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Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

#241
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5/28/08 at 1:49pm
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

Comparison pics up here:
El Padrino DVD vs. El Padrino - Remasterización de Coppola DVD DVD Comparativa - ZONADVD.com
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#242
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5/28/08 at 7:54pm
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

Looks good. Maybe a bit too golden, but that's probably the way it's supposed to be.

"Here's looking at you, kid."
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#243
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5/28/08 at 9:47pm
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

The new one looks much better, more like what was intended. I can't wait to see the restoration, but would it KILL Paramount to leave the original logos alone? Jeez Louise, it's not like if you say "A Gulf + Western Company" the universe will implode!

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#244
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5/29/08 at 9:38am
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

The color looks like it might be bleeding in thise captures of the new transfer. Probably just the capture software.

I really do hope we see a Blu-Ray release this year and not just a cynical SD DVD only wallet-teaser.
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#245
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5/29/08 at 10:14am
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

It feels like the golden tint is pushed too far in some of those shots--like its being made to look like a film stock thats faded or had its color go wonky. I'm curious just what their reference is for the color grading. I know Gordon Willis gave advice over the phone, but it just feels slightly too stylistic, rather than the ugly, harsh naturalism I'm used to seeing (unlike Godfather II, which was highly stylised).
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#246
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5/29/08 at 12:21pm
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

When I viewed a 35mm answer print of this restoration with Robert Harris, Allen Daviau, and Gordon Willis in attendance back in March, Willis said the color was "dead on", and according to the American Cinematographer article which is linked somewhere around here, Harris and co. used a vintage I.B. Technicolor print that Willis approved as the color timing reference. The screen shots posted reflect what I saw in that restored 35mm print that Willis was so happy with.

Vincent
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#247
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5/29/08 at 3:42pm
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewA
The new one looks much better, more like what was intended. I can't wait to see the restoration, but would it KILL Paramount to leave the original logos alone? Jeez Louise, it's not like if you say "A Gulf + Western Company" the universe will implode!
Two things: keep in mind that this restored version has received limited public screenings, and as such, Paramount is entitled to reflect the current status of the company when its product is released or re-released to the public. Second, Paramount is not the most egregious offender on this front (can anyone say MGM? They'd change corporate logos on video releases every time they possibly could). Warner has also changed logos on several of its titles (Blade Runner comes to mind).

\"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player.\"-- Roger Ebert

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#248
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5/29/08 at 4:30pm
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H
Two things: keep in mind that this restored version has received limited public screenings, and as such, Paramount is entitled to reflect the current status of the company when its product is released or re-released to the public. Second, Paramount is not the most egregious offender on this front (can anyone say MGM? They'd change corporate logos on video releases every time they possibly could). Warner has also changed logos on several of its titles (Blade Runner comes to mind).

The film is supposed to look like it looked in 1972. In 1972, Viacom was a government-mandated spinoff of CBS-TV that sold I Love Lucy reruns to local stations. There is nothing legally to stop them, but that doesn't make it right.

MGM is worse and WB is problematic, but for this prestigious film it bothers me. It's not a deal breaker, just a blotch on what promises to be a stunning restoration.

STOP THE MADNESS! STOP THE BUTCHERING AND ABANDONMENT OF TV SHOWS ON DVD!

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#249
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5/29/08 at 8:13pm
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

For the American BluRay and DVD editions, I really just ask for...

- No overdone noise reduction
- Original Paramount logos (nitpicky, but they ARE part of the original film)
- Both original mono and the 5.1 remixes

Tell The Weinstein Company to release Richard Williams' animated masterpiece The Thief and the Cobbler on DVD in Panavision widescreen and uncut! See and hear what you're missing from their Bitsy Award winner of Worst Standard Edition DVD of 2006 on YouTube!
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#250
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5/29/08 at 8:35pm
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

The only time I really take issue with the changing of the logos is when the logo is an integral part of the film itself and not merely something tacked on to the beginning of the movie to identify the distributor. Warner in the late 60s and early 70s would actually overlay the logo on the beginning of several films, including Clockwork Orange and The Omega Man. Now, if something were to be done to those logos, I'd be pissed, but the logo change on The Godfather would have happened back in the 90s, when it was rereleased. Since the Gulf + Western logo would not accurately reflect ownership of the distributor, Paramount was within its rights to change it.

I agree that it would be nice to have all original logos on films, but with a lot of films changing ownership several times in the last few years, unless the logo is an integral part of the film, grousing about original logos amounts to nitpicking. There are bigger fish to fry, like DVNR and original audio tracks, not to mention that we still have to keep on top of OAR from time to time.

\"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player.\"-- Roger Ebert

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#251
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5/30/08 at 6:00am
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

You'd think that if they were going to plaster the Paramount logo, FFC would've at least used the new "mock 60's" one from Kingdom of the Crystal Skull since that one's at least somewhat historically accurate.
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#252
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5/30/08 at 3:00pm
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

Another reason for me to check out KOTCS this weekend. Thanks, Joel!

\"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player.\"-- Roger Ebert

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#253
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5/30/08 at 3:50pm
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

Those grabs are certainly interesting. Golden hues for indoors and colder tones for outside, instead of the permanent sepia-style look that the last DVDs had. I can hear the cries of 'revisionism!' already.

The last grabs on page 1 of that link show what can be done though: the image has been brightened without blowing out the contrast (you can make out the grating behind the car but the detail is still retained on the ice in the gutter) and those darn oranges look very vivid. Lovely.

I should have my hands on the UK DVDs in a couple of days. They won't be a final indicator of how the films will look on R1, but I doubt they'll be too far removed. I'd normally wait for the R1 but I want to see this restoration ASAP.
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#254
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5/30/08 at 5:26pm
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

The golden hues have been kept for the outdoor Italy sequences from the looks of things. I'm not sure what the logic there is--I guess to keep the nostalgic feel of the "old country"? I'm a little apprehensive about that because the sepia tint elsewhere is not a "nostalgia" thing, but merely a practical indoor/outdoor thing from the looks of the screengrabs, as was pointed out. But I guess this is the way its supposed to be.
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#255
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5/30/08 at 9:38pm
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

Mike:

I gotta admit, being used to the color timing on the DVDs, when the 35mm print first cut to the outdoors during the wedding scene, it was a bit of a shock, but hearing Gordon Willis say the color of the print was "dead on" was enough proof for me that the restored version is correct, plus the immaculate condition of the restored print overall. In fact, when I popped in the DVD the day after viewing the print, in context the DVD just looked wrong. Robert Harris really went the full nine yards and beyond to make sure this looked the absolute, 100% right way, using a vintage I.B. Technicolor print as a timing reference, and Gordon Willis gave it his approval.

Vincent
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#256
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5/30/08 at 10:06pm
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

What I am most interested in now is how Godfather II will look. My understanding there is that the flashbacks were sepia but the more contemporary scenes played normal. Thats more or less how the current DVD presents it if I remember correctly, and it works wonderfully to create a nostalgic feeling to the flashbacks and seperate the two parallel stories.

My question is will the indoor-sepia/outdoor-normal palette that we see here be used? I hope not, or at least not as much. Maybe the flashbacks will be all sepia, much like the Italy scenes from the first film, but with the modern scenes adhering to only using sepia indoors (which to me is less effect than simply saving the sepia for the flashbacks). I guess we'll see if and how it changes.
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#257
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5/30/08 at 10:48pm
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike kaminski
The golden hues have been kept for the outdoor Italy sequences from the looks of things. I'm not sure what the logic there is--I guess to keep the nostalgic feel of the "old country"? I'm a little apprehensive about that because the sepia tint elsewhere is not a "nostalgia" thing, but merely a practical indoor/outdoor thing from the looks of the screengrabs, as was pointed out. But I guess this is the way its supposed to be.

Just out of curiosity - are you saying you want the film to look a different way than it did originally because that's what you're used to from DVDs that weren't really timed correctly? I've read through all these threads, and I think the experts on this film have said this new thing is the way it looked back then and the way it's supposed to look and it looks that way to my eyes from those screencaps. I don't really understand at all why anyone would think that was a bad thing. And ending your post with the begrudging "but I guess this is the way its supposed to be" is like weird. I can't wait to get this new transfer. I'm stoked.
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#258
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5/31/08 at 12:24am
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

I'm not saying it should be anything but the way it was shot, just that I find Willis' use of the sepia tint a little bit inconsistent in this respect.
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#259
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5/31/08 at 1:54am
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

I just hope that Paramount makes the right decision and releases the BD day and date with the standard DVD.
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#260
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5/31/08 at 8:07am
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrf2
I just hope that Paramount makes the right decision and releases the BD day and date with the standard DVD.

No doubt. I'm hoping that is the reason why we don't have any sort of official US release date because they are getting the blu ray up to speed. It would be the big release that blu ray really needs.
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#261
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5/31/08 at 2:50pm
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

If Paramount does the right thing and retains Gordon Willis's deep, DEEP blacks and doesn't DNR the Blu-rays of THE GODFATHER films to death, expect to hear lots of whining from certain reviewers decrying that "Shadow detail is wanting! Grain is apparent!" and similar such BS.

Vincent
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#262
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5/31/08 at 4:35pm
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent_P
If Paramount does the right thing and retains Gordon Willis's deep, DEEP blacks and doesn't DNR the Blu-rays of THE GODFATHER films to death, expect to hear lots of whining from certain reviewers decrying that "Shadow detail is wanting! Grain is apparent!" and similar such BS.

Vincent

This is why the only critics I can trust, other than those actually involved in the production of the film, are my own eyes and ears.

Natural grain structure! Oh noez!!!!!!!

STOP THE MADNESS! STOP THE BUTCHERING AND ABANDONMENT OF TV SHOWS ON DVD!

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#263
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5/31/08 at 5:20pm
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

Yeah, I find it quite hilarious when people are watching a transfer from the original negatives and they complain about grain. As if, for some reason, it should not have been shot on film or something. I'm really not sure what the actual thought process is, but its as amusing as it is frustrating.
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#264
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5/31/08 at 6:43pm
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

If The Godfather is artificially brightened and DVNR'd, I may have to go back to killin!

Seriously, though, I have to admit I'm concerned, given Paramount's tendency to overuse DVNR (ie Jack Ryan HD-DVDs, Untouchables, etc...)
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#265
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6/1/08 at 8:42am
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_D
I should have my hands on the UK DVDs in a couple of days. They won't be a final indicator of how the films will look on R1, but I doubt they'll be too far removed. I'd normally wait for the R1 but I want to see this restoration ASAP.

I am ready to order from Amaz/UK and would like to know if there are sub-titles in english for the 3 films and the extras. Somewhere I have read others would like to know what languages (other than english) AND subtitle languages are availabe.

Would appreciate anyone obtaining the UK version would also give this information. Amazon/UK gives very little info on this.
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#266
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6/2/08 at 10:36am
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

According to the packaging....

Audio: English Dolby Digital 5.1, Commentary Dolby Digital 2.0
Subtitles: English, Dutch, Swedish, Norwegian, Finnish
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#267
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6/2/08 at 10:44am
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

Godfather Part II comparison pics up:
El Padrino 2 DVD vs. El Padrino 2 - Remasterización de Coppola DVD DVD Comparativa - ZONADVD.com
Quite a bit of difference on some of these.
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#268
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6/2/08 at 4:30pm
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

Well, the PAL DVD of Part I looks superb, although I look forward to the HD release to see this tricky source material freed from the shackles of SD.

The movie has been scrupulously cleaned but the grain is firmly intact. The richer skin tones are gorgeous, as is the colour in general, and the play of light and dark inside Corleone's den comes across beautifully. Exterior shots also have a new vitality to them.

Bravo Mr Harris!
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#269
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6/3/08 at 6:51am
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

Final set of comparison pictures, this time for Godfather Part III. Even for a fairly recent film, the restoration has really improved things.
El Padrino 3 DVD vs. El Padrino 3 - Remasterización de Coppola DVD DVD Comparativa - ZONADVD.com
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#270
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6/3/08 at 7:33am
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Re: Paramount to re-do "Godfather" DVDs

I love the new look, absolutely fantastic! The strong, golden hues work so much better together with the deep blacks than the bleak tones on the old DVD. Just look at that red boutonnière and compare to the same on the old one.

And if even The Godfather is DNR'd for the Blu-ray release, I think I just might go crazy and give up on this whole movie business entirely.
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