Yamaha S-2500 universal player - DCDi, HDMI, i.Link, video scaling (1 Viewer)

[John Kotches]

You probably won't get much information until the S2500 is available for sale.

There was no estimated shipping date given for the S2500 at CEDIA, which I'm guessing means we'll get a date at CES.

Cheers,

 

[dpippel]

One of the best layer changes to use as a test because of its convenient location is on Star Wars: Attack of the Clones. It occurs just a few seconds after the chapter stop for Chapter 28, "Asteroid Chase". Just after Slave One comes out of hyperspace, the camera follows the ship as it heads towards the asteroid field surrounding Geonosis. The camera then switches to a view of space as Obi-Wan's ship comes out of hyperspace. The layer change occurs just as the view switches from the planet to the starfield, just before Obi-Wan's ship appears.

Sorry, but I don't have the exact time marker. The layer change here is completely seamless on the 2900, but you'll notice it on the 3910.

 

[EricRWem]

John, I've had a couple of direct emails from a gentleman who works at Yamaha and he continues to give me strong assurances that the s2500 "will ship at the end of October." While that would certainly be amazing, I have my doubts.

Would you like me to give you his email address and maybe you and your magazine could find out some reality on this?

 

[Troy TN]

here is more info on the s2500 from avs forums:

The S2500 is based on the philips 900sa platform ie, the chassis, transport, software, chipsets are exactly the same. Philips did the design work and engineering and Yamaha bought the player wholesale and added their own specs.

The main difference between the Philips and Yammy is that Yamaha had specified the addition of DVD-Audio support plus the inclusion of I-link. In other words, think of the Philips 900sa as Yamaha S2500 lite.

The Mpeg chip on board is based on LSI, as Philips tend to go with them for their mpeg solutions. Almost all of Yamaha's DVD players are based on Philips players, with the exception of the S2300 which was sourced from the Panasonic RP-91.

I was also told that it is unlikely that the S2500 would be ready to ship this year. A working model would be ready for January's CES, but consumers arent likely to see them in their homes until March next year.

So far, Philips has no plans to release the 900sa in the US market as there have been no orders forthcoming. That's a shame cos the 900sa will likely to retail at half the price of the S2500. For those that dont need the i-link and DVD-A capability, it's probably a nice HDMI upscaling player to buy. Also, for those who like DSD, the 900sa has an option that "upscales" all PCM material into DSD stream (somewhat like the Sony XA777ES and XA9000ES).

 

[EricRWem]

I'll ask the same thing I did at AVS, but never got an answer to:

Is the fact that the Yamaha s2500 is based off Phillips a good thing or a bad thing?

 

[EricRWem]

Ok, folks, here it is: My Yamaha dealer is going to call today, but it looks like the Yamaha rep I spoke to was indeed correct. My dealer says he's been told to get ready. The unit is going to start making it's way out in early November, so all indications that we get so far, and I'll update this again when my dealer gives me more info, is that the Yamaha s2500 WILL hit the streets in November.

 

[Chris Huber]

I'd like to know the difference between a Sony/Panny HDMI players coming out and this $700 one. Where is the $400?

 

[Rob Kramer]

i-link
(not to be found on any other sub-$1200 MSRP player)

Also:
Plays both SACD and DVD-A
(no DVD-A on the Sony, no SACD on the Panny)

Good DVD-A sound quality
(I would guess better than the Panny)

Good SA-CD sound quality
(odds are thats its better than the Sony - lower-end Sonys havent been too good lately)

Adjustable BM (slope and xover) for SACD (BM/TA not required with i-link)
(fixed 100 xover on the Sony)

Faroudja de-interlacer
(not on the Sony)

Aluminum faceplate
(plastic on Sony and Panny)

Good GUI
(Sony? Panny?)
(GUI on my Panny DVDR sucks)

 

[EricRWem]

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/DVD/DVDS2500.htm

Also finally on Yamaha's website. This must be a very recent development.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Eric- Not easy, but try a search here and on AVS for Philips players. I *remember* them as being really buggy. (The 962, anyway.)

 

[Rob Kramer]

If it was based on a Denon player, you wouldnt need to "search" ... just open your eyes as the bug reports (along with other quirks) are listed everywhere.:wink:

 

[EricRWem]

Speaks for itself, certainly. Whatever move I make, it won't be towards a Denon product.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

That's obviously your choice. But don't automatically think that every other manufacturer does a better job than Denon.

By the way, the 962 was not a Denon product.

Also, I don't believe that this is true for the Yamaha:

No player that I know of has adjustable slopes. ??

 

[Rob Kramer]

The Yamaha s1500 does. You can choose a 24,18, or 12 db/oct slope (and you also have a choice of 4 xovers - 60,80,100, & 120). I see no reason why the s2500 would be different. Same platform, same factory.

 

[EricRWem]

Of course not. Sorry if I sounded overly flippant on that.

However, I feel that the existing body of information that IS out there about Denon makes it clear enough to me, personally, that I'd probably have better odds steering clear of them.

I exaggerate here a little bit when I say to you: It seems like the folks that get awesome Denon players that work perfectly, if you go by the numerous threads in AVS for starters, are the lucky minority. It just is a body of evidence that's too hard for me to ignore.

That's not all Denon's fault. A lot of those problems are flaws with the Faroudja chip. I have the Zenith 318 and it has a lot of the same issues the $1000+ Denon players have. The common denominator for many of these bugs is the Faroudja chip on a lot of these players, regardless of brand and price.

If I am going to upgrade at all, I'm probably either going to get a player like this for my dedicated audio and keep using the Zenith 318 for video, or get a non-Faroudja player if I decide to go bigger all around, like the Onkyo DV-SP1000. I won't by another Faroudja based player in this generation. I know that much.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Eric- Again, I think you might be missing the fact that Denon is selling a buttload of these players. So when a person has a problem, they post. So the hit rate does seem higher. But I'm sure there are too many more people out there who don't simply post, "I have a good one," to counter the "bad" posts, just because it doesn't really contribute anything.

I agree that Denon's QC could use improvement. But for now (for me, for example), if you want a player with a minimal layer change: you get a Denon. If you want a player with i.Link and DVI and HDMI: you get the 3910. And, you don't have to pay $1650 for it.

Rob- I just looked at the 1500 manual. Actually, because they call it a sub "cut off", I'm not so sure that is a crossover freq. It might simply be a freq limiter for the sub channel. I.e., there are some Chesky SACDs out there with a full range signal to the 0.1 channel. This setting might simply be to filter that. And they have the slope adjustments, but they don't say if they are high passes *and* low passes and if they would be the same or not. Oh: no BM for DVD-A (top right pg 14). That's a problem.

The 1500 uses Faroudja. Any reports of ... macroblocking?

 

[EricRWem]

I see you've been paying attention. The Onkyo 1000 is the "fantasy/hail mary" player that I have at the absolute top of the mountain. I'll consider it if I really determine it's head and shoulders above the rest. Audio, video, you name it. The Yamaha s2500, Pioneer 59, and Denon 3910 are the more realistic choices.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Unfortunately for both of us, there is no perfect player yet.

 

[Rob Kramer]

You can call it whatever you want to call it. Its a crossover and a slope. This is the same design utilizied by (previous) Phillips (built at the same factory). I have experimented with the various settings, and *I* can hear a difference. As for DVD-A BM, yes, nothing is listed in the manual. However, when playing DVD-A through the mc analog outputs, the sound is full and encompassing - with a great integration between my sats and sub. Since the sound is seamless and the sub gets a "good workout", I will assume that there is BM - just not user selectable. DVD-V through the mc outs is very comparable to digital DVD-V with my reciever's 80Hz crossover, so its my guess that the players PCM crossover is also 80Hz.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

I emailed Yamaha to ask about those settings for SACD...

I kind of doubt that the manual is wrong regarding BM for DVD-A. All you have to do is to change the DVD-V BM, and then listen for differences with a DVD-A disc. The easiest way would be to turn off the main channels, and just listen for differences in the sub channel between all large, sub on, vs all small, sub on.