*** Official "IDENTITY" Discussion Thread

#1

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4/25/03 at 3:03pm

Robert Crawford
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This thread is now designated the Official Discussion Thread for "Identity" please, post all comments, links to outside reviews, film and box office discussion items to this thread.

All HTF member film reviews of "Identity" should be posted to the Official Review Thread.

Thank you for your consideration in this matter.

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#2

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4/25/03 at 3:11pm

Matt Stone
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I was really excited about this film, but in the end it was pretty contrived.

It actually reminded me a lot of Donald Kaufman's "The Three"

#3

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4/25/03 at 4:07pm

Matt Stone
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Warning Spoiler! Click to show

Quote:

The ending with it turning out that everyone was just some psycho's multiple personalities getting killed off by another of the personalities is one of the best and most unexpected twists I've seen in ages, and its truly awesome and original!

Not to turn this into the discussion thread...but I called that about 30 minutes in. It wasn't exactly one of the most unexpected twists I've ever seen.

That being said, I'm glad you liked it. I was really into it until the last 30 min or so.

#4

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4/25/03 at 4:34pm

Jordan_E
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I read about the spoiler somewhere online about a month ago and thought at the time how could they pull this off, but from reading various things today it seems like they didn't pull it off. Still going to go see it this weekend, as it still looks interesting to me.

And you believe, at heart, everyone's a killer...

#5

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4/25/03 at 5:32pm

David Lawson
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I agree with Matt. I was somewhat into the story (and hoping against hope, since I also had a feeling about what lay ahead) until the twist is revealed, at which point it's difficult to care what happens to any of the characters. And, in typical Hollywood fashion, the twist is then carried one step too far.

He obviously misinterpreted what it means to "be bullish."

#6

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4/25/03 at 5:44pm

Eric Wood
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I enjoyed the flick, until the last 15 minutes. It's almost as if they a timeline, and it only went to 90 min

Maybe the DVD will have the director's cut

#7

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4/25/03 at 5:59pm

JonS
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This wasn't your average Hollywood twist ending. This film actually got better as it went on. Without a doubt this is the best film released this year so far. I guess I could be cool too and say that I called it, but it really doesn't matter. It was such a great ending, that it didn't matter that I saw it coming.

Zombie New Human!

#8

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4/25/03 at 7:07pm

Matt Stone
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Hey...don't jump down my throat. I said that I'm happy if you liked it...but understand that I didn't. I agree with others that it was really hard to care for the characters once we knew that they didn't exist on a physical plane.

Also, there is a typical Hollywood twist ending. If they had left it at simple multiple personalities with Paris living out a quiet life as an Orange farmer, it would have been salvageable. As is, they show that the bad guy wasn't really Liotta's character after all...it was a 7 year old kid. Yah...that sounds plausible.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but it's hard for me to call this film the best of the year, thus far. I'm not saying that there weren't good parts, but on the whole I disliked it.

#9

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4/25/03 at 7:14pm

Matt Stone
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BTW...as long as we are talking about films with characters living in other character's minds. While I'm not the world's biggest fan of the film...I think The Cell is a much better film than Identity.

As for what I liked about Identity...I thought Liotta and Cusack were pretty good. I really liked John C. McGinley, and I thought the first half of the film was supurb.

#10

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4/25/03 at 9:03pm

Tom Rags
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Geez Justin, I wish you would just tell us what you think already!

I can't wait to see this one this weekend. Out of curiosity, is this really a true HORROR movie, or more of a suspense movie. In other words, it is more like "The Ring" or "Memento" (if that makes any sense).

#11

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4/25/03 at 9:22pm

RyanJM
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Someone please explain the ending to me, I have no idea what happened or how it all fit together.

Warning Spoiler! Click to show

If those people were all just his personalities, then how did he get put on death row for killing people?

#12

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4/25/03 at 9:23pm

MatS
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saw it tonight...
to answer your question Tom, more suspense

Ryan your question might be better suited to a 'discussion' thread
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...hreadid=137383

#13

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4/26/03 at 1:26am

Brett Hancock
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I liked it. Going on I didn't read anything about it or listen to anyone's take on it as I did with The Ring, which left me extremely dissapointed. However

Warning Spoiler! Click to show

Why must the previews continue to show way to much information. The whole time that I was watching this movie I couldn't help but think of the scene with the exploding car and the boy walking away from it that they showed ad nasaum on tv. Then when the boy went to see his mother, well I hate to say I knew what was happening but ya know.

#14

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4/26/03 at 7:36am

David Lawson
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To carry Matt's "salvageable" ending one step further, I could even have been content with Paris unearthing the key and starting to freak out, and a cut to Malcolm Rivers riding in the van with a smirk on his face. IMHO, Timothy's reappearance makes a "great" ending impossible.

Or...was it another Adaptation-style ending, which we were supposed to "hate"? Did the screenwriter(s) have an identity crisis for the final third of the film? :p)

He obviously misinterpreted what it means to "be bullish."

#15

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4/26/03 at 9:59am

Eric DiPiazza
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Hey all, this is my first post here, so bare with me. I would like to give my opinion on how...

Warning Spoiler! Click to show

the boy was the killer. That young boy was not the actual person to carry out the murders, but he was the form or "identity" that the killer took on when he committed the crimes. So it was really a big white guy killing people in real life, not that little child. In short, the boy was just how the killer saw himself when he was killing people, just like how he saw himself as Cusack's character when he took on the role of the "hero". So in my mind, although a bit cheesy (primarily done for shock value), the boy being the killer was plausible. As for how the boy killed, (explosions, decapitations,etc.)that was only pertaining to his other personalities. I guess in real life, he killed much more realistically (if you could call it that). Where I believe the confusion came into play, was at the court case where they mentioned the killer's "motel murders". I think this was said just to try to fool the audience into thinking that all of the killer's multiple personalities were real people. I don't think that we, the audience, got any real insight to the true motel murders the were committed, aside from a picture or two.

All in all I felt that Identity was a decent picture, despite all it's flaws. I'm just glad to see that it did not turn into a "Scream" with better actors and a bigger budget. I am also glad it did not take that "Indian burial ground" route that was suggested a few times. I hope I did not confuse anybody.

#16

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4/26/03 at 10:31am

Dome Vongvises
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It was good, but not great.

David Lawson said:

Quote:

To carry Matt's "salvageable" ending one step further, I could even have been content with Paris unearthing the key and starting to freak out, and a cut to Malcolm Rivers riding in the van with a smirk on his face. IMHO, Timothy's reappearance makes a "great" ending impossible.

That sounds about right.

#17

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4/26/03 at 11:47am

David Lawson
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I'm thinking about this too much.

While Timothy's ability to carry out the murders is obviously implausible from a physical standpoint, it's definitely possible from a mental standpoint, since it's mentioned multiple times how a traumatic childhood event can warp someone for life. Timothy is Malcolm Rivers as a child, but it still doesn't make the ending any less foolish.

I'm also bothered by how they just make an offhand reference to the therapy that allows Rivers' multiple personalities to meet in one location/scenario. That should be a rather important detail, considering that it's responsible for everything we had seen up to that point!

He obviously misinterpreted what it means to "be bullish."

#18

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4/26/03 at 12:38pm

JonZ
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I loved the ending

When big Rebecca DeMorney get so "big"?

#19

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4/26/03 at 2:38pm

Steve_Tk
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Glad some people agree with me.

This has spoilers because it's discussion.

I liked it up until you find out this guy is just thinking this up all in his head. Now maybe, just maybe if he was even half a likable character, then the movie could have gotten away with people liking the bad guy. But he isn't. Once you find out this guy is the guy, and he made up all these people, you just don't give a damn about any of the characters anymore.

Guess what, when the characters were dying, I was feeling bad for them and anxious to see what happens next. After the fat guy is revealed as the psycho just thinking this up, no one cares. When they showed Amanda Pete digging in the garden, I could care less at that point what was going to happen. But earlier, before the twist, I was on the edge of my seat when she was in trouble.

Again I think it was a stupid twist. And maybe if the guy was somewhat of a likable bad guy, oh well, good start, terrible finish. Only reason I'm mad is I never like Horror movies, like the Ring, but I was really liking this one.

And Rebecca probably got bigger to try and get some roles in her old age.

#20

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4/26/03 at 3:13pm

Matthew Chmiel
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I just saw Identity and I enjoyed it very much (it is one of the better films to have been released this year), but I'll agree with others that the ending has it's faults.

Warning Spoiler! Click to show

Before getting into the faults with the ending, I was into the movie the whole entire time till a major clue into discovering the twist before it is revealed. Right when the journal is mentioned to have entries done by "several people," I knew the twist would involve multiple personalities. But one has to admit that the twist of having Malcolm think the whole story in his head is a good twist. Just that the problem with the twist is that it's not executed as well as it could have been (or as some people would say, it wasn't executed well at all). For one, the scene where the twist is revealed should have not been placed when there are a good twenty minutes left to go into the movie. Once you realize that Malcolm is just thinking this whole story up in his head loses everything the film has going for it. Who cares who's going to die next since it's just a wacko making it up in his head? You feel bad for all the victims, because some way you can identify with them (say like The Narrator in Fight Club), but how the hell could one identify and feel sorry for a murderer who has multiple personalities? Now say if the twist was placed once Ed was killed, the twist might've worked better. Hell once after he was killed, have him wake up with all the lights in his face and then focus on that he's in the room with Alfred Molina's character, the twist could've worked better. Also, the twist might have worked better if they shed a little bit more light about Malcolm, the motel murders, why he has multiple personalities, and what not (like what Eric mentioned in his post). I don't think making the film a few minutes longer to shed some light on the twist would hurt it any bit.

There were also a few questions that were never answered within the film. Why didn't anybody check for room keys when the car blew up (containing Ginny and supposedly Timothy)? Didn't anybody care to realize that there were 11 people at the motel and not 10 (where the countdown began with the killing of Rebecca De Mornay's character?). Where did the "bodies" exactly go? Can a baseball bat really get shoved down a man's throat? How the hell is Alfred Molina still getting roles in Hollywood? When did Rebecca De Mornay get breast implants?

As I said, I enjoyed the film, but it could've been better if the twist was executed and explained more.

And one more thing, can we say MILF?

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#21

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4/26/03 at 3:57pm

Patrick Sun
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I recall Rebecca DeMornay got new boobies back when she was a guest star on ER a few years ago (when she was sort of dating Carter). I had a harder time just recognizing her now that she's a bit heavier (like a heavier Traci Lords).

I still think it's highly improbable that a judge would commute a death sentence execution based on a performance with the shrink, but I guess we had to have the guy be labelled "insane" even though the authorities truly have no idea which of the multiple personalities is in charge, and released to a mental hospital, else we don't get the truth of Malcolm's MPD.

I was pretty sure the kid held the key to it all, there were lots of clues. Even the inmate tells the rest of the personalities he's got a secret. Malcolm was pretty aware of what was going on. To have the inmate escape, only to have him find the motel again was the big clue that something was seriously not right with the reality of the situation. The blood on the back of Rhoades shirt was another clue. The kid was the last to be in his mom's room before they find her dead.

I could have done without the hysterical historionics of the blonde girl in the bathroom. That scene got on my nerves. I wasn't feeling no sympathy when she got carbombed.

When Ginny's head is found in the dryer, a woman in the row in front me was so scared that she yelped and jumped out of her seat. Scenes like that are almost worth the price of admission.

"Jee-sus, it's like Iwo Jima out there" - Roger Sterling on "Mad Men"
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#22

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4/26/03 at 4:14pm

MatS
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I think the director played this knowing people would be looking for clues for a plot twist throughout the whole movie so they threw in a bunch of misdirection.

- convict (Busey) was the kids biological father
- Indian burial ground (revenge for a time when there was no drinking water..as the event happens on a stormy night)
etc...

there was also a lot of forshadowing
- "where did you learn to do that?" (re: stitching) ..."right where you're standing"
- blood stain on back of 'Liota's' shirt
etc...

I'm still not sure about the ending was the kid just Rivers as a boy when he committed the murders or what it just one of Rivers' multiple personalities and he committed the murders as an adult? Which characters in the movie where his personalities and which characters did he actually kill?

I love the first 2/3 of the movie and felt like I invested a lot of time into the characters then the ole twist ending is sprung (and we're all waiting for it to happen) but they don't spend the time hashing it out properly.

the film contained some great on liners:
"I really wish I had beige" (may not be exact quote)

Patrick: "I was pretty sure the kid held the key to it all" ...no pun intended???

#23

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4/26/03 at 7:49pm

DAN NEIR
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After reading some of these comments I can't help but think of Sigourney Weaver in Aliens when she said "Did IQ's just drop sharply while I was away?"

I mean people saying the kid being the killer was unrealistic?? How could someone die with a bat like that?? Hello!! It was all in his head, if a giant pink lizard appeared and turned out to kill everyone it would have been ok because it was all in his head. They were all aspects of his personality. That's why they disappeared, they were re intergrated back into his psyche. The little kid represents a part of himself and wasn't meant to be taken literally. Am I the only one who has ever read or seen stuff on people with multiple personalities before? Being a former psych major I loved this movie. I did see the twist coming but it still didn't keep me from liking this film. And I totally disagree with the argument that once you find out they aren't real you stop caring about them. I don't know about anyone else but I was rooting for him to be CURED at the end, at peace with himself and finally able to subdue his murderous side, to reintegrate all the parts of himself back into a collective whole.. That was what you were suppose to care about. I will concede that a last minute hearing to decide whether or not to execute him was a huge stretch. Not to mention that the last time I checked the psychological community hadn't made up it's mind on whether or not it even recognized multiple personality disorder as a legitimate disorder. If memory serves it's not listed in the DSM IV.

#24

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4/26/03 at 8:35pm

Matt Stone
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Quote:

I don't know about anyone else but I was rooting for him to be CURED at the end, at peace with himself and finally able to subdue his murderous side, to reintegrate all the parts of himself back into a collective whole..

You were supposed to root for him to be cured. Unfortunantly, the film never presented the man in a way that I wanted to root for him. Hell...he only had a couple minutes of screen time and we didn't even really understand why until late in the film, when the twist was revealed. I honestly couldn't care less about him...or any of his personalities.

Quote:

I mean people saying the kid being the killer was unrealistic?? ...etc

I can agree with your point about the fact that it's all in his head anyway, but I think it's a double edged sword. The film definitely played for realism inside his mind...so it comes as a

moment when they shatter realism in the last minute of the film. That being said, if it's what they were shooting for...than that's kewl, and I'm glad people enjoyed it. But I didn't.

Edit: fixed quote

#25

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4/26/03 at 8:46pm

AJ Johnson
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I loved the way it ended. I would have been disappointed if the guy just made peace with himself after all that. It just wouldn't have fit the mood of the movie imo. And the way the kid looked in the end smiling and tapping that rake thing against his hands gave me chills

The creative person is both more primitive and more cultivated, more destructive, a lot madder and a lot saner, than the average person. - Frank Barron

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#26

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4/26/03 at 8:50pm

DAN NEIR
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He had more than a couple of minutes of screen time. He was on the screen almost all the time. If you were looking at John Cusack then you were looking at him, if you were looking at Liotta or Amanda Peet, you were looking at him. The whole movie is about him. They presented all the different sides of his persona from murderous and violent(Timothy, Liotta,Busey) to the softer sides(Peet, Duvall). I didn't want to see Amanda Peet get it in the end. But I can understand if you never cared from the get go, I just don't get the argument that people stopped caring when the twist was revealed.
On a side note, my God! Amanda Peet is hot!!

#27

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4/26/03 at 9:35pm

Justin_S
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I got into the same argument about how realistic the kid doing the killing was on another board. Seriously, I don't see how people could find it unrealistic when its in the guy's head where anything can happen. In real life, sure, but in someone's mind, no problem there.

I also thought the twist was executed perfectly, and it added to the film for me rather than take away from it. I guess it depends on the viewer, but I was still completely enthralled with everything that happened after the reveal. The ending with the kid attacking Peet was also very effective in my opinion, and was truly a perfect ending in my book.

Also, if you care about the characters or not (I still did after the reveal), I'm glad this was more than just another killer on the loose film, and that this film had more depth than that. This film is damn near perfect in my opinion, and that goes for from beginning to the very end!

Quote:

On a side note, my God! Amanda Peet is hot!!

Indeed, she is an absolute goddess, and is one of the hottest and most charming women on this planet if you ask me! She's one of my favorite actresses easily, and has been since I first saw her a few years back. I also have to say that Rebecca De Mornay is quite gorgeous as well, and I've liked her for a while now too.

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#28

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4/26/03 at 9:37pm

Matt Stone
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Dan,
I'm not an idiot...I know that we watched him via various personalites the entire film, I was just talking about the more concrete idea of rooting for him.

Quote:

just don't get the argument that people stopped caring when the twist was revealed.

It's not really an argument...it's an opinion. If you didn't stop caring, that's good. I, on the other hand, did stop caring.

#29

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4/26/03 at 9:52pm

Alex Spindler
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Not responding to anyone in particular (I've seen this in many of the reviews as well), but I get the feeling that arguing about caring after the MPD plot is fully revealed is the same thing as
Warning Spoiler! Click to show

when many critics (Roger Ebert included) didn't like The Usual Suspects after its twist was revealed.

In both situations events are not real, but I think their method of presenting them was such that I continued to care about the characters even knowing full well the reality of the situation.

I mean, I sincerely wanted the characters to stop the killer before they were lost. I also really liked the idea of a personality who wanted to escape and be fruitful (minor pun intended) being the remaining personality in this guy's head.

Also, I could find the boy being the agent of killing to be totally plausible. I the small glimpses of MPD I've seen in documentaries, new personalities seem to develop to deal with certain issues, and having a boy be the angry type was perfect, especially given the more outrageous methods that he used (decapitation, forcing a bat down someone's throat). I thought it was so well done and a great way to end the film.

I wonder, however, if he will be able to stay on the loose at all after his escape. He has lost all of the practical personalities and is only left with the most extreme.

Was anyone else reminded of a scene from Hell in Event Horizon when they showed the bat scene? *ouch*

#30

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4/26/03 at 10:33pm

Matthew Chmiel
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Quote:

When Ginny's head is found in the dryer

Ginny was "carbombed". Patrick, you have your characters confused.

Quote:

After reading some of these comments I can't help but think of Sigourney Weaver in Aliens when she said "Did IQ's just drop sharply while I was away?"

Is that an insult to all of the people who disliked the movie? I don't think one needs to have a high or a low IQ to enjoy a movie.

Quote:

Hell...he only had a couple minutes of screen time and we didn't even really understand why until late in the film, when the twist was revealed.

I agree. Why care for a character (or should I say a distnict personality) when on screen for what, 10 minutes? And did we ever get a real legitimate reason he had 11 personalities and why did he get these 11 personalities?

Quote:

I wonder, however, if he will be able to stay on the loose at all after his escape.

Yes, in a few years, there will be an Identity 2.

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