Gentlemen, if you were born a woman...

Not anymore. I can think of a couple things such as glass ceiling and physical inferiority (strength, I wouldn't want to be a woman if a crowd got rowdy at an event), but there are many other advantages that we don't enjoy, mostly through our own faults (well, our male ancestors). I firmly believe that women have it easier in this society, especially those who realize it.


Yeah? As a non-custodial father, I promise you I would become a woman (periods and all) in a heartbeat for the natural advantage and legal rights that women enjoy with reproductive matters.


This mirrors my experience as well. And this is exactly one of the reasons they say men are so much about their ego - I suspect women will agree now that the same argument is being presented in a negative light. I simply have never seen women argue for any significant amount of time over a non practical matter.


Then you're missing one of life's greatest pleasure


That's a whole other issue that Max explained better than I ever will. the fact is, the prospect for any average women are far better than that of any average men. I know many women I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole who always have some dude hovering around them. I know quite a few such guys who couldn't get a girl to pee on them if they were on fire. OK, they could do better if they tried. Lots of guys don't. Fact is, women don't have to.

--
Holadem

Max


I completely agree with you. I also think, though, that men are looking for attractive mates in the same proportions. I still don't buy the fact that women have it easier, but I *do* think that attractive people have it easier.



Sounds good to me!



Most definitely. The only dates I got were from men I met online (with one exception).



Can't argue with you there! It's absolutely fabulous and I'd really hate to give that up.


Mark

You do have a point. Some women can really pull off the skimpy stuff but unfortunately I'm not one of them. I usually have to wear a full length dress with a girdle to look decent.

The only thing I can say that has you beat was wearing my wedding dress. OMG that think was so heavy and so hot! We're talking a fully lined matte satin dress with a 3 layer crinoline petticoat underneath, pantyhose, and a full bodice bra/cincher. Wowsers, I'll never do that again!

Holadem




I don't know, honestly, because I've found that men's idea of the "average women" to actually be a little better than average. But in any case, I find that the really attractive people tend to pair off together and the really unattractive people pair off together. That leaves everyone else in the middle (most of the "average") with a rough time finding a mate. That dude with the chick you wouldn't go near. . I'm sure most women wouldn't go near him either.

There's a lot of women who can't get dates, either. In fact I don't have many female friends anymore because I got absolutely sick and tired of hearing them make the same complaints over and over. . . "I wish I could get a boyfriend, nobody wants me. . " ad nauseum. Maybe women don't have to try so hard to get a boyfriend if they're willing to put out. If they're not, the hunt becomes exponentially more difficult.

Women don't automatically give birth once they reach a certain age. There's no way I'd let any size baby squeeze out between my legs yet I'm still female. Our society seems to equate female with mother yet there are many women who don't buy into that.

You have missed my posts concerning matters skeptical vs supernatural? I will also happily argue and fight for long long hours over a topic that is quite forbidden here. However, I will admit that I would never not carry such arguments to the physical stage, yet neither would the emotionally mature man, I would argue.

And concerning physical matters, women are at a disadvantage, yet that's what CCWs are for...
Pity that too few women take advantage of such things.


I have no idea, because in my world I'm always the one who's hot. I'm wearing short sleeves and comfortable but guys who are wearing long sleeves are complaining about the cold. I'm dying of heat stroke and I see women wearing light jackets. I can't understand it.

On a larger note, it's interesting how this discussion has defined "better life" as "better chances for a date/mate". There is more to life than that and there are more inequalities than that. I will not argue that I don't have a good life (this culture is probably the best opportunity yet to exist for women (and I'll argue for men as well)) yet I have to ask you guys - who do you think has it easier when taking a car to the mechanic? Who gets treated like a dumbass and who has a greater chance of being ripped off?

They do in West Virginia. Seriously, virtually every girl that I went to school with, seemed to have a child by the age of 25, married/attached or no.

I think I'm in love.

No, seriously, it's such a big turn off to me when it's 80 degrees outside and I see women with sweaters on and complaining of the cold. I know a few women that I never asked out because I knew that they were always cold. Having my A/C set to 65 degrees is a MUST for me and anyone who would make me turn it up to 72 would just cause me too much stress so I avoid them...which explains my single-dom.

Unless there are cases of parthenogenisis I have not heard of, I's say there has to be a man involved somewhere in the process. I'd also say that there are easy, readily available and affordable means of preventing such occurances.

I suspect lesbians have it easier than gay men.

Can you tell my arguments are getting desperate?

--
Holadem

What brings success in dating varies between men and women. There is no inherent advantage for either sex as a whole. That has to be true by definition unless the size of dating pools are not equal. I'll generalize here:

Men who are very confident and maybe cocky tend to have the most success. Money helps as well. Looks obviously help, but the above items can often work in place of looks (up to a limit of course). In this sense average to below average looking men men may have an advantage over their female counterparts, since they can cultivate their persona instead of having to rely on looks they have no control over.

Women who are attractive, happy, and good flirts have the most success. Not sure if there is much else to say.

All this stuff applies up front, in the bar, on the first date, etc. Most people have expectations beyond what I listed after that, I'm not implying everyone is shallow. I need a smart girl, myself. But the stuff above is what counts up front, unfortunatly.

Personal example: I have a couple of female friends who are more or less on the same level I am as far as looks, intelligence, ambition, etc. We're also all introverts. In this sense they have a big advantage, because I'm not cocky or assertive, which limits my options. I can get dates with the kind of women I go after, but not nearly as many as my fem friends, we're probably talking a 10:1 ratio, at least. They get asked out all day, so it's easy to accept or reject. I have to work up the courage to ask, which can be difficult.

Yes, and scientists have compared CAT scans of the brains of these women compared to the brains of normal (by normal I mean the majority who think and feel "feminine") and there seems to be a physiological difference between the two. One section of the brain is smaller in these more masculine women than in the "normal" feminine women (I'm hoping it isn't vice versa). This process of brain differentiation may have been initiated in the womb, in response to some unknown environmental stimuli, possibly as a reaction to the mother's immune response changing the hormone balance of the fetus while the brain was starting to develop.

Of course, from the research summaries and documentaries I've seen, they didn't specifically ask "Do you think all women are mothers?" but were along the lines of sexual preference, sexual identity, aggressiveness, competitiveness, and mathematical ability. It still leaves open the question of feminist propaganda overriding the global human sexual behavior conspiracy.


Ah, but when it comes to men, the research indicates that this is very important for their health and well-being. Men who are in good relationships tend to be healthier and live longer than men who are not. Women seem to be less affected by this, implying that women are more resilient than men (perhaps this could explain why women more frequently break off relationships than men).

BTW, what's a CCW? Cthulhu Carbine Weapon? Counter Clockwise Wombat? Concerned Cthulhu Worshipper? Throw me a bone here!

If I were born a woman, I wouldn't have to feel so strange about my feelings for Johnny Depp. Hell, I may have had a chance

Caveat: It is certainly possible that unhealthy men tend to get into bad relationships instead of good ones, thus cutting their life expectancy/health. Oh well.

I've been giving this thoughtful consideration over some of my best beers and come to the conclusion that the only way to REALLY get to the bottom of this is to use junk science and create an arbitrary point system whereby the results can be abused by the media and political spinners for their own purposes.

I will list the first few myself. If you can think of any more then just add them. I will pick and choose (using scientific methind only, of course) and update the score on occasion.

Men don't get periods. 10 points.
Women don't have to put up with the opposite sex having periods. 5 points.

Women know when they're going to get sex. 25 points
Men seldom get the 'wet spot' afterwords. 5 points

Men hold their liquor better: 5 points
Women get more free drinks: 10 points

Men don't have to be attractive, just rich, to get an attractive spouse: 10 points

Women have no choice but to be attractive to get an attractive spouse: 5 points for men

Women have makeup, hairdoos, clothing, etc. to make them more attractive: 10 points

Men don't get any of that, and then even go bald sometimes. 15 points for women

Women bear the pain of childbirth. 100 points for men

Men bear the pain of child support. 25 points for women

Women who choose not to be full time parents reach a glass ceiling: 5 points for men

Men who choose not to be full time breadwinners get thrown out of a glass window: 5 points points for women

Women typically look sexy naked: 5 points for women
Men typically look silly naked: 5 more points for women

Men get to act like idiots and then later just apologize for it and everything is ok. 10 points

Women get to act like a bitch and blame it on PMS without ever apoligizing. 15 points.

Women live longer: 5 points

Each sex is just as likely to attempt suicide. Men are just better at it and more likely to succeeed. +5 points for competence, -5 points for being stupid.

In a fight a man would win: 5 points
In a fight, a man would be arrested, even if he was just defending himself. 10 points for women.

Men generally have more interesting body noises. 5 points
Women have generally more interesting bodies: 5 points


So far the score is: Women:140 Men: 160

Men have to pay for sex: -20
Women get paid for sex: +20

A woman can wear her husbands clothes without any problems: +10
If a man wear his wifes clothing...well......: -20

Men don't need toilet seats: +20
Women do: -20
They also have to deal with men who don't lift them before using them: -10

Love is ALWAYS centered around the woman (i.e. Valentines gifts, Engagement rings, etc.): +30

A straight woman can say "I went to the store with my girlfriend": +5
A straight guy can't say "I went to the store with my boyfriend": -5

Men almost always have one expensive hobby: men -10
Men get bored of their hobby and take on another one: men -10

Women spend more money on clothing than men: women -10
Men have to put up with shopping with their wives: -5 for men

It is fashionable to blame men for all of society's ills: women +5
It is not fashionable anymore to expect women to live a more traditional lifestyle: women +5

A man can't be sure that his kid is genetically his: men -10

A woman who has given birth is guaranteed that her kid is genetically hers: women +10

A woman can use a DNA test to guarantee child support payments: women +5
A man can use a DNA test to avoid paying child support: men +5, but women get +5 because he will have to pay it until the results are in (then she can get child support from the REAL father).

Studies hint that girls recover from child abuse (psychological) faster than boys in childhood. That is, the girl has a higher chance of leading a more happy life than her male counterpart at adulthood: women +10

Men are more prone to illnesses than women (testosterone suppresses the immune system): women +5
Women are more likely to seek medical care for themselves: women +5
Men go out of their way to avoid seeing a doctor: men -5

Men are very good at spatial visualization: men +10
Men go out of their way to avoid asking for directions: men -10

Women have a better sense of smell and have better eyesight than men (a consequence of the ancient hunter-gatherer lifestyle, where women were the gatherers and need keen eyesight and smell to find food and avoid poisons): women +5
Women don't care if their TV has proper grayscale calibration: women -5

Women can multitask better than men (talking on cellphone, breastfeeding baby, and keeping an eye on the hapless husband all at once): women +10
Men can focus on one task and ignore distractions easily: men +10

Women hold their liquor better as they get older: women +5
Men slowly lose their ability to hold liquor as they get older: women +5 (listen up girls! )

Men love to play war and actively plan genocide: men -50
Women are unable to convince men to give up on war and genocide: women -50

Cat scans and the like are not the point. There are inescapable facets of biology such as menstruation that will happen to all women unless drastic actions are taken (surgery, hormonal treatments). It is also an inescapable fact of biology that women can't write their names in the snow. Childbirth, however, is not an inescapable fact of biology. We are able to choose and that is true whether one is 'normal' or one of "those women".

It's also called a CCP and if you recogonize neither, you're probably happier not knowing.

unless your name happens to be:

Julie, my point is that behavior is inextricably tied to biology as well. Some people just can't help but "want to be a mother" (even men with "female brains" have this desire!). There is no evidence whatsoever that teaching a girl to want to be a mother actually has any bearing on whether she really wants to be one after puberty. Same goes for boys -- putting them in frilly dresses and whatnot won't stop them from drag-racing their cars when they are 18. (Even hormone therapy can't overcome the base behaviors, because male and female brains have differing amounts of receptors for these hormones -- really fascinating stuff!)

You're obviously living proof of that. I'm pretty sure you didn't go to a school that only emphasized the evils of motherhood, just as I haven't gone to any schools that emphasized that there is anything more important than sports and picking up chicks (reinforced by peer pressure where it is supposed to be cool to be stupid -- nope, didn't affect me at all, I stuck with computers and reading books thank you very much). I very much believe I was born this way. It was not merely a matter of choice in my case (and many others I'm certain -- go ask your colleagues!)

Consider the interviews with men and women who desired to be of the opposite sex. They never felt they could choose to be the sex they were born with, but contend that they had always felt "different" from peers of the same sex. Their brains were of a different sex than their genitals.

I'm not saying you're one of these people. I haven't met you in real life, so I can't take a look at your body language and your speech patterns to hazard a guess (a CAT scan sure would be interesting -- but I don't think that would go over to well!). I can only go with what you've told us in this forum. Although, the fact you didn't mention actually bludgeoning people to death (a choice!) with a shopping cart tells me you're probably a very mild case.

[EDIT: This post is a long-winded way of saying: You can make a choice, but the reasons for your choice may be rooted in biology. For example: You see your spouse flirting with someone of the opposite sex, and you feel jealousy. You can't choose to not feel jealousy, but you can choose not to act on it in a violent way.]

In all seriousness if I were born female. I would grow up becoming the most promiscuous woman to ever live. O the things I’d do.:b

I just like the fact that most men would be a woman if they could be an attractive woman.But If they had to be an unattractive woman, or one with an image problem (hairloss, one breast, etc) they'd likely remain being a man 99/100 times.

Personally, I'd be happy to be reborn a woman. Thats another 30 years I'd have on everyone.

Soo....anyone read that not-so-good Robert Heinlein novel, "I Will Fear No Evil"?

If I would've been born a woman, I would've been the only girl in a family of 7 kids. So, I'd probably be one tough tom-boy... and not a good looking one at that.

So, my life wouldn't be much different.

Its a good thing I wasnt born a woman, I wouldnt be able to stop touching myself.

Gary,what the hell is ur sig from?



"You can't choose to not feel jealousy"

I disagree with this. It takes reprogramming but is possible.


"I'm wearing short sleeves and comfortable but guys who are wearing long sleeves are complaining about the cold. I'm dying of heat stroke and I see women wearing light jackets. I can't understand it."

In my case, Im the opposite - women are always telling me how warm I am.

"Anyways, one thing that no one has mentioned yet, is the advantage of multiple orgasms if you're a woman."

Not only women.

As far as women and looks go, Ive found people become better or worse looking as you get to know them.Of course looks are usuallt the the first thing to attract you to someone - but not always. Ive noticed women becuase of their smile,body language,the way they hold a fork,hair,mannerisms,lots of different things.

Looks arent really important to me next to a sense of humor and more important - her ability to cook(justkidding ).

(My friend once said when I had a 2 girl crisis -"Which one has the most meat on her? Thats the one you want. It means she eats.If she doesnt cook, her parents probably do. Simplicity son, simplicity.")He was doing extra shifts at the time and had a G/F who didnt cook and was tired of pizza.

I thought the punchline to "If I was born a woman" was: I'd never leave the house.

What Jon said.


Not true in West Virginia...and Kentucky.




Depends on who.

With a few exceptions, the rules of engagement are looks will get you in the door, personality and other traits will keep you in the house. Of course, that makes me wonder why guys keep bitches for girlfriends and gals keep bastards for boyfriends. Or it could just be a complaining thing.

Considering the bullshit either of the sexes go through, I'll take the bs a man puts up with than what a woman puts up with. to all women out there that are hanging in there.

Oh yeah, I don't care if you're man, woman, or beast: stay out of my kitchen.

I don't know where you get your data, but it is wrong. Perhaps REPORTED violent crime. Around here women are regularly victims of domestic abuse. Reporting does no good because the police won't do anything until you are killed.

Employment opportunities for women are far less, as are pay scales. Prejudice is rampant.

Women are not taken seriously when lodging serious complaints, pretty much anywhere.

Women get stuck looking after the kids when the deadbeat dad decides a younger, less encumbered woman suits his lifestyle better.

Women are expected not only to be able to manage a career, but also play maid and mommy at home, then take care of their partner's needs. Guys bitch after a round of golf.

Men don't have to endure childbirth or menstruation.

The list is endless.

There is no way in hell I would want to be a woman in today's society.

"Employment opportunities for women are far less, as are pay scales. Prejudice is rampant."

Depends on the job. Here women bosses and managers are everywhere and they all make 6 figures.


"Women are not taken seriously when lodging serious complaints, pretty much anywhere."

I find the opposite.


"Women get stuck looking after the kids when the deadbeat dad decides a younger, less encumbered woman suits his lifestyle better."

(I shouldnt get started on this one). Sure lots of men leave for whatever reason, but how many leave BECAUSE of the wife.Was the woman unsupportive, did she let herself go physically - yet expect you to find her attraactive, is she mentally abusive, became frigid,doesnt communicate,does she use sex as a weapon to get what she wants, is she and unreasonable and selfish in her materialistic wants, etc. Its easy to blame the man.

BTW, a real man will take care of his children, I dont care if he has to work 4 jobs. It was his decision to leave (for whatever reason)and you have children to support.


"Women are expected not only to be able to manage a career, but also play maid and mommy at home, then take care of their partner's needs. Guys bitch after a round of golf."

True, a single mother life is no picnic, but women often want their children. Its their choice. I know men in child sharing situations, but if a woman decides she wants custody then she shouldnt complain about it. Its dad obligations to help her as well.Ive also known many cases (including my mother)where the women will use the children against the father, doing whatever she can to keep dad away physically while getting everything she can financially.When she doesnt get what she wants, she used the children as leverage.
And the strain for men to come up with $$ can be just as stressful.I know men who pay 1/2 their incomes to ex wife and child support and neither makes alot of money.

In fact ,Id argue the oppossite for women who remarry.Their lives become easier.

Obviously many violent crimes can go unreported -- but murder can't, and as was pointed out earlier in the thread, murder victims are overwhelmingly male.

Regardless, it is easier to be a man. Sure, I'd like to be a woman -- for about two weeks. I'd much rather be Bernard-Henri Levy -- for about two years. (He's a philosopher who lives with Arielle Dombasle). But all in all, being me is just fine.

Ted

It does indeed depend on the job. But the facts are indisputable: women make less than men (overall) and there is a paucity of female corporate officers—especially when compared to the number of women in the company.

Come on we all know that’s more accurate, which of course says a lot about our society in general.

Edit: I see someone basically already pointed that out. Next time I'll read the entire thread before posting.