Home Theater Forum  ›  Forums  ›  Entertainment and Media  ›  SD DVD - Film and Documentary  ›  Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs
Forum Nav More Forums | All New Posts | New Thread

Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

#271
Rating: 0
6/3/08 at 9:20am
  • Joined: July 2006
  • Location: Toronto
  • Post Count: 261

Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

It's strange but I find myself much preferring the palette of Godfather II that was used for the original DVD. Its not just that it looks different, theres an entirely different pyschological color scheme to the film now; will take a bit of adjustment.
On the other hand, Godfather III looks amazing! Sharp and detailed, with rich color and a more interesting look.

I have to say, I didn't think these restorations would be that big of a deal but I'm becoming very excited about this.
Export to Wiki
#272
Rating: 0
6/3/08 at 11:26am
  • Joined: July 1997
  • Location: Amsterdam, Holland
  • Post Count: 16,286

Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

Damned mouse! Has a life of its own.

I was going to wait for the BD release, honestly, but when I only looked at the new version on Amazon/UK, it suddenly got ordered.

I can't help it, but I felt they made me an offer... well you know.
May have it before the end of the week.


Cees
HTF Rules (uhm ... and has Rules)
Export to Wiki
#273
Rating: 0
6/3/08 at 11:59am
  • Joined: June 2002
  • Location: NJ
  • Post Count: 3,273

Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

Looks pretty good overall. On the Godfather Part III comparisons, however, I find the second to last shot on page 3 to be a bit disconcerting though. The two men's suits have gone from gray to nearly black and they're standing in broad daylight.

"Here's looking at you, kid."
Export to Wiki
#274
Rating: 0
6/3/08 at 4:19pm
  • Joined: December 1999
  • Location: where ever my wife lets me, Mostly near Philly
  • Post Count: 11,215

Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Czyz
Godfather Part II comparison pics up:
El Padrino 2 DVD vs. El Padrino 2 - Remasterización de Coppola DVD DVD Comparativa - ZONADVD.com
Quite a bit of difference on some of these.

that "Vito New York City 1917" shot with the hall way light on the wall
looks way to bright.
the actual light is too right making it hard to see that there is actaully
a wall lamp hanging there.
it looks like just a light hanging in the air.

someone else look at it and explain it better then me.
Export to Wiki
#275
Rating: 0
6/3/08 at 5:41pm
  • Joined: July 2006
  • Location: Toronto
  • Post Count: 261

Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

It looks fine to me--you can still see its a lamp hanging, pretty much in the same detail as the original disk. The brightness between the two is almost the same, actually.
Export to Wiki
#276
Rating: 0
6/5/08 at 4:36pm
  • Joined: July 2002
  • Location: London, Engerland
  • Post Count: 762

Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

I've just got done with Part III and those caps don't do it justice. It's very detailed and clean, with a small amount of grain visible. And I'm amazed at how consistent the colour timing is across all three movies, as Part III now dovetails beautifully with its predecessors.

Even though Willis' photography doesn't quite capture the same timeless look of Parts I & II there is still some achingly gorgeous stuff here; the shot (near the end) of the opera performer being lost in a pool of black as the lights go down had me slack-jawed.
Export to Wiki
#277
Rating: 0
6/6/08 at 10:00am
  • Joined: October 2000
  • Post Count: 404

Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
that "Vito New York City 1917" shot with the hall way light on the wall
looks way to bright.
the actual light is too right making it hard to see that there is actaully
a wall lamp hanging there.
it looks like just a light hanging in the air.

someone else look at it and explain it better then me.
IMHO, it looks like the contrast is boosted too much.
Detail is clearly lost in the screencaps.
Look at the "white crush" on the guy's shirt sleeve and the loss of
colour on his forehead where the light is reflected:
El Padrino DVD vs. El Padrino - Remasterización de Coppola DVD DVD Comparativa pág. 2 - ZONADVD.com
(scroll down to the third pair of comparisons)

Edit: direct urls to pics stopped working.
Export to Wiki
#278
Rating: 0
6/6/08 at 10:29am
  • Joined: July 2006
  • Location: Toronto
  • Post Count: 261

Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

One thing to keep in mind is that the contrast levels and the overall image may actually be "correct" but video does not have the dynamic range of film, so where on 35mm those whites would still have detail visible as on the original disk, on video they get turned into hotspots when you bring the contrast up to its proper aesthetic levels. I guess thats the dillema of video: you can't 100% recreate the film original so you have to allow some inaccuracy somewhere--do you bring the white levels down so detail is visible as in the original telecine or do you match the contrast levels as they were intended to be and let the whites blow out in a few places? The contrast level is more important to maintaining the aesthetic of the original photography so the compromise is that you lose detail in the whites.

At least that is how I would explain this difference.
Export to Wiki
#279
Rating: 0
6/6/08 at 1:04pm
  • Joined: October 2000
  • Post Count: 404

Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

I hope those screencaps are misleading.
If those screencaps had represented the same DVD on two different
TV's, most of us would have said that the "restored" TV was inproperly calibrated.
But if the whites are truly crushed on the DVD, calibration (of your dsplay) will not bring back those
details.
Export to Wiki
#280
Rating: 0
6/6/08 at 4:50pm
  • Joined: December 1999
  • Location: where ever my wife lets me, Mostly near Philly
  • Post Count: 11,215

Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

Rick, that is exactly what i was trying to say, "white crush" if you will.
details in the brighter section of the image, lost.

hopefully those caps are not accurate to the way it will look.
Export to Wiki
#281
Rating: 0
6/6/08 at 6:13pm
  • Joined: November 2007
  • Post Count: 96

Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

I think we should all wait until we have more first hand reports from those who have the DVD's before we starting sound the alarm about crushed detail. Geoff D, who actually owns the discs, seems quite pleased. Those screencaps are good for showing us the new color timing, but in the end they are just screencaps.
Export to Wiki
#282
Rating: 0
6/7/08 at 5:24pm
  • Joined: July 2002
  • Location: London, Engerland
  • Post Count: 762

Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

Yes, that scene with Michael and Clemenza looks just as blown-out as the cap suggests. But given that the apparent level of boosted contrast is nowhere near the same in the rest of the movie (e.g. the cap of Sonny's shot-up car has less contrast on the new version) I reckon it was a stylistic choice for that one scene. It's set in a dingy room or basement with one light on the wall and the blown-out look fits perfectly.

Folk want to pick nits with the restored versions, fine, they're entitled to an opinion. But make no mistake, this is no Lowry-on-auto-pilot cock up a la Bond. This project was overseen by RAH, supervised by Coppola and approved by Gordon Willis; when it comes to The Godfather, it doesn't get any more definitive than that.

There's a revealing little article at CNET about the restoration: A digital offer 'The Godfather' can't refuse | Tech news blog - CNET News.com
Export to Wiki
#283
Rating: 0
6/7/08 at 8:35pm
  • Joined: June 2004
  • Post Count: 1,234

Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

I'm buying it.

The Godfather played for over a year at the same theater, and I saw it many times in 1973 and several times at repertory screenings after that. I like the look of this restoration. It responds to my complaints about the mid-1990's re-release which was all wrong.

Random disjointed thoughts, as an aside: theatrical screens are white mattes. They are not luminous like our television displays. The expression "silver screen" used to be literal. Originally, movie screens were aluminized. They had silver in them, just like film emulsions had silver in them. They reflected, they were bright and sharp, they were luminous when the projector bounced light off them. Todays' white matte screens don't give anywhere near as good an image, not even when the projection is up to SMPTE standards for brightness (which, outside of L.A., is rare. Projection has never been worse in the USA). One can't expect a television display to be the same as theatrical projection. Technically and aesthetically it's two different experiences. The Godfather was meticulously lit for theatrical projection. It has never looked right on television. The screen captures look much closer to what it should be now.
http://www.3dfilmpf.org/
"... little by little the look of the country changes because of the people we admire."
dialog in HUD (1963)
Export to Wiki
#284
Rating: 0
6/8/08 at 2:39am
  • Joined: October 2000
  • Post Count: 404

Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_D
Yes, that scene with Michael and Clemenza looks just as blown-out as the cap suggests. But given that the apparent level of boosted contrast is nowhere near the same in the rest of the movie (e.g. the cap of Sonny's shot-up car has less contrast on the new version) I reckon it was a stylistic choice for that one scene. It's set in a dingy room or basement with one light on the wall and the blown-out look fits perfectly.
Actually, IMHO almost every second sceencap for part I and II shows overblown contrast and/or brightness, most notably in brighter areas.
This is for calibration illustration but it exemplifies what I am talking about:
Lion Audio/Video Consultants
See the examples for "Brightness Too High": the increased brightness actually decreases the dynamic range of the display, and will cause the picture to appear washed out and incapable of reproducing proper shadow detail. (scene with Sonny's shot up car...)

and for "Contrast Too High": Initially, this appears to create additional "punch" in the image, but extended viewing of the picture becomes quickly fatiguing... Note the complete loss of detail in Benjamin's cheeks and nose as the highlight details are crushed... reaches peak White at about 80% of the way up the Gray Scale, causing all details above this point to be "crushed" together.
Export to Wiki
#285
Rating: 0
6/8/08 at 9:56am
  • Joined: September 2003
  • Location: Monmouth County, NJ
  • Post Count: 1,006

Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

Yes, and the Godfather films also have "black crush" because Gordon Willis likes inky, deep blacks, so what? You're arguing against the stylistic choices of the filmmakers. Seeing every bit of detail in an image frequently isn't the point. That's why cinematography is often referred to as "painting with light". These are artistic expressions, they aren't meant to be blanket representations of actual reality.

Vincent

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickardL
Actually, IMHO almost every second sceencap for part I and II shows overblown contrast and/or brightness, most notably in brighter areas.
This is for calibration illustration but it exemplifies what I am talking about:
Lion Audio/Video Consultants
See the examples for "Brightness Too High": the increased brightness actually decreases the dynamic range of the display, and will cause the picture to appear washed out and incapable of reproducing proper shadow detail. (scene with Sonny's shot up car...)

and for "Contrast Too High": Initially, this appears to create additional "punch" in the image, but extended viewing of the picture becomes quickly fatiguing... Note the complete loss of detail in Benjamin's cheeks and nose as the highlight details are crushed... reaches peak White at about 80% of the way up the Gray Scale, causing all details above this point to be "crushed" together.
Export to Wiki
#286
Rating: 0
6/8/08 at 11:17am
  • Joined: July 1997
  • Location: Amsterdam, Holland
  • Post Count: 16,286

Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

Hear, hear!
And screen caps don't say a thing anyway. The shot can easily go through an overblown contrast from (and to) a differently looking image.


Cees
HTF Rules (uhm ... and has Rules)
Export to Wiki
#287
Rating: 0
6/8/08 at 11:25am
  • Joined: February 2008
  • Post Count: 593

Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent_P
Yes, and the Godfather films also have "black crush" because Gordon Willis likes inky, deep blacks, so what? You're arguing against the stylistic choices of the filmmakers. Seeing every bit of detail in an image frequently isn't the point. That's why cinematography is often referred to as "painting with light". These are artistic expressions, they aren't meant to be blanket representations of actual reality.

Vincent

This is right. In this day and age of DVD and Blu-Ray for classics, I think everyone knows more than the director and the director of photography - everyone seems to think they know what's supposed to be, and yet this transfer was supervised every inch of the way by its director and cameraman, as pointed out above. As someone said, it doesn't get closer to the source than that. But if folks are only used to seeing these films on the older DVDs then that must be what they're used to - I think most of the nitpicking comes from people who haven't seen the film in 35mm. IMHO.
Export to Wiki
#288
Rating: 0
6/30/08 at 7:52am
  • Joined: April 2003
  • Location: Bolton, Lancashire
  • Post Count: 3,296

Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

Announced now for September; DVD Times has the R1 SD set details here.

And the BD details are here.
So many films, so little time...
Film Journal Blog
Harold Shand: What I'm looking for is someone who can contribute to what England has given to the world: culture, sophistication, genius. A little bit more than an 'ot dog, know what I mean?
Export to Wiki
#289
Rating: 0
6/30/08 at 9:20am
  • Joined: April 2002
  • Post Count: 7,134

Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

Thanks John for the link.

Will probably be my first BR Movie as my PS 3 arrived today.

Toastmasters International

Communication is Everything

Export to Wiki
Forum Nav More Forums | All New Posts | New Thread