WSJ: Warner seeks DVD replacement for CD (1 Viewer)

[Danny Tse]

I think creating something new, then marketing it, will cost Warner much more than simply adopting existing proven technology that essential does the same thing.

 

[Rommel_L]

They will stop yapping if they see how much it would cost them to switch from cd to dvd (medium, that is)...

 

[Marc Colella]

Well the problem with the "Enhanced CD" layer is that there isn't much room left over for real multimedia content. All you'll get is small crappy resolution video's and some pictures and such. And you certainly won't be fitting ripped tracks on there was well unless they're really low bitrate. Enchanced CD isn't doing anything to sales now, and SACD isn't selling either - so why would combining the two automatically make any difference?

I'm not saying what Warner's is trying to do will work (it probably won't), but I can understand why they're using DVD instead of making Hybrid SACDs. SACDs doesn't have any real selling point to 99% of their customers.

At least with DVD they'll have the full 4.7GB of space available to the customer. There's enough room for real multimedia content, good quality ripped MP3 tracks, etc.

But as I said before, this will probably fail miserably anyways. People are happy with CDs and more and more are adopting MP3 as their music medium of choice. I think we should just be greatful that CDs are still around and it hasn't been killed off by MP3s yet... and that there are still some DVD-A and SACD titles trickling out.

 

[LanceJ]

Well physically speaking, there isn't anything new about this dvd album concept. AFAIK this format is using features that have been available to its authors since dvd's debut.

Not to sound like a Warner fanboy, but what could make the difference is how this format is marketed. I do not believe it could ever replace the CD but it has some sales potential.

If they keep pushing the music album plus video features aspect, that would separate it from concert dvds. And the rippable feature is definitely a modern, new and truly useful thing for many people & it kind of lends the "old" dvd format a fresh spark. I'm no marketing expert but creating a desired image in a customers' mind is a bit tricky and involves lots of subtle things, but if you keep at it that image can be sustained. Just look at Bose, Nike, Starbucks, etc etc. Their products really aren't all that special (IMO) but you still see them everywhere anyway.

And if you think about it, those dvds that have been coming out with Dolby/DTS surround tracks plus video - for instance Depeche Mode, certain electronica titles I've mentioned before, and (sort of) the new Steve Miller CD+dvd package and Bjork DualDiscs - are already pretty much "dvd albums".

 

[Brian L]

Please allow me a bit of a rant....

They can call it what they want, but it will still be yet another confusing product for the average consumer to ignore. And unless something reaches mass acceptance, the best that will happen is a new format becomes a niche, like our beloved DVD-A and SACD.

The pre-ripped tracks are a potentially good idea, but the article implies that there is some sort of Apple connection, and that these will likely be 128K AAC, with full DRM. I am an iPod guy, and I would not consider this a selling point.

Lets face it folks, we are not going to be getting much of, if any, mainstream pop/rock on SACD or DVD-A. For that type of music, those formats are dead. Stick a fork in 'em. BluRay or HD-DVD? Those are deader than DVD-A and SACD; they just don't know it yet.

Lance, thanks for mentioning Fly Like an Eagle….

Let me offer a potentially unpopular opinion that I shared privately with Kevin Brown regarding that release. The was a very smart marketing move on Capital’s part, by selling FLAE as DVD/CD two-fer.

They packaged their content so that EVERYONE can play everything on it. Its a regular Redbook music CD that anyone/everyone can play (even the mastering is not too bad). Its a regular DVD bulging with great content that anyone and everyone can play. No SACD w/o video content to scare away "normal" folks. No DVD-A with compatibility and navigation issues. No stupid Dual Disc non-sense, where some percentage of users will not be able to play the "not really a CD" side.

With the new FLAE, you get a very good sounding surround sound mix that I expect virtually no one would be able to distinguish from a true hi-rez version, you have a full length concert video (also in 5.1), and you have an interview with the artist. Oh, and you a get a real CD.

The percentage of users that will NOT buy this because it is not an SACD or that it lacks a true hi-rez DVD-A layer is probably so small as to be lost in the rounding errors, present company excluded, right?

Think of it this way. To my knowledge, there have been very few (or maybe none at all) audio only Dolby Digital releases. DTS has had music-only discs for a long time, but they were and are a niche product. The fact that there were very few DTS decoders in the early days of DVD was one reason, but non-enthusiasts have no interest in audio-only releases, unless its just a Redbook CD. FLAE, were it packaged like a DTS music disc (no Redbook, no video content) would not have sold worth a damn. Actually, there is a DTS FLAE, right? Know anyone that has one? Edit: OK, on this forum, there probably are a few that have the DTS version, so lets leave that one alone;-)

But Steve Miller and Capital chose to package FLAE to appeal to virtually everyone OTHER than hard core, hi-rez enthusiasts like us. Because of that, there is no impediment to purchasing it for the non-enthusiast music fan. Just think about it. There are no hoops to jump through. If you have a DVD player with surround sound, you can get maximum enjoyment from this product. Even w/o surround sound, you can still enjoy the concert, interviews, and Redbook disc.

To me, this was a master stroke. I can tell any of my non-enthusiast, music loving friends to buy this, they can play it on every DVD and CD player that they own, they can rip it to their iPods, and I will not get a phone call because they can't figure out how to play it. And maybe an enthusiast or two will buy a copy, and find that it actually sounds pretty damn good.

So, if the best I can get in terms of MC sound is a CD/DVD package, with a very well done Dolby Digital mix (or DTS, I suppose), lots of bonus content, a stand alone plane-jane Redbook CD that I can rip at any resolution, and play on any portable digital player, and most importantly ZERO COMPATIBILITY or NAVIGATION ISSUES, why would I NOT buy it?

So there you have it. If I was king, we would all be spinning our favorite music on true hi-rez SACD and/or DVD-A discs. But that is just not going to happen.

Brian

 

[Justin Lane]

With steadily decreasing CD sales and ever increasing MP3 and DVD sales this format may just catch on with the masses if the price is right. MP3 is becoming the format of choice with the number of portables, car players and home player which handle the format, and everyone and their brother has a computer with a DVD-ROM drive,

The consumer will get downloadable MP3 tracks which integrate with their MP3 player, high quality video (Enhanced CD like Danny mentioned is absolute crap), a surround mix, and the potential for Hi-res as well. I would imagine the max resolution on a Hi-def track would be 24/96 to maintain compatibility with non- DVD-A players.

Will it sell is the question. I have no idea, but if the price is right there is always the possibility (no more than $16 MSRP).

DVD as a format also has another advantage in that the prices of the discs become discounted and go down over time. Discs which once sold for 20-30 bucks can now be had for $5-10. If Warner follows the same pricing practices they have with DVD-V, they could have a product which would actually move. (DVD-A had to many hands in the pot including the DVD-A Forum, MLP, which all kept the pricing inflated).

J

 

[Kevin C Brown]

DVD sales are "increasing", but that is for movies. I doubt that will be the case for music.

CD sales are decreasing. MP3 sales are increasing. I personally think the writing is on the wall for *any* reasonable high def audio format. CD included (as compared to MP3, anyway). 8 Track had its day. Cassette had its day. CD had its day. As much as it pains me to say this, it might just be that *most* people's interest in a physical medium for music sales is just going to continue to wane over time. But if the record labels rejigger their thinking, and specifically go after niche market sales, well then, I think they could generate some interest, sales, and profit there. Whether it's DVD-A, SACD, DualDisc, music DVDs, two-fer CD/DVD packages, or something that we haven't yet thought of.

 

[LanceJ]

Good post Brian.

Compressed easily downloadable formats = mass market format.......

Physical media = the new premium format?

Because I just refuse to believe EVERY music fan will stop buying a physical record of their favorite music. There are still useful advantages of a disc over the virtual version of music that IMO many people still value & will pay extra for.

Folgers is cheap and can be brought home & easily made into a cup of coffee, but I *still* see plenty of people at coffeehouses paying $1.50 to $3.00 for a cup of java.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Great post Brian but I would add one more thing...the retailers must be rolling their eyes now.

Warner abandoned DualDisc after just a year or so (as I predicted) and now they are pitching for something that looks suspiciously like DVDA, possibly without the hirez content the audiophiles want...they must have zero credibility with the retailers at this point. Do you expect to Best Buy ot Tower to give the end caps or prominent displays? I doubt it except maybe Tower if the incentives are right since they are practically bankrupt from a cash flow perspective.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

One more thing:

I still think the biggest win here is for one unified (pipe dream I know ) format like BluRay or HD-DVD that does everything:

1. Hidef movies.
2. Computer (PC & Mac) data storage and optical standard.
3. Hirez (ideally) or redbook music storage.
4. Photographic storage since digital photography is doing well.
5. Delivery mechanism forany new software titles.

(2, 4, 5 can be combined)