am I dead?"

I thought (one of) the best line(s) was his subsequent remark, "Uh, Sydney...Sloane is here." His delivery was perfect.

The man I loved - the man who vanished - he never came back at all. But maybe he's still out there, somewhere. Maybe some day, when Gotham no longer needs Batman, I'll see him again.

#158

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1/7/05 at 5:21pm

Ken Chan
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Quote:

the death of her mom was anti climatic

Lena Olin pissed off the weatherman?

The show has devolved into just creating excuses for Jennifer Garner to get into hot outfits and vamp or run around or kick ass; while much appreciated, not quite enough to make a good TV show, especially a fourth season.

When Sydney saw Sloane, she should have leapt on him and snapped his neck. It would have been self-defense: "Oops! I acted on instinct and training. Sorry."

#159

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1/8/05 at 12:36pm

Ray H
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Over at IMDB, there's a news report that Jennifer Garner has nerve damage due to a stunt she did for the show. Anyone know if this is serious? It's causing her to back out of publicity for her new movie. Hopefully everything's alright.

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#160

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1/8/05 at 1:57pm

Paul Seyfarth
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This episode felt like it was ment to bring in new viewers who hadn't seen the previous seasons. I have a feeling that as the next few episodes progress things will go back in the same sort of direction as the previous seasons.

I am really looking forward to the next few episodes to see how they deal with all the stuff from the previous seasons. But I do like how they sort of restarted the show, there will be far fewer constraints on what they can or can't do in the show with how they have set it up. After that episode I just felt like I had no clue what was going on. Didn't know who was really working for who, what happened from the previous seasons. Most of all who is goign to be the big bad guy in this season. Also what about the Rambaldi device or item that they spent season 3 trying to find.

#161

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1/8/05 at 5:00pm

Jeremy_Watson
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But I do like how they sort of restarted the show, there will be far fewer constraints on what they can or can't do in the show with how they have set it up.

I feel somewhat opposite of this, the constant reinvention of the show is starting to irk me. I can understand it from a network/marketing persective, you want to get new viewers and not have them confused by previous plotlines. However, it is a bit of a slap in the face of the loyal viewer who has been following the show. So much of this shows appeal, at least to me, are the cliffhangers and intertwinings of the storylines, so for them to "reboot" every year or two gets frustrating. Especially when that involves such stretches of the imagination, i.e. Sloane's 12th chance with the State Dept, former terrorsists running CIA branches, etc.

#162

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1/8/05 at 5:35pm

Kevin Porter
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My reactions:

Post teaser/first act: "MY SHOW IS BACK!! WOOHOO!!"

Post Part I: "Um, what about Sydney's life being a project and such? Oh well. They'll answer all those questions soon enough"

Post Part II: "Oh come on!"

What a let down after such an ass-owning teaser/first act? I don't swear commonly but there's no other way to put it. It quite simply owned my ass. I was so happy and cheery. I got a big 'ol smile on my face from the first image of the show (for multiple reasons mind you. Not every guy who watches Alias watches Alias for Jennifer Garner's rather amazing body. Not to suggest I don't enjoy it. But not to suggest that I enjoy it so much that I'm lusting after/objectifying women and with the...okay yeah. I got nowhere to go with this. Suffice it: Jen Garner's body, while nice, is not even one of the reasons I watch the show.)

That was a twisted web of words there. Anyway.

I've been spoiled by Buffy and Angel and The West Wing and Sports Night. I really have. These are shows that exist in universes in which what a character does is consistent (Well, maybe not so much S7 Buffy and apparently S5 Angel) and what they do makes sense under the circumstance. Something from a previous episode may resonate in another one in an unexpected way. Most of the time in a way that's not even crucial to the plot. Just a callback to an episode right before it or sometimes seasons before it. And there was honest-to-god character development. You watched and loved these characters and they evolved right before your eyes, just like people do in life. All of these things made these shows work and just made the episodes come together as a whole and exist as a living, breathing universe.

My point is this: Alias has pretty much destroyed it's chances of ever becoming a logical and complete universe

If you look at the show as a world (which we should with a show like Alias), nothing about it seems to make sense anymore. It seems they've thrown in the towel on all previous seasons while giving us only spices of continuity that are superfluous at best and annoying at worst. Dixon and Sloane killing each other's wives? Yeah, but they're cool with seeing each other everyday and working together. A cliffhanger that showed documents about Sydney's entire life being a project? Yeah, but it was really about the mom so we could write her off the show. Weiss and Sydney building an ever so tight bond at the beginning of last year? Yeah, but now she has no angst with lying to him. Irina always has and always will love Sydney? Yeah, but she tried to kill her. Jack loves Irina? Yeah, but he killed her in cold blood. Sloane's life long quest of Rambaldi? Yeah, but it was all part of his plan to be Sydney's boss again.

There's no logic to the show anymore. And you know I'm not talking "the spy missions are so over the top" or "they don't really have gadgets like that" or "they couldn't really make doubles". I accept these things because the universe is a heightened reality. I'm saying that, within the universe we've been presented with and the characters we've lived with for four years, knowing their behaviors and motivations and seeing all that we've seen, the show doesn't makes sense anymore.

There are so many unanswered questions that to hit the reset button on us in a cheap ploy to either A) Try to clean up the mess they made and regret or B) Try to catch some more viewers in the 18-39 male demographic is a cheat, an insult, and a slap in the face saying "Yeah, accept this because it's what we're doing right now. You don't like it? That's tough" to everyone who's watched the show for as long as we have. I'll watch the show and enjoy it for what it's become but the show is in no way the same show I was watching two years ago. I'll watch and I'll be entertained but J.J., unless you start giving the audience enough credit by entertaining the thought that we just might have the memory capacity to know what's happened three seasons ago, don't you dare try to sell this to me as anything but an average, popcorn escapism, one hour television show because there was a time in which it was so much more than that.

Danny Federici, we'll meet you in the land of hope and dreams

#163

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1/8/05 at 5:39pm

LanieParker
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Well, I was absolutely disappointed! I thought the new season kick off was a dud. It's a carbon copy of the first season and although I enjoyed season one a great deal, I was hoping for something new and different. I think the writers were definitely scrambling around to make last minute changes and it showed, very badly.

The opening sequence sucks, and I think it's horrible that they took out the rest of the cast.

I thought it was lame how they made it seem like Dixon would be back in the game as Sid's partner and then he doesn't do anything at all.

Vaughn needs to go. I haven't liked him since, well, the first season really.

Marshall as always kicks ass. I love his humor and his one liners!

Jack was always my favorite, but I am getting a bit sick of the whole " I'm keeping a secret from my daughter and she hates me only to have her find out that I was protecting her" crap. Give us something else to watch between them.

I love Sloan. He is a key character and I hope they keep him around.

Weiss needs to stay with ALIAS. I enjoy him.

Lena Olin...Boo on you for leaving and screwing everything up for the writers!

Bring on Will! (since I am hoping that Vaughn gets killed in the next episode...wishful thinking! )

I'll keep watching of course, since this and Smallville are really the only shows I watch, but I am so hoping JJ didn't screw up!

#164

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1/8/05 at 5:40pm

Travis_S
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I also don't like how they just got rid of the Rambaldi device like that. It was made a big deal of Nadia being "the Passenger" and leading Sloane to Rambaldi's device in the last episode of last season, but it's just blown off in one line by Sloane in the premiere.

It disappoints me that the first 2 seasons were building up the Rambaldi plotline, to the point where "The Telling" was made. Then "The Telling" device is blown off in season 3's premiere, and the plot seems to be being ditched in order to bring in new viewers. As a fan of the first 2 seasons, I'm disappointed in that.

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#165

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1/8/05 at 7:17pm

Rob T
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Quote:

what about the Rambaldi device or item that they spent season 3 trying to find.

Sloane and Nadia found it and Sloane turned it over to the CIA so that he could be where he is now.

They're just starting us off with a few self-contained episodes to get us back into Alias. The Rambaldi storyline and the fight to the death between Sydney and Nadia is still coming.
JMS would have started off season 4 of B5 with a few self-contained episodes if PTEN hand't of gone bankrupt. That's just how things are.

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#166

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1/8/05 at 7:36pm

Travis_S
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Quote:

Sloane and Nadia found it and Sloane turned it over to the CIA so that he could be where he is now.

I know that. It just feels weird that a big part of the finale and last season is just blown off in a few lines from Sloane.

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#167

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1/8/05 at 10:18pm

Jason Seaver
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Lena Olin...Boo on you for leaving and screwing everything up for the writers!

Oh, for crying out loud... She signed a one-year contract, and then decided (for whatever reasons) to pursue other work instead. Her perogative, and it's the writers who didn't have a decent plan B to deal with her absence.

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#168

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1/9/05 at 2:46am

Brian.L
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Quote:

Sloane and Nadia found it and Sloane turned it over to the CIA so that he could be where he is now.

I know that. It just feels weird that a big part of the finale and last season is just blown off in a few lines from Sloane.

As Travis mentioned, the writers seem to enjoy doing that, like with the end of Season 2. Or at least rely on the season ending cliffhanger to bring people back, and just decide what type of retcon they'll use to start things off.

As for SD-6 Mach Two, I don't know how well it can work since they are secret good guys in an organization of good guys, so it's not nearly as exciting. And like other people have pointed out, as much as Sloane is awesome (him and Marshall are by far my favorites), the reasoning we are given for him being in command is so inane I just pray there is something more to it. And Syd has less of a reason to be uncomfortable around Sloane than Dixon considering they killed each others' wives...come ON.

I remember when this show had at least a modicum of reality. Now it's like: JENNIFER GARNER IN LINGERIE! FIGHT SEQUENCE! Oh but wait, now it's 45 HOURS EARLIER so we could leadoff with that sequence!! Which is good for cheap thrills, I guess, but IMHO doesn't match stuff like Syd having to let CIA agents be sacrificed to maintain her cover or Sloane struggling with the decision to kill his wife. Ah well.

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#169

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1/9/05 at 9:52am

Sam Favate
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Quote:

Dixon and Sloane killing each other's wives? Yeah, but they're cool with seeing each other everyday and working together. A cliffhanger that showed documents about Sydney's entire life being a project? Yeah, but it was really about the mom so we could write her off the show. Weiss and Sydney building an ever so tight bond at the beginning of last year? Yeah, but now she has no angst with lying to him. Irina always has and always will love Sydney? Yeah, but she tried to kill her. Jack loves Irina? Yeah, but he killed her in cold blood. Sloane's life long quest of Rambaldi? Yeah, but it was all part of his plan to be Sydney's boss again.

All of this is very true, and makes the events of the season 4 premiere hard to swallow for anyone who has been watching for a few years. While I enjoy the show and its twists, very often a show like this makes twists and turns not because they're part of the story, but because the audience expects them. The show's internal logic is gone, and we are seeing many plot lines rehashed again and again (Syd and Jack, etc.). I'm waiting for the show's perpetual other villian - Sark - to show up. He has become Alias' version of Siegfried from Get Smart.

This show should have followed the path of spy shows like Secret Agent, and introduce new perils every week, instead of following the path of the X-Files and making every week fit into a larger story.

I don't have time enough to watch all these DVDs!

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#170

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1/9/05 at 1:29pm

LanieParker
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Quote:

Oh, for crying out loud... She signed a one-year contract, and then decided (for whatever reasons) to pursue other work instead. Her perogative, and it's the writers who didn't have a decent plan B to deal with her absence.

I was being sarcastic...noticed later that my rolly eye guy wasn't there. I wanted her character to stay as I thought she was interesting...

#171

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1/9/05 at 5:48pm

Dillon*G
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Will they be re-airing the Season premiere.I just finished the S3 dvd and I want to start watching S4.

#172

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1/9/05 at 7:10pm

Paul Seyfarth
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They are really going to have to step up the next few episodes, or I am going to be very angry. They really need to introduce some new people into the show, we have seen so much of the current people.

After watching the season premier of 24 which was amazing, I really hope alias steps it up to that lvl again.

#173

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1/9/05 at 11:27pm

pitchman
Gary
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Quote:

I also don't like how they just got rid of the Rambaldi device like that. It was made a big deal of Nadia being "the Passenger" and leading Sloane to Rambaldi's device in the last episode of last season, but it's just blown off in one line by Sloane in the premiere.

The Rambaldi device will be back this season. I believe the two-parter with the return of Anna Espinosa and Sark (episodes 7 & 8) will revolve around the Rambaldi riddle.

Gary

#174

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1/9/05 at 11:49pm

Eddy-C
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Yes and the arc is supposed to ramp up later in the season. These early episodes are to hook in new viewers guys, have patience. Alias is at its make or break season, if its viewership doesn't stay up its bound to get replaced.

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#175

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1/10/05 at 8:01am

TravisR
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Thanks, Gary. Glad that wasn't a spoiler

#176

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1/10/05 at 9:31am

PhilipG
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I'm surprised by the negative comments here. Those who remember my posts from last season will know there wasn't a stronger detractor of the show than me... and I loved the season opener!

Vaughn: Last year sucked! (acted very convincingly!)
Marshall: We're back!

Did JJ Abrams read my mind? Things I loved:

- Syd doing another gratuitous fashion show
- The new credits sequence
- Return of the old SD-6 setup; and Sloan of course
- Dixon back in field ops
- Marshall not overflowing his dialogue, to be hilariously cut short by one of the others (first time?)
- Weiss comedy (particularly the "eggs with Sark" exchange)
- Resolution of stupid Lena Olin IM storyline (actress can of course return as her character was "killed" offscreen)
- Spy sis
- That brilliant bit when the Brit guard dropped a bottle of cola (not a gun of course!), and it set off the alarm! Then the quick Indy Jones sequence.

All in all, thumbs up from me. This is the Alias I remember from 2+ years ago.

#177

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1/10/05 at 10:58am

Ken_McAlinden
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Quote:

...Things I loved:
...
- Dixon back in field ops

..except for the fact that they are acting like he just picked up where he left off. For instance, the scene where he uses his silly accent to front as a black market artifact dealer to put the sword "in play", and the man he is dealing with says something along the lines of "you continue to amaze me". As a CIA director for 2-3 years, he would not have had much oportunity to establish and/or build an alias as a respected purveyor of black market artifacts.

Quote:

- Resolution of stupid Lena Olin IM storyline (actress can of course return as her character was "killed" offscreen)

...after which her death was confimed by an assassin she employed and her body was ID'd by her daughter for proper disposition.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it too, but that does not change the fact that they are asking us to swallow a lot of bull-poop in order to press the "reset" button on the series.

Regards,

Ken McAlinden
Livonia, MI USA

#178

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1/10/05 at 11:32am

Michael Hughes
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The Show feels tired, especially coming after "Lost" now, which is one of the better "freshest" things on TV.

The serial type plots will be gone now as they try and salvage another season past this one by placating the "suits".

Rather than go out in a blaze of glory and finish some of the plot developments we've invested many hours in the past few years, they reset the needle yet again, and now each episode will have a more "standalone" quaility to it, but it feels all wrong.

The show feels like Mission Impossible now (appropos since JJ is working on MI3 movie now), with almost no suspense anymore becuase there is no tension. We all know how each episdoe will end.

Compared to 24, this show just cannot compete in intensity.

And I have been a fan since day 1, but I am dissapointed they did not see it through and end it on a high note this year.

This appears to be a major sellout and I may be finished with the show.

#179

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1/11/05 at 8:55am

PhilipG
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Quote:

...after which her death was confimed by an assassin she employed and her body was ID'd by her daughter for proper disposition.

This is a series with perfect cloning technology remember!

And even if you don't have a clone - there's always the possibility of a twin sister. "Next week on Alias, Jack finds out he was married...to Two identical women!"

#180

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1/11/05 at 9:56am

Ken_McAlinden
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Post Count: 5,476

Quote:

This is a series with perfect cloning technology remember!

Nope, sorry. That technology was lost forever during season 2.

wait for it

.
.
.

wait for it

.
.
.

here it is:

...so it would have to be an Irina corpse with a latex mask.

Regards,

Ken McAlinden
Livonia, MI USA

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