isf calibration

#1

Rating: 0

12/2/03 at 10:47am

phyllis
offline

Joined: December 2001
Post Count: 37

I just had my television calibrated by an isf technician.Its going to take some getting use to the new settings.My questions are that when i use the avia disk to see how it fairs on black levels it seems that the brightness is way to high and i can see both the wavy bars.And the colour seems that there is a lot more colour now.Its seems that colours are over saturated but its not pushing reds.should i turn down the brightness to get only the one wavy line showing? What about colour should i turn that down or just let that grow on me since it was isf'ed

#2

Rating: 0

12/2/03 at 11:08am

Ted Lee
offline

Joined: May 2001
Post Count: 8,397

if it was isf'd, then i would say you should at least give it a few days to see if you just have to get used to it.

be sure to write down the settings in case you decide to tweak it.

ultimately, it's your set...watch it the way that seems best to you.

#3

Rating: 0

12/2/03 at 11:27am

JohnnyG
offline

Joined: December 2000
Post Count: 1,523

Is your DVD player set to 'Darker' blacks? Different DVD players have different wording for this and some DVD players don't have this option at all.

#4

Rating: 0

12/2/03 at 11:30am

Heath_E
offline

Joined: March 2001
Post Count: 157

Phyllis, who calibrated your set? Was it one of the well know, well respected calibrationists that frequent this forum, or was it just someone local to you? Unfortunately, the ISF certification doesn't really tell you much, and their talents can vary widely, very widely. I am sure one of the afore mentioned calibration experts will spot this post soon and will be able to help you determine whether things are right, or if you need to call and do some serious complaining.

#5

Rating: 0

12/2/03 at 1:07pm

phyllis
offline

Joined: December 2001
Post Count: 37

He is a toshiba rep and has done over 1000 sets he is very meticulous and took him a couple hours to do my crt 36 inch set.He used a vide pro vp300 and some kind of software on his labtop to get the temp to 6500k or as close as my tv would allow.He tweaked everything from the service menu and then used the blue filter to get the colours right afterwards.
The detail thaat i am seeing is just amazing.The only thing is that when i went back to chek with avia i found that the brightness was set to high thats what the disk says anyway.I can clearly see both bars clearly have to drop the brightness by eight notches to have it according to Avia.
Now i dont know if this has any bearing because he went in the service mode or not, plus he was using better equipment so that might make the disk calibrations void?Maybe i will turn down the colour a bit.

#6

Rating: 0

12/2/03 at 5:28pm

Gary Mays
offline

Joined: March 2002
Post Count: 29

For what its worth, I can't stand watching movies on my set when the brightness is correct per Avia. I always have to turn it up several notches. Otherwise, I lose the ability to distinguish between differnt "shades" of black.

If I adjust brightness as Avia recommends, a man in a black suit is just a black silhouoette. Turn the brightness up; and wow!, he's got a collar, and pockets, and arms!

#7

Rating: 0

12/2/03 at 6:25pm

phyllis
offline

Joined: December 2001
Post Count: 37

I agree with you when i was watching x-men and i went with the avia calibration i started losing different shades of black. With the calibration from the isf technitian i can tell the difference as well.With colours though i think i have to turn it down a bit i find things a little to saturated with this be ok or will i screw up the calibration?

#8

Rating: 0

12/2/03 at 7:25pm

Dave H
offline

Joined: August 2000
Post Count: 4,820

If there has to be a compromise between "rich blacks" or "detail" I rather lose some detail. I find deep, rich blacks give a more three dimensional appearance and more filmlike picture. The compromise is slight, but to me, this looks better. However, sometimes I might boost it up one notch. But, I seem to lose the rich black I like.

Right now my brightness is set with Avia to the point where I can barely even see the brightest bar --- it's virtually invisible...but I can see 'something' moving. (Keep in mind I have a RPTV and there is light scattering which gives the illusion that the bar isn't there - when it really is.)

#9

Rating: 0

12/2/03 at 7:47pm

Scott Wong
offline

Joined: October 1999
Location: Appleton, WI
Post Count: 418

I do hope someone certified can chime in about this. Paying cash to have a set calibrated and then have these issues come up seems disheartening to me. Without actually seeing the set for myself, I'm still kinda concerned. There are several ISF-certified technicians locally. Makes me wonder if I'm just better off with my AVIA DVD....

Scott.

Scott's DVD List
Samsung HLN-567W: ISF Calibration by Gregg Loewen, Nov. 21, 2004

#10

Rating: 0

12/2/03 at 9:17pm

Michael TLV
Michael Chen
offline

Joined: March 2000
Location: THX/ISF'er By Night - Calgary
Post Count: 2,792

Greetings

The problem with using a signal generator is that the TV is optimized for a signal generator and nothing else. Unless you watch the test unit's patterns ... you may never actually see what a proper grayscale looks like. The TV is optimized for a generator ...

Ideally, the TV should be optimized for your DVD player of choice ... since all DVD players have various idiosyncracies ... so the calibration is supposed to make the TV account for those.

You essentially got a cake ... but you cannot taste it. In time, the cake rots ...

When the TV is calibrated to the DVD player ... you get your cake and you get to eat it too. In time, the cake rots, but at least you got to taste it ...

Regards

Michael @ The Laser Video Experience
THX Video Systems Instructor
ISF Calibration Instructor
Lion A/V Consultants Network

#11

Rating: 0

12/3/03 at 10:51am

JohnnyG
offline

Joined: December 2000
Post Count: 1,523

Disagree, but we've been through this before Michael!

I suggested that phyllis check the black level setting on the DVD player. The answer is there. My advice was ignored so BYE!

#12

Rating: 0

12/3/03 at 11:22am

Gregg Loewen
Gregg Loewen
offline

Joined: November 1999
Location: New England
Post Count: 5,164

hi guys

the tech probably used the vp300 to generate the 480p signal, and was incorrectly setup ( this can be a problem with the accupel gear too).

johnnys answer wil only work if both the player and the generator have blacker than black.

also, some avia patterns are not correct.

have you called your isf tech to ask ??

regards

gregg

The Sonodome - circa 2001
The Newest Sonotube - circa 2001
Gregg's DVDs updated...sometimes
Lion Audio Video Consultants usually current

#13

Rating: 0

12/3/03 at 2:26pm

Michael TLV
Michael Chen
offline

Joined: March 2000
Location: THX/ISF'er By Night - Calgary
Post Count: 2,792

Greetings John,

Happy happy

I'm going back to Edmonton on the weekend to touch up a client's Panny 53" since he changed DVD units from an entry level Samsung to a mid scale Pioneer.

The Pioneer gives him a distinct green tint in the image ... so it is time optimize his TV for the new player. Until I return, he will continue to use the original player ... given the TV set up.

Just empirical evidence that TV's need to be optimized to the players.

This is not to say that signal generators serve no purpose ... because they do. They are great for roughing in a grayscale and other settings, but the ultimate fine tuning must be done with the DVD player.

I'm always warning my clients that want HD calibrated to bear in mind that the calibrated image with the generator might be incompatible with the actual material. More often than naught, the image is too dark after using the signal generator. Black detail is crushed ... on actual material.

Those that ignore the warning will usually tell me "it's too dark" after the HD calibration. Precisely what I told them it would be. So you get paid to say "I told you so."

There is also a general calibration rule of thumb for black levels. If you have to err, do it on the side of being bright rather than too dark. There are two black level patterns that one should be looking at ...

Regards

Michael @ The Laser Video Experience
THX Video Systems Instructor
ISF Calibration Instructor
Lion A/V Consultants Network

#14

Rating: 0

12/3/03 at 7:13pm

phyllis
offline

Joined: December 2001
Post Count: 37

My setup i have the denon 5803 ouconverting all my signals from all my sources.My dvd player is the denon 5900.What he did was unhook the components from the 5803 going into the dvd player and took the measurments.The dvd player stayed in standard mode so you cant chnage the ire form 7.5 to 0,so it was left at 7.5.i asked him if i should change it to 0 but he said leave everything flat to calibrate.I talked to him regarding turning the colour down and he said it would be o.k it would not mess up the grey scale.Actually i dont find anything dark in the shadows anymore everything is visibe.Prior to when i calibrated with the avia basic patterns for brightness with their wavy lines i could not see as much detail.all my ire wher in the 8500 to 12000k.So now i think with the new settings the avia brightness pattern will not match any more,shoul it?

#15

Rating: 0

12/4/03 at 6:21am

Dave H
offline

Joined: August 2000
Post Count: 4,820

What are the two black level patterns one should be looking at?

Also, what patterns are wrong on Avia?

Do you think I am incorrect to just barely be able to even see the brightest bar on the Avia pattern (with half grey, half black, two bars moving).

#16

Rating: 0

12/4/03 at 6:30am

Michael TLV
Michael Chen
offline

Joined: March 2000
Location: THX/ISF'er By Night - Calgary
Post Count: 2,792

Greetings

On DVE or VE ... use both the pluge pattern with gray boxes and the 50% white pattern with pluge. Then make a determination about where brightness is to be set. The two tests combine to test the power supply of the TV and usually setting it on the first pattern will result in the blacks being crushed in the second pattern.

Regards

Michael @ The Laser Video Experience
THX Video Systems Instructor
ISF Calibration Instructor
Lion A/V Consultants Network

#17

Rating: 0

12/4/03 at 11:29am

Dave H
offline

Joined: August 2000
Post Count: 4,820

What about for Avia, Mike?

#18

Rating: 0

12/31/03 at 10:33am

Henry Carmona
offline

Joined: February 2000
Post Count: 1,297

Yeah Mike, or someone

What about AVIA? Is it the step-child of calibration disks

\"Charlie don\'t surf.\"

#19

Rating: 0

7/30/09 at 2:43pm

GeorgeAB
G. Alan Brown
offline

Joined: January 2001
Location: Colorado
Post Count: 297

Quote:

Originally Posted by spammer X,

...................................

X,

Please re-phrase your post. It makes little to no sense to me.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
A Lion AV Consultants Affiliate

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

#20

Rating: 0

7/31/09 at 3:58am

Michael TLV
Michael Chen
offline

Joined: March 2000
Location: THX/ISF'er By Night - Calgary
Post Count: 2,792

Greetings

something really funny about showing up 6 years after the party to give input ... and the input is rather odd too.

Eyes might be expensive (depends on the country you are in I suppose) ... but they are not necessarily the best tools for calibration work. We can't trust them on color work ... as ably demonstrated by Alan and his hard work over the many years.

regards

Michael @ The Laser Video Experience
THX Video Systems Instructor
ISF Calibration Instructor
Lion A/V Consultants Network

#21

Rating: 0

7/31/09 at 4:19am

Cees Alons
Cees Alons
offline

Joined: July 1997
Location: Amsterdam, Holland
Post Count: 16,286

Gents,

Your remarks as well as your feelings about this are right: strange post, SPAM.

It has been removed and I took the liberty of editing the quoted copy out as well (for obvious reasons).

Let's please move on, nothing to see here.

Cees

HTF Rules (uhm ... and has Rules)

#22

Rating: 0

7/31/09 at 2:16pm