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MGM to release MANHUNTER Theatrical Cut - FULL SCREEN ONLY!?!?

#1
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5/3/04 at 5:20am
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This could be a mistake MANHUNTER fans but here is the text taken from the DVDFile site today -

"...although Manhunter is a new full frame-only release of the theatrical cut only, plus a trailer. No word on whether MGM will be releasing the extended/director's cut previously issued by Anchor Bay. Stay tuned..."

I purchased the French Region 2 MGM release of the Original Theatrical Cut and it was anamorphic widescreen so there is still hope that this early report could be innacurate. It certainly doesn't make any sense for it to be released Full Screen Only. Maybe it will contain both Widescreen and Full Screen?

Currently scheduled for AUGUST 24th.

Johnny B.
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#2
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5/3/04 at 10:53am
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Is there even a market for a fullscreen copy of this? I would think that the fans of this movie would mostly be made up of people who know what widescreen is and why it's better.

Jake J.
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McCloud!
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#3
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5/3/04 at 12:04pm
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It would make perfect sense that when the true theatrical cut of Manhunter is finally released in Region 1, it would be in fool screen. This is one movie you definitely don't wanna see in 4x3 since the boom mike dips into the frame on several occasions.

Oh well, I'll stick with the overpriced, but very nice R2 DVD that MGM(ironic, isn't it?) released in Japan.

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#4
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5/3/04 at 2:12pm
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Quote:
Oh well, I'll stick with the overpriced, but very nice R2 DVD that MGM(ironic, isn't it?) released in Japan.

Me too. So far, it's the best version to own.

Jeff
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#5
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5/3/04 at 2:27pm
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I have to wonder how accurate this news is, since the recent overseas versions of the true theatrical cut were all released by MGM and are all anamorphic widescreen. Hopefully, this is just a case of mistaken reporting.

Vincent
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#6
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5/3/04 at 3:09pm
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GRRR! It's bad enough when they waste space on a disk with a laughingly titled "full frame" version...
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#7
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5/3/04 at 5:40pm
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UGH

This title is designed for widescreen. At the start of the film in the beach scene, you can clearly see that the wide shot is used to situate Will Graham and the other guy on the right and left. Fullscreen version would destroy the cinematic impact of this scene. The rest of the movie is probably ok.

I got the AB "L.E." which includes the laughingly cropped-and-matted "director's cut" version, which is actually a matted full-screen TV version. So I could see how bad it was.
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#8
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5/3/04 at 6:18pm
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I'm on the same page as Vincent. I just got a multi-region player and almost bought the R2, but am going to hold off for now (and hopefully retire my laserdisc soon!)
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#9
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5/3/04 at 9:38pm
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If MGM releases this in widescreen it will be the FOURTH cut of the film I will own on DVD.

Don't you ever, EVER compare me to "Family Guy," you hear me Kyle? Compare me to "Family Guy" again and so help me, I will kill you where you stand!

Do you have any idea what it's like? Everywhere I go: "Hey Cartman you must like 'Family Guy,' right?" "Hey, your sense of humor reminds me of 'Family...

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#10
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3/18/05 at 2:51am
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It's amazing that this title still isn't available in its OAR from MGM. This film really deserves a better release.

http://www.mgm.com/title_title.do?title_star=MNHUNTER

Jeff

"Technical Details:
Screen Formats: Standard
Soundtracks: ENG (5.1 Surround), FR, SP (Mono)
Subtitles: ENG, FR, SP"
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#11
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3/18/05 at 4:29am
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I highly recommmend a region free player. A DTS version in Japan is being released in April at a very low price--around $9.

Xbox Gamertag: badlieut

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#12
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3/18/05 at 5:33am
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The use of the term "full frame" is actually valid in this instance. Manhunter was a pretty early Super 35 film where the camera is set to expose the full silent camera aperture, and then a 2.35:1 aspect ratio image is extracted from the centre (or top) of the negative.

It is perfectly possibly, but certainly not desirable to make a transfer from the full silent aperture, a transfer that can legitimately be called "full frame". This has been performed for some Super 35 films including Apt Pupil.

Ironically when the film was remade it was filmed in 35mm anamorphic, even though Super 35 is far more common now.
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#13
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3/18/05 at 5:49am
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What's wrong with the Anchor Bay Divimax release?
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#14
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3/18/05 at 8:37am
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The Divimax is not the true theatrical cut. It is still missing some stuff. The Japanese disc has the complete theatrical version.

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#15
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3/18/05 at 10:48am
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Ugh. What a mess.

ENTERLINE MEDIA (entertainment articles and DVD/Movie/TV show reviews)

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#16
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3/18/05 at 12:06pm
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Quote:
The use of the term "full frame" is actually valid in this instance. Manhunter was a pretty early Super 35 film where the camera is set to expose the full silent camera aperture, and then a 2.35:1 aspect ratio image is extracted from the centre (or top) of the negative.


That explains the scene where the boom mike is directly overhead and hangs down almost a third of the way into the frame...

Quote:
The Divimax is not the true theatrical cut. It is still missing some stuff.


Well, that's not quite fair; the original release which claimed to include the theatrical cut was definitely missing stuff. The Divimax release doesn't claim to be the theatrical cut, it's his director's cut. It is missing stuff, though, I'm not disagreeing on that.

This is one of the few VHSes I still have, because (a) I assume they won't re-release it correctly and (b) even if they do, I'm not sure I want a 4th disc in my 'Manhunter' set.
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#17
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3/18/05 at 2:13pm
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So the bottom line is, is the recent R1 MGM fullframe of MANHUNTER is indeed have allt he scenes missing from the aB edition?
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#18
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3/18/05 at 4:43pm
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What's wrong with the Anchor Bay Divimax release?


Nothing IMO according to specs/reviews, though it's out of print. I just found a used one but haven't received it yet. I'm looking forward to the Mann commentary. Many people however want the true 'theatrical' version (in OAR) that has never been officially released in region 1 in the U.S.

Jeff
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#19
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3/18/05 at 6:48pm
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If this is truly full frame, I will never buy or rent it, the studio will not make a penny off of me.

I used to be a projectionist at a theater in the 80s, and am basically obsessed with widescreen. I know how it works, and I know what you're missing if they chop the sides off a film. If a movie is cropped, even the 1.85:1 films, I find it so distracting I can't enjoy watching the movie.

Full frame = no $ from me

Stan

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#20
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3/18/05 at 8:05pm
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Simon,
wrong way to look at it. It doesn't matter in the slightest what the method of shooting is, the fact of the matter is, this film will not be in it's correct and intended aspect ratio as composed for.

And guys, come on, this is MGM were talking about, do you really believe it's an error? I don't.

I'm beginning to suspect that they get some sort of sick pleasure from pissing us off.

Stan,
you've got a good head on your shoulders there, my freind.
"You have no idea how far i'm willing to go to acquire your cooperation." - Jack Bauer
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#21
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3/18/05 at 8:55pm
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I would just say that so much of what dvdfile prints is rubbish and incorrect, that it isn't worth going on about this until there is "official" word.
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#22
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3/18/05 at 9:00pm
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Quote:
I would just say that so much of what dvdfile prints is rubbish and incorrect, that it isn't worth going on about this until there is "official" word.


Er, not only is it true, but it happened months ago. This thread originally began in May 2004. The disc was released in fullscreen, as promised, in August 2004. Official enough for you?

DJ
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#23
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3/18/05 at 9:07pm
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Wow, that'll teach me to start looking at the date a thread was started before I make a total ass out of myself! :b
"You have no idea how far i'm willing to go to acquire your cooperation." - Jack Bauer
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#24
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3/18/05 at 9:21pm
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I did eventually relent to buying this DVD. It's the only DVD in my collection where the aspect ratio has been "butchered" as opposed to changed by the director, but I couldn't justify not buying it based on the fact that it was modified when I had 3 other modified versions in my collection. That's pretty much what the "Manhunter" situation breaks down to in R1: 4 versions, each one has advantages and disadvantages. I may be the only person here that's actually broken down and bought the disc, so I'll actually confirm that the R1 MGM fullframe DVD of "Manhunter" does include the true theatrical cut of the film, including the "blow the sick fuck out of his socks" dialogue missing from all 3 widescreen Anchor Bay versions.

Don't you ever, EVER compare me to "Family Guy," you hear me Kyle? Compare me to "Family Guy" again and so help me, I will kill you where you stand!

Do you have any idea what it's like? Everywhere I go: "Hey Cartman you must like 'Family Guy,' right?" "Hey, your sense of humor reminds me of 'Family...

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#25
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3/19/05 at 1:10am
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Simon, wrong way to look at it. It doesn't matter in the slightest what the method of shooting is, the fact of the matter is, this film will not be in it's correct and intended aspect ratio as composed for.

I was simply pointing out that the term "full frame" is meaningful when the film in question was photographed in Super 35.

Some films are photographed in Super 35 for the strict purpose of simultaneously producing 4:3 full frame and 2.4:1 theatrical versions, it is a legitimate use of the format that should be given consideration. In such an instance the aspect ratio of the film can't easily be considered a fixed value but rather a property of the film designed to be manipulated.

Whether I think this is a good idea or not isn't really relevant, I am just pointing out a contemporary production practice.

Hence I stated:

Quote:
It is perfectly possibly, but certainly not desirable to make a transfer from the full silent aperture, a transfer that can legitimately be called "full frame".


Conversely the only "full frame" transfer of a film photographed in 35mm anamorphic will result in a widescreen image - this assumes that they they reverse the 2X anamorphic compression ;-)
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#26
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3/19/05 at 4:40am
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Simon,
I understand all of that, however I sadly cannot agree with you. Full-screen, unless intended and composed for by the creators, deserves NO consideration from me whatsoever.

If a film is shot in Super 35, anything that is outside the intended composed area within the exposed negative, is extranious information that I, as an OAR purist, have approximatly zero interest in seeing. It may as well not even exsist. That "dead space" is only for Joe Six Pack and his/her ilk, not for us as film purists.

The only time I would even consider looking at a single frame of a full-screen version is for, perhaps, educational purposes to teach others, that's it, although I haven't done that for a long time because i've basically grown tired of wasting my breath and energy.

As a result of both this forum and my own research, I am self-schooled on the various filming processes, however over the years I have come to the realization that I do not concern myself with any of them, the only thing that I DO concern myself with is that the film's OAR is preserved and presented to me.

This is the very core of my dedication to OAR at all costs.

All of that other stuff, Super 35, Anamorphic, Flat/Hard/Soft matte etc, is just useless information to me. Put simply, I have eliminated all of the technical bullshit that can (and does) often cloud the issue and am left only with the one thing that is fixed and finite...the OAR is all that matters.

Unlike Bill above, I would NEVER under any circumstance give my money to full-screen...ever. Their are so many of my favorite films that I cannot own because of this, and some are from MGM. MGM will just never get it, it would seem.
"You have no idea how far i'm willing to go to acquire your cooperation." - Jack Bauer
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#27
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3/19/05 at 8:22am
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Oh, well, it WAS a bit confusing. But I do stand by my dvdfile comment, simply because it's true.
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#28
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3/19/05 at 9:54am
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Quote:
Unlike Bill above, I would NEVER under any circumstance give my money to full-screen...ever. Their are so many of my favorite films that I cannot own because of this, and some are from MGM. MGM will just never get it, it would seem.

I normally don't, either, but had I known that every single "Manhunter" release would be flawed in some way, I would have avoided the title altogether. I bought the first "Anchor Bay" set because it advertised OAR in both cases and the theatrical cut. Both were wrong. As we all know, the first disc is not the theatrical cut. The original "director's cut" disc is incorrectly framed (some have suggested that it's a matted version of the pan & scan version originally televised) and has horrible picture quality. I bought the "restored director's cut" because I was certain that Anchor Bay and Michael Mann would make sure the scene in question would be re-inserted back into the film. Wrong. Even though Michael Mann obviously expects it to be there in his commentary track, it still wasn't corrected (that's why I don't buy that this scene is missing because the director wanted it removed). Then there's the fact that there's footage present in the "restored director's cut" that looks terrible, but is supposedly the best version of the footage Anchor Bay had access to. This, too, is another undeniable botch job, because there is footage in th "restored version" that looks much better in their original "fake theatrical cut". The bottom line is this: I won't advocate the modification of aspect ratios, but if you own ANY version of "Manhunter" in R1, you are in possession of something that is modified, whether it's missing footage from the original release or the aspect ratio is incorrect. It's literally a case of what you feel like accepting when watching each version:

First version: missing footage, extra footage that doesn't belong there

Second version: incorrectly framed, missing footage

Third version: transfer of varying quality, missing footage.

Fourth version: fullscreen transfer

so you're damned no matter which way you go.

Don't you ever, EVER compare me to "Family Guy," you hear me Kyle? Compare me to "Family Guy" again and so help me, I will kill you where you stand!

Do you have any idea what it's like? Everywhere I go: "Hey Cartman you must like 'Family Guy,' right?" "Hey, your sense of humor reminds me of 'Family...

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#29
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3/19/05 at 1:54pm
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It's cool, Bill, I meant nothing bad toward you. However, if it were me, I would have completely skipped this film altogether until someone down the line did it right.

That's just me, though.
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#30
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3/19/05 at 3:32pm
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Quote:
It's cool, Bill, I meant nothing bad toward you. However, if it were me, I would have completely skipped this film altogether until someone down the line did it right.

That's just me, though.

If I had known the first two times, I would have avoided it altogether, but I got burned by trusting Anchor Bay, and the third time around, I just said "screw it".

Don't you ever, EVER compare me to "Family Guy," you hear me Kyle? Compare me to "Family Guy" again and so help me, I will kill you where you stand!

Do you have any idea what it's like? Everywhere I go: "Hey Cartman you must like 'Family Guy,' right?" "Hey, your sense of humor reminds me of 'Family...

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