*** Official "IDENTITY" Discussion Thread

#61

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4/27/03 at 11:15pm

Matt Stone
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Quote:

Identity (A) is the smartest & chilling slasher film (since Psycho)

I can understand liking it, but that may be a bit of an overstatment.

#62

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4/27/03 at 11:23pm

Arman
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Even if Dan saw only one or two films so far this year, he is entitled to express his opinion here. Not only that, we should respect his opinion. As a person who both saw & loved the well made Phone Booth and Identity, I can understand his frustrations. Whether you like it or not, Phone Booth and Identity, in our opinion are both well made. They are not as good as City of God or Nowhere in Africa but they are way way over & above much better than most films released this year so far like Kangaroo Jack or Bringing Down The Craps or How To Lose Your Temper watching a film like Darkness Falls.

I'm very sure that you are not going to be happy when somebody here will tell you that you have to watch all the 100,000 movies made before you can declare that Citizen Kane (or whatever is the greatest film in your opinion is) is the greatest film of all-time.

#63

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4/27/03 at 11:27pm

Arman
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"I can understand liking it, but that may be a bit of an overstatment."

Oh well, once again, it's my opinion which is based on my lifetime moviegoing experiences. I respect your opinion, if you feel that way.

#64

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4/28/03 at 12:16am

Alex Spindler
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Never said they were.

Sorry Steve, I was culling that from a number of people.

#65

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4/28/03 at 12:24am

John Thomas
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I'm assuming that spoilers are perfectly acceptable in this thread since it is a discussion thread. So with that out of the way, I'll get back on topic. (hint hint)

What would've been nice if they placed the scenes with the judge and the actual killer later on into the movie. I feel that this would've drawn me into the characters just a bit more and it would've been more of a shock/twist/what have you. And yes, the last 10-15 minutes were weak, to say the least.

It managed a 6½/10 from me, which is the score that I give movies that are matinee movies. For reference, usually it has to be a 7½ or better for a DVD purchase.

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#66

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4/28/03 at 12:35am

Matt Stone
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Arman,
I'm not trying to debate the validity of our opinions...I'm just expressing mine. If you read my early posts in this thread, you'll see that while I didn't fully enjoy the film, I'm very happy that some did.

I also agree that while (IMO) the film faulters in it's last act, it isn't a throwaway film. That's why I'm spending so much time discussing it.

#67

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4/28/03 at 1:24am

Arman
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"I'm not trying to debate the validity of our opinions...I'm just expressing mine."

Matt,

I know, that's why I mentioned even you don't agree with my opinion, I respect it & you are very free to express it.

But here's the facts & just for fun , I declared, my 2 cents - Identity is the smartest & chilling slasher film (since Psycho).

Okay, I'm not trying to validate my opinion but here's what I know & had seen:

Psycho was shown on 1960.

IMHO, Identity is smarter & chilling than

Kubrick's The Shining (1980) - Is this really a slasher film which is considered by many (not me) as masterpiece. The Shining is a very good film but IMHO, Identity is smarter than The Shining. I gave The Shining a grade of B+.
Scary Movie series (2000, 2001 ... 3 & 4 coming on 2003/4)
Shallow Grave (1994) - I love this movie (A-). But I think Identity beats it.
American Psycho (2000)
Psycho (1998)
a lot of "Psycho copycat/craps (1965-1995)
a lot of "Scream" scraps (1980-1998)
Scream series (1996, 1997, 2000)
Final Destination series (2000, 2003)
John Woo's Die xue jie tou (1990)
I Know What You Did Last Summer (1997)
The Devils Own (1997)
The Beach (2000)
Macbeth (1971)
Black Christmas (1974)
and hundreds of other slasher flicks that I saw after Hitchcock's Psycho.

Note: I'm not sure if you can say that another Hitchcock Birds (1963) is a slasher film but then I would still say that Identity is the smarter film.

Honestly, maybe you are right, I could had made an overstatement. We can all make mistakes. I've been trying to recall any slasher film(s) that I saw after 1960 that were much smarter/better than Identity. Can you name some more slasher films made after 1960 that you think I would find them much smarter & chilling than Identity? (Of course, you can name a lot of them since you are not that impressed with Identity. j/k

)

#68

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4/28/03 at 1:24am

Justin_S
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The statement that people who declare this film the best of the year need to see more films is rather annoying if you ask me. Everyone has a different opinion, and not everyone is going to like the same thing. You are also assuming that people who say that IDENTITY is the best haven't seen the so called "better" films that you speak of, when they very well may have. I have seen PHONE BOOTH, and while I loved the hell out of that film, IDENTITY is still better if you ask me. I also finally saw CITY OF GOD a few days ago, and while definately a great film, I still thought IDENTITY was better. IDENTITY is definately the best of 2003 so far if you ask me, and I doubt a film that I think is better will come along this year. I could be wrong, but that is how great I thought this film truly was.

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#69

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4/28/03 at 1:58am

Arman
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Eureka! Are the great samurai films of Akira Kurosowa (Ran, - 1985, Yojimbo - 1961, Sanjuro - 1962 are all equally or much more smarter & chilling than Identity.) can be considered slasher flicks?

#70

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4/28/03 at 2:51am

Matt Stone
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I don't necesarily disagree with your reasoning, Arman...In general I just wait longer than 3 days before I start in with the historical comparissons. Please don't think that I was taking a shot at your personally...I just thought it was a little too soon to compare a new film to countless films made over the last 40+ years.

I can say that I like Halloween quite a bit more than Identity. I even like Scream 1 and 2 better...but less for their slasher value and more for their horror genre in-jokes. I also give credit for the Scream films for changing the horror genre. Actually you could almost go back to Wes Craven's New Nightmare as a changing of the gaurd in making horror films more self-referential. I'm not exactly happy with the films that Scream has brought to the fore-front (ie, I Know What You Did..., etc), but I think it does deserve credit for giving a shock the the genre.

As for Identity...it has a lot going for it. The gag just doesn't work on me.

Justin,
As I've said many times in this thread...I'm glad you (collective fans) liked it. To explain my reasoning (as well as Chmiel's I'm assuming) to the "see more movies" comment. I wouldn't read a critic that only saw 10 films a year, because I would feel that he doesn't have the film knowledge to effectively rate films and/or compare films to other films. That's not to say that his opinion isn't a valid one, it's just that it would be a little hard to take for me.

#71

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4/28/03 at 4:06am

Jake Johnson
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I thought Identity was very well done. Yeah, there were plot holes, but remember something...It's all in his head! Like a dream! Since when do any of your dreams (what you remember of them) pay attention to every detail? I gave the movie a B+...It could have mustered an A. I felt that the ending was a bit cheesey. The part with Mr. Tough Guy walking away from the car exploding made me chuckle. I even saw it a second time to see if the movie still held up...and it did. This is my second best of 2003 so far...Behind Phone Booth. Holes is #3. I was kind of hoping that Trumpy from Pod People would be the killer. Just a dream...

Jake J.
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#72

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4/28/03 at 4:55am

Patrick Sun
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Well, you can look at a film like "Identity" as an indictment on the insanity/MPD defense, meaning, you just never know what's really going on in the head of mentally disturbed people who commit heinous crimes. How does a psychiatrist know which dominant personality is truly in charge, and how do you know when the personalities have merged into a more cohesive identity that can grasp the horrific nature of their crimes, or even cares about their actions which have landed them in jail or on death row?

It makes me want to go watch "Primal Fear" all over again...

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#73

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4/28/03 at 9:02am

DAN NEIR
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Primal Fear was an excellent film that year but then again maybe I need to go back and see all the films that came out in all the countries that year so that I can expand my film knowledge and effectively rate this film as well.

#74

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4/28/03 at 9:34am

JonS
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As someone who tries to see all movies that are supposed to be any good, and it can be very hard living where I do, maybe it makes me qualified to say that this is indeed the very best film of 2003.

City of God was a masterpiece and Nowhere in Africa wasn't bad either, both films count as 2002 though, but Identity was also a masterpiece.

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#75

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4/28/03 at 10:03am

Hunter P
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Primal Fear was an excellent film that year but then again maybe I need to go back and see all the films that came out in all the countries that year so that I can expand my film knowledge and effectively rate this film as well.

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#76

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4/28/03 at 10:08am

Matt Stone
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Quote:

Primal Fear was an excellent film that year but then again maybe I need to go back and see all the films that came out in all the countries that year so that I can expand my film knowledge and effectively rate this film as well.

I just can't win, can I

Don't dismiss my entire post with sarcasm. We should really argue the film on it's merits, not on the validity of our own opinions. That is to say, you can say that Identity is the best film so far, this year until you are blue in the face (and vice versa for myself), but I'm not going to buy it (nor will you buy my opinion).

#77

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4/28/03 at 2:49pm

Steve_Tk
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The real question is was this movie better than Kung Pow: Enter the Fist?

#78

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4/28/03 at 3:19pm

Alex Spindler
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Well Steve, I haven't heard the official word from the AFI on this, but it just might.

#79

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4/28/03 at 6:03pm

Andrew Schwarz
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Someone mentioned this above, and it was something that I was thinking about during the movie. Was Jake Busey
Warning Spoiler! Click to show

really supposed to be the kid's biological father?

#80

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4/28/03 at 6:59pm

John Thomas
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Hey! Guys! How about chilling out with this urination contest and getting back on topic? Thanks.

Andrew, that's the impression I got as well. (Btw, I'm assuming that spoilers are fine since this is (supposed to be) a discussion thread.

Another way that I saw it is that Busey's character (Robert Maine) was the violent part of his psyche that fathered the successor to carry on the line of hate/murder/etc.

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#81

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4/28/03 at 8:16pm

Tim Glover
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I just gave this film one star out of four in the Review thread. In this kind of movie, the filmakers take a chance on the gag. And it either works or it doesn't. For me it was just a big downer. There were some good moments and Cusack was very good as usual. But it falls apart and when it does, does so in a way that quickly pisses you off.

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#82

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4/28/03 at 9:12pm

Doug R
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I can't believe someone said Identity is a better slasher film then Kubrick's The Shining.

I am sad.

#83

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4/28/03 at 9:54pm

David Lawson
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On the bright side, at least no one has said that Darkness Falls is better than The Shining.

Yet.

He obviously misinterpreted what it means to "be bullish."

#84

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4/29/03 at 4:42am

Arman
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"I can't believe someone said Identity is a better slasher film then Kubrick's The Shining.

I am sad."

I am not bothered at all and will never be even if I will be the only person in the world who would say that with convictions.

Seriously, you just have to believe that there are films that you thought are great are not that good for some people in the same way that some films that did'nt work for you are things of beauty for some.

That's the way it is. Let's all celebrate

that this world has people who think, see & interpret things in a lot of different ways. I hate Darkness Falls (F) but let's hope that there are not that many people who will make the poster who said this "On the bright side, at least no one has said that Darkness Falls is better than The Shining." sad.

#85

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4/29/03 at 9:30am

Holadem
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So in conclusion, opinions about film are very objective and constant bickering about other's serves no purpose? You learn something new everyday.

Quote:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Identity (A) is the smartest & chilling slasher film (since Psycho)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can understand liking it, but that may be a bit of an overstatment.

This is why threads like these degenrerate. I had infinitely more fun watching Indentity than Psycho (which happens to be on my not so great classics list), even though Hitch is one of my favs. Yay, I said Hitch was one of my favs, my opinion just became more valid. Oh, I liked the Shining too and zooooooooomm, I just gained a few more credibility points. Last, I love sad movies with cryptic mid-sentence endings. Go me.

--
Holadem

#86

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4/29/03 at 1:49pm

Arman
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Holadem, exactly! I am actually happy for you that you had much more enjoyable time watching Identity than to what I thought is a masterpiece & superior film Psycho (A+).

To gain some credibility points

, for the record, in the 2003 Film List & S & S Greatest Films Club threads, I gave The Shining a very respectable A- then downgraded it to B+ grade. And don't forget that Hitchcok & Kubrick are two of my all-time favorite directors. But in my mind & standard, Identity (A) is a better film than The Shining.

#87

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4/29/03 at 8:30pm

Nate Anderson
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I also agree...if they had established Malcolm better, the ending would have worked so much better. As it is, it's an interesting twist and give a new perspective on the rest of the film, but It just doesn't work as well as it should in the film as presented.

What I find staggering is this movie is written by the same guy that wrote "Jack Frost", that terrible movie about the killer snowman.

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#88

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4/29/03 at 9:07pm

Matt Stone
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Quote:

This is why threads like these degenrerate.

I think this may be the first time that I caused the degeneration of a thread

...I'm so proud I could cry.

Seriously though...I thought that comment leaded to some good discussion. Arman gave his reasoning on why he believes it to be the best thriller/slasher since Psycho, and I explained why I don't make historical comparisons early.

#89

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4/30/03 at 1:30am

Cary T
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*Contain spoilers*

Just saw Identity tonight. Funny thing during the middle of the movie I joked to my friend, "it's the kid." I thought the kid thing at the end was pretty lame. But overall I enjoyed Identity. I'm just a sucker for Cusack movies

#90

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4/30/03 at 1:59am

John CW
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Argh??? I wrote a whole huge post for this thread and it seems to have disappeared?!?

Bummer!

I was really interested to know where people "got it" (if they did before it was revealed.
Warning Spoiler! Click to show

I got it when the killer turned up at his hearing... I said to my friend next to me "they're all personalities in his head" and then immediately regretted it because I thought I'd spoilt the film for him... Luckily he misheard me!

Anyhoo, in my last post I listed all the clues I got that gave it away... there's actually quite alot! Jake Buse running away from the motel TO the motel... The "who am I talking to now" line during the credits. And many more.

Still, a really great film!!

~ John

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