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Actually, Draco from Dragonheart predates Jar Jar by 3 years. He spoke, was represented on set (but not by the voice actor), and was onscreen as much as Jar Jar.
But I think Kong is way, way, way, WAY beyond that. Good to hear about the production notes. I'll wait to see the film before I decide to pay for pre-production!
Take care,
Chuck
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Honestly, Jar Jar was a tremendous breakthrough, but a quick rewatch of TPM certainly shows the seams (not in the animation, but the integration). And he wasn't a REAL emotive character to begin with. His movements were good, but he was like the pseudopod in The Abyss...not integral to the film. Jar Jar = pseudopod/breakthrough. Gollum/Yoda (2002) = T1000/integral to film. I grant you Coleman is a master craftsman...his Yoda work in II/III is incredible (as Yoda is 100% animated).
Much respect to Coleman. And this will probably drive Star Wars fans waiting for their VFX Oscar crazy...but I think Kong is going to get rewarded much like Gollum in TTT. With the VFX Oscar. Not too fair for the masterful work in EIII, but there it is. Maybe I'll be wrong.
But I'd put money on that prediction,
Chuck
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From what I've been reading, ILM can hang up in terms of Visual Effects Oscar. It's a shame really because clearly, with Episode III, they reach an extremely high level on all aspects of the visual effects.
But, considering, you have one effect in Kong that's the star of the film, the Academy is going to pick that...especially if he's as good as everyone says he is.
Still, I want ILM to get rewarded for the overall work they did in Episode III because it's the best I've seen this year.
Kong may change that.
"Because he's the hero Gotham deserves. But, not the one it needs right now. So, we'll hunt. Because he can take. Because, he's not a hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A DARK KNIGHT."
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ILM's problem is that they haven't had two gigantic WOW effects like Gollum and Kong. If you look at the Prequels across the board from the beginning of the film to the end, the visuals are extremely consistent and spectacular...even more so than the Rings Trilogy.
But, then you had Gollum which everyone focused on instead of the entire film because for my money, Episode II throughout looked much better than Two Towers.
Episode III is a gigantic step up from Episode II. It is an achievement in seamless compositing of the visual effects with the real elements. But again, it doesn't have a WOW like Kong. Yoda and Mustafar aren't enough.
"Because he's the hero Gotham deserves. But, not the one it needs right now. So, we'll hunt. Because he can take. Because, he's not a hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A DARK KNIGHT."
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Quote:
| if kong wins, i'm sure it will be because the film itself makes more of an emotive connection with the viewers who are voting than the other films in contention. |
Tada! Which is the way it should be. The effects should be subservient and supportive of the story.
Quote:
of course the contary could be true, and the voters could look at another film and find that without its spectacle and effects it would be almost worthless and then vote for that one because the effects raised a mediocre or silly property to the level of something worth seeing or had the appearence of substance.
the talent and industry from ILM and Weta always impresses me. |
I concur with you on both points Paul.
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Quote:
| The award isn't "Best Effects Film" It's "Best ... Effects". |
No. It is Best Effects ...In a Film.
Otherwise they could just send in demo reels.
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Weta will very likely win the FX Oscar for 'Kong'. As Corey S. alluded to, Weta will be rewarded for just how impressive Kong himself turned out (much like Weta's win for TTT for their work on Gollum). ILM did some amazing work this year, but Kong is being hailed as one of the greatest CG creations (if not the greatest) in history. He seems to be garnering even more praise than Gollum did when TTT hit theaters.
"King Kong" has a lot of hit or miss FX shots in the movie, but Kong himself is brilliantly realized (like Gollum) and has that WOW factor Corey was talking about. I honestly think a lot of this had to do with the film's schedule. If Universal had opted to make 'Kong' a summer 2006 release instead, I think Weta would've had more time to tweak a lot of their non-Kong shots in the movie (again, some shots in the movie are absolutely breathtaking while others fall surprisingly flat).
If the Academy opts to have an FX competition this year (there are rumblings of the Academy giving Weta a Special Achievement Oscar for the FX in 'Kong') than ILM will get their one or two nominations (for 'Sith' and maybe "War of the Worlds"), but I'd consider it a major shock at this point if 'Kong' didn't walk away with the award.
This would give Weta their fourth FX Oscar in five years (ILM won a record-setting 14 Best FX Oscars in 17 years, but have gone home empty handed the last ten years). If memory serves, the last film to get a "Special Achievement Oscar" for FX was 1990's "Total Recall".
Unless 'Kong' completely falls on its face at the box office, expect the team at Weta to walk away with yet another FX Oscar.
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and I repeat IN A FILM. The same mind set is in effect for Score, MakeUp, Acting, Directing etc. Its how well each category is used to service the film ie story. Not just how well it is done.
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Lou is correct. The effects are NOT on an island. Their contribution to the filmThe voters are going to look at War of the Worlds, ROTS, and Kong. Which film is going to stick with them, especially the largest voting bloc (actors)?
Quote:
| Yeah, the VFX oscar usually goes to the better film. |
This is usually correct as well. Gladiator won over Hollow Man in 2000. In 2000 or 2004, Star Wars film would have WALKED with this award, but in 1999, The Matrix was released, and 2001-2003 belonged to LOTR. It's just a matter of timing. I don't think release date matters, either. What makes the impression, seamless background effects/General Grievous or
KING KONG?
ROTS was probably the most consistent film I've seen, except for possibly The Matrix Revolutions. But it's tough to compete with a photorealistic, emoting, 1930's KING KONG.
I do think ROTS deserves A LOT of recognition. But you have to recognize Kong as well (I am assuming).
And I thought ILM's work in The Hulk was outstanding
Take care,
Chuck
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But Chuck, if Kong is as good as advertised, yet the rest of the film's effects range from shoddy to great, whereas Episode III is virtually seamless, consistent, and spectacular throughout it's running time, how can Kong win?
For me, it's not enough that Kong is what wins the award. I want a film to win the award for the best visual effects in an entire film...not just one aspect. That's my problem with what has happened to ILM lately.
"Because he's the hero Gotham deserves. But, not the one it needs right now. So, we'll hunt. Because he can take. Because, he's not a hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A DARK KNIGHT."
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| In the NYC show mounted around Kong (in which they use the original Max Steiner music, by the way. Another brilliant touch.) |
Those of you who have seen the film, any comments about the score? I'm aware that this was becoming a bit controversial because of Jackson's changing composer fairly late in the game.
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What has "happened" to ILM? There was a deserving winnner every year they lost. And if Kong wins, even if just for Kong, how is that not deserved? Assuming Kong got higher up the mountain than ANYTHING, isn't that more impressive than being consistently good across a bunch of digital backgrounds, foregrounds, and 5 minutes of Yoda?
Again, Kong wins because those effects (KONG) are more critical to the film...it always comes back to the film as a whole, not the effects in a vacuum.
Quote:
| For me, it's not enough that Kong is what wins the award. |
Then there is nothing to counter that with. That is not the measuring stick the Academy voters (nor myself) use. Voters don't care if the shuttles and droids and Clones are perfect CG. The VES has a breakout for VFX in the entire film versus Best VFX.
In the end, what do people remember from each film? Like a great performance WOWS you, great VFX WOWS you.
Apparently, KONG WOWS
Take care,
Chuck
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Two separate issues:
1) ROTS had spectacular effects. If it wins, I'll smile and be happy for their extremely hard work over three films. They'll deserve it. ROTS WOWED me across the board, but I can't hang my hat on anything. The whole thing was excellent, with no Legolas-on-Troll, Anakin-on-cowbeast, Treebeard Bluescreen, too-many-digital-Smiths weaknesses. I loved it, and it is a deserving winner. If KONG wins, it's because KONG is that good, to overcome such weaknesses and still dazzle the audience.
2) Is Sideshow WETA doing some Kong maquettes? I know they are doing a reproduction of the armature...but I want the new KONG. I never bought any of the LOTR stuff (though I was sorely tempted over and over), but I want a KONG.
The Eighth Wonder of the World,
Chuck
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All good points, Chuck. I see what you're saying in respect.
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Quote:
| I'm aware that this was becoming a bit controversial because of Jackson's changing composer fairly late in the game |
Why did Jackson change composers? Somehow I missed that story.
BTW, the '76 version of KONG won the Oscar for visual effects that year {tied with Logans Run).
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Kevin M
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You thought
what was a WETA film, Greg....Narnia?
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