*** Official "IDENTITY" Discussion Thread

#31

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4/26/03 at 10:50pm

DAN NEIR
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I don't understand the opinion of those who stopped caring because unless you are watching a documentary, no characters in movies are real, but you care about them anyway, whether they exist in animation, are set in the past, some one's mind or set in the future in a galaxy far far away. It shouldn't make a difference.
I don't think the film makers had to spell every single thing out in regards to why he had MPD. Did the film makers ever tell us why Lector did what he did? It was fairly obvious that some traumatic event or events occured that shattered his psyche. Did this really have to be explained? If you're looking for a clue, I believe John C Mc Ginly's character said that he was the boy's step dad and that his real dad had to go away because of his temper. You could deduce from that that maybe he was abused by his father. I don't feel this was necessary to the plot though.
You don't need a high IQ to enjoy a movie but it helps.

(And for God's sake if the smiley face isn't hint enough, it's just a joke.)

#32

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4/26/03 at 11:16pm

Matthew Chmiel
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Quote:

You don't need a high IQ to enjoy a movie but it helps.

(And for God's sake if the smiley face isn't hint enough, it's just a joke.)

Why I ought to kill you, you son of a...

Quote:

but you care about them anyway, whether they exist in animation, are set in the past, some one's mind or set in the future in a galaxy far far away

Yes, you could care about them if they're in animation or set in the past or what not. But the problem is, when you find out these characters are not even real and were created by some freakish murderer, what's the point? Why I wouldn't go so far by calling it a "cop-out," it's just sort of a let down to what was a good movie.

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Did this really have to be explained?

Yes. If we're supposed to care for these characters (or character), shed some light.

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you're looking for a clue, I believe John C Mc Ginly's character said that he was the boy's step dad and that his real dad had to go away because of his temper.

Yes, but what about the other characters in the film. Who and/or what are they supposed to represent? And as I said earlier, WHY is he having these multiple personalities? WHAT caused him to have multiple personalities in the double digits? Some stuff is explained, some is not.

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#33

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4/26/03 at 11:35pm

Matt Stone
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I agree with Chmiel on this one 100%. Especially regarding more development for the killer. I would have cared about him more had I know why he had those specific personalities.

I was thinking that the film would have worked better if it had shown both "realities" in equal screen-time. They could inter-cut with longer scenes of the killer and his shrink to shed more light on his character. Unfortunately, the film would have been insanely long at that point...but I really think I would have cared more about the fictional characters had I understood the killer's reasons for them.

#34

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4/26/03 at 11:43pm

Doug Miller
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Just a few thoughts:

- I guess this was really more of a Psycho times 10, eh? Killings in a hotel, all done with a split personality. No, I'm not comparing this to Psycho in terms of merit or anything, just an off hand comment.

- I can't help but think that this was one of those movies that had multiple endings. I guarantee the Director's Cut will be something to the effect of "See _____ as the killer" for about 4 of the main characters. Hell, they should have pulled a "Clue" and had it be 1 of 4 different people for each movie. There was so much misdirection in the movie, that you could put the "blame" on any of the last few characters. I still expected the killer to be Amanda Peet personally because 1) She's so damn hot, and 2) Whatever happened to her John's? I would have loved to see her in the orange grove with a flash back to her killing/torturing her customer for his possessions. (Taking after his/her mother.) Pan over to the barn outside the house and see the owner dead, and end with a bad guy in the car grinning, roll credits.

Doug

#35

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4/26/03 at 11:45pm

Matthew Chmiel
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Quote:

Unfortunately, the film would have been insanely long at that point...but I really think I would have cared more about the fictional characters had I understood the killer's reasons for them.

The film is 87 minutes long.

It took 20 minutes to make the film worse than the previous great 67 minutes.

If they would've added 15-30 additional minutes with Malcolm and Alfred Molina, the film's running time would've only been 102-117 minutes. Not insanely long.

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#36

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4/27/03 at 12:05am

DAN NEIR
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To quote Samuel L Jackson in Pulp Fiction, "That's an interesting point."
Other personalities emerged to deal with different aspects of his life, when a person develops this disorder there are always more than one or two personalities that come forth. I guess I had no problem accepting this because I had seen it done so many times before in film and in books.
Well at least give the film this much credit, it's got us all talking about it.

#37

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4/27/03 at 2:40am

Matt Stone
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Quote:

Well at least give the film this much credit, it's got us all talking about it.

Indeed

Quote:

If they would've added 15-30 additional minutes with Malcolm and Alfred Molina, the film's running time would've only been 102-117 minutes. Not insanely long.

I honestly didn't know the run-time and wasn't paying attention to how long it was when I saw it...but with that knowledge, your definitely right, it wouldn't have been insanely long. I think they really could have made a better film with ~20 more minutes.

#38

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4/27/03 at 7:16am

JonZ
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"I would have been disappointed if the guy just made peace with himself after all that"

This is my point. Since there are already spoilers here,I'll just say it:

Like most I suspected Ray Liotta and then kid after the woman died just after he'd walked into the room.

But the last minute of the film suprised me(the kid showing up at the Orange Grove) and I loved the quick shots showing how the Kid personality masterminded it all.

After all that,the one personality they tried to get rid of ends up being the one who survives. I also liked how it ended with the car escape which resembled the one in the dream with Liotta and Busey.

Until the car bomb I thought I was watching a pretty well made slasher(which is RARE), so the revelation that they were just personalities was kind of disappointing and I agree that u stop caring about the characters after that.

#39

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4/27/03 at 8:14am

David Lawson
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Warning Spoiler! Click to show

I don't think the comparison to The Usual Suspects is fair, given that Keyser/Verbal presented himself as a character that was involved in the story itself (and, indeed, he was, since some of the story was factual...remember the burned-out boat in the harbor?).

As others have mentioned, Identity's problem is that you feel no sympathy for Rivers because you aren't asked to feel sympathy for him until he "wakes up", at which point it's far too late, since you've already invested so much time developing sympathy for the characters who suddenly don't exist. Really, what's left to care about?

And why should I care about a man who can't even imagine one nude scene for Amanda Peet?

He obviously misinterpreted what it means to "be bullish."

#40

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4/27/03 at 9:20am

Alex Spindler
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I'll stand by my comparison. In an interesting way to think about it, you don't have to care for the killer. But what you can care about is who the remaining dominant personality is within the character. One of the people that had been shown at the hotel had killed several people in the real world. The only way to punish him by conventional standards is to kill all the remaining "innocent" personalities, which are presented as fully realized people.

I also think you'll find the intro covered all of the information that you're looking for on the killer. If I am recalling it correctly, it identified abuse as a child and maybe also had a mention of a prostitute mother (which helps explain the hotel manager's distaste for prostitutes - the personality developed to deal with his thoughts about his mother).

I would also disagree that much more should have been shown regarding the killer. If you show it too early, you dispel any chance of keeping the people as personalities thread alive as long as they did. If you show it too late, you bore people with an a drawn-out and anticlimactic ending that just over explains things too much (a complaint many of us have with movies today).

What can I say? I loved the movie, and I did care for the personalities. I cared about the loving mother, the nervous dad who gets called into dangerous situations and runs things by the numbers, the opportunist manager who deals with guilty activities, and the angry child who carries all the rage. All of them had their own roles but I wanted the redemptive personality to have final control. I didn't care much about the "shell", but rather what would be left within it.

#41

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4/27/03 at 12:54pm

Mikel_Cooperman
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This is better than half the movies Hollywood puts out.
Would people have really liked it if it were a standard Hollywood slasher movie?

The only thing I didnt like is:

Warning Spoiler! Click to show

how the guys suddenly got stupid and opened the devide between them and the guy in the back.
Then it turned into a shaking fan and than a Michael Myers ending.

Still one of the better movies Ive seen this year.

I didnt recognize Rebecca for a long time. She looked really different.

#42

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4/27/03 at 1:26pm

Holadem
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Quote:

When Ginny's head is found in the dryer, a woman in the row in front me was so scared that she yelped and jumped out of her seat. Scenes like that are almost worth the price of admission.

I totally agree, some girl next to me litterally grabbed my hand on the arm rest during one of those scenes! She let go after about a second, with profuse apologies, I told her I didn't mind

I had a lot of fun watching this one, I gave it 3 1/2 star out of 4. The twist didn't work very much for me either, I entirely agree with those who felt they didn't care after it was revealed. However, the first 2/3 of the movie were really creepy, that is enough for me! Good stuff, guarantied purchase.

Amanda Peet is hot. My goodness. Stragely enough, her nude scenes in the Whole Nine Yards left me cold. Hmmm...

--
Holadem

#43

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4/27/03 at 1:31pm

Holadem
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.

#44

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4/27/03 at 3:38pm

Matt Stone
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Quote:

This is better than half the movies Hollywood puts out.

You're right, but I don't rate films on how "not bad" they are. It wins points for some originality (although I'm still convinced it's just a rip-off of Donald Kaufman's fictional script for The Three: "The killer, the girl, and the cop all have split-personalities! They're all the same person! Isn't that fucked up? ").

I like this film a lot more that I hate it, but the ending is the last thing I remember, so I'm having a hard time remembering the first two thirds.

#45

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4/27/03 at 4:17pm

Steve_Tk
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Quote:

I don't understand the opinion of those who stopped caring because unless you are watching a documentary, no characters in movies are real, but you care about them anyway, whether they exist in animation, are set in the past, some one's mind or set in the future in a galaxy far far away. It shouldn't make a difference.

Because the whole movie is with these characters. They do a good job at developing them and getting the audience drawn to them. Then they show some fat psycho who is crazy, we find out that the characters are just in his head.

I don't know why it happened, but after I found that out I lost all interest. Like when Liota was after Pete, and Cusack killed him, all of it didn't matter to me at all, I had lost all emotional attachment whatsoever and was ready for it to be over. Plus they did a terrible job of passing that attachment to fat psycho, so you really don't care what happens to him either. I was rooting for the electric chair so they could fry him and all his friends in his head.

#46

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4/27/03 at 5:30pm

Matthew Chmiel
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This is better than half the movies Hollywood puts out.

If this is better than half the movies Hollywood is putting out, I weep for the future. In all honesty, I would prefer a basic run of the mill slasher than a slasher trying to be cool with a twist that makes little sense. Look at Final Destination 2. Your "basic run of the mill" slasher, but was fun as it never took itself seriously. It's too bad Identity couldn't be taken seriously after that plot twist.

And whoever says "Well this is the best film of 2003 so far," needs to simply see more movies. There are much better films out there deserving of money (Better Luck Tomorrow, City of God, Bend It Like Beckham, Gerry, Phone Booth, A Mighty Wind, the list goes on and on) than this atrocity.

Quote:

I was rooting for the electric chair so they could fry him and all his friends in his head.

I agree, but I would've preferred it if Holmes Osborne pulled out a gun and told him to "suck a fuck" and put some lead into his head (not only did I make a Donnie Darko reference, but I rhymed).

Quote:

(although I'm still convinced it's just a rip-off of Donald Kaufman's fictional script for The Three: "The killer, the girl, and the cop all have split-personalities! They're all the same person! Isn't that fucked up? ").

When I was talking to my friend earlier today, I told him Identity was awful, and he said, "Yeah, I saw The Three the other night."

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#47

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4/27/03 at 7:52pm

David Lawson
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I apologize for the spoiler...but, really, is there anyone who frequents the Movies section who hasn't seen The Usual Suspects?

Chmiel, I respectfully disagree with Better Luck Tomorrow being more deserving of my money. I'm 0-2 this weekend, as far as I'm concerned. I should have gone to see City Of God twice more instead.

He obviously misinterpreted what it means to "be bullish."

#48

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4/27/03 at 7:56pm

Steve_Tk
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I in no way would compare this to US, but I was disappointed with it too. I knew it was Spacey the whole time, don't ask me why, and I have no clue why either. But for the whole movie I just knew it was him, that's why I didn't enjoy it.

Same thing happened for me with the Sixth Sense. I knew he was dead, therefore I really did not enjoy the movie that much.

But I know that the majority of people love those movies and I'm not saying they are bad.

#49

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4/27/03 at 7:57pm

Matt Stone
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Quote:

And whoever says "Well this is the best film of 2003 so far," needs to simply see more movies.

Amen.

...also, good Donnie Darko reference

#50

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4/27/03 at 8:17pm

DAN NEIR
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Let me repeat, "Best movie I've seen this year, so far"
I saw Phone Booth, like it, but this was better. The rest of those movies, never heard of them and have no interest in seeing them. But hey, if you say those flicks are good maybe I'll check them out on cable someday.

#51

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4/27/03 at 8:32pm

Matthew Chmiel
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Quote:

The rest of those movies, never heard of them and have no interest in seeing them.

Well maybe you should find some information about them and maybe you'll get interest in seeing them. Indie and foreign films are most of the time better than the movies Hollywood puts out, it's proven fact.

Quote:

I apologize for the spoiler...but, really, is there anyone who frequents the Movies section who hasn't seen The Usual Suspects?

Or who hasn't seen Scary Movie.

Steve, you could say the same about the plot twists in both those films (Usual Suspects and Sixth Sense), but at least both plot twists were more developed and more thought was put into them unlike the plot twist in Identity. They just weren't thrown at the viewer.

Quote:

Chmiel, I respectfully disagree with Better Luck Tomorrow being more deserving of my money.

I didn't see it yet (I ended up seeing Identity instead... grr), but it can't be that bad. It does have the MILF guy in it, and everything he is in is great.

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#52

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4/27/03 at 9:08pm

Matt Stone
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Dan,
You should probably see more films before you bust out the "best film of the year" endorsement. I have only seen eight 2003 theatrical releases so far, and there is no way I would start talking about the best film of the year...because I just haven't seen enough films yet.

#53

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4/27/03 at 9:20pm

Alex Spindler
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They just weren't thrown at the viewer.

I obviously won't be able to sway your opinion, but there was excellent foundation for the MPD. The parallel storyline with the prisoner, the motel that doubles back in on itself. The same birthdays. The marking of the deaths. The personalities themselves being so archetypal.

From a foundation standpoint, this movie's twist is as solid as
Warning Spoiler! Click to show

Fight Club, Usual Suspects, and The Sixth Sense

IMO.

#54

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4/27/03 at 9:24pm

Greg Ambrose
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Well, I saw this one too and I am just not clear on how things took place. Apparently, the killer was sentenced to die for events that took place just a few years ago, when he was an adult, so there appeared to be some time-jumbling going on in his head, which kind of makes sense if the reason he has multiple personalities comes from his childhood. But what I don't get is - were the ten people the ones he actually killed, and was in prison for? If so, what was the actual cause of these personalities popping up? Why these ten? On the other hand, were the events of the movie the events that traumatized him enough to cause the other personalities to come out? I kind of lean to that one but if so - who did he end up killing and sentenced to death for? I am completely turned around on this, but then again that's just probably my low IQ holding me back again.

#55

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4/27/03 at 9:29pm

Tom Rags
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OK, so one question. WHO THE HELL did Malcolm kill to deserve the death penalty? WHO? If these are all people in his head, then there were no victims. Was it "Larry," the guy they found in the freezer at the hotel?

That is my biggest beef with this movie. We never know who this guy killed. Do we?

#56

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4/27/03 at 9:49pm

Matt Stone
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No, Tom...we don't. But it's not really important to the story. The murders we do see are only playing out in his head, they have no direct bearing on the murders that he's convicted of.

#57

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4/27/03 at 9:51pm

Alex Spindler
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He killed several (nine seems to come to mind) real people at a different motel in the real world. At the time he was killing them, Timothy (the boy) was in control. We are shown photos of them in the intro and during the trial (the bloody photos are of people totally different from any at the motel). Everything we see within the motel setting involves only personalities in his head.

Hope that helps.

#58

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4/27/03 at 10:09pm

Steve_Tk
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Quote:

They just weren't thrown at the viewer.

Never said they were.

#59

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4/27/03 at 10:13pm

Arman
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Not much to add in current discussion but here's my two cents (cut & pasted from my post inthe Identity review thread) -

Identity (A) is the smartest & chilling slasher film (since Psycho) with the most clever & original ending which is not really unpremeditated neither it's a tricky twist to fool the audience. Here's hoping Identity is no fluke and that James Mangold will be the 21st century's Alfred Hitchcock and he will make this type of films in the future. Hopefully, he will replace those directors who are making those cliche & stupid films like I Know What You Did Last Summer/Scream/Darkness Falls/Final Destination/Slasher Crap series.

#60

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4/27/03 at 10:42pm

DAN NEIR
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Let me repeat for a third time since there seems to be some confusion, "best film I've seen this year, SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!!"
The year is far from over and I know I will see many movies but SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR this has been the best picture I've seen this year.
Any questions???
Indie films are really not my cup of tea, I tend to not see films that deal with reality or real life situations on a whole. I'm more of the go to the movies and escape reality type as opposed to for example "the griping and heart wrenching tale of a family and their struggle to cope w/ the loss of a loved one or the tale of 4 friends and the summer that changed their lives" type movies. That's not to say there aren't alot of great indie films but again I really won't be moved to go see those flicks.

I just went over to imdb.com and looked over the summary of some of those films and I can honestly say I would have no interest at all in seeing any of those films.
It maybe my loss, but again not my cup of tea.

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