Windows 8, Usability disaster

Discussion in 'Computers' started by Sam Posten, Jun 17, 2012.

  1. Dave Upton

    Dave Upton Owner
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    I am very unimpressed - and this is coming from a guy that bought 98, 98SE, Me, XP, Vista AND 7 on day 1. This is the first time i've installed a new Microsoft OS and been disgusted. It's not usable, especially not for the PC power user. No thank you.
     
  2. Sam Posten

    Sam Posten Moderator
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    Dead on Arrival:
    http://appleinsider.com/articles/12/10/16/microsoft-surface-tablet-with-windows-rt-to-start-at-499
    Duh:
    http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/16/3511264/windows-8-corporate-adoption-study-compared-to-windows-8
    Background:
    http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/16/3511002/microsoft-surface-inside-look-history
    /agreed:
    http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/10/oped-if-microsoft-adopts-apples-app-strategy-its-better-to-follow-os-x-than-ios/
     
  3. Sam Posten

    Sam Posten Moderator
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    Blee:
    http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/10/as-surface-goes-on-sale-today-microsoft-seeks-to-reinvent-tablet/
     
  4. Stan

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    Everything I read or hear about Windows 8 is always negative.
    Looks like MS has a major dud once again.
    Maybe in a year or two and several service packs, it might be OK, but for now I'd stay far, far away from it.
     
  5. Sam Posten

    Sam Posten Moderator
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    Duh and Duher.
    http://ozar.me/2012/10/why-im-returning-my-microsoft-surface-rt/
    http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2012/11/05/microsofts-new-tune-only-have-16gb-open-on-that-32gb-surface-not-more-than-20gb-as-promised/
    LockerGnome weighs in:
     
  6. Sam Posten

    Sam Posten Moderator
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    How is it even possible that this is so bad?
    http://www.slate.com/articles/technol/technology/2012/11/microsoft_surface_why_is_the_new_tablet_so_much_worse_than_the_ipad.html
    But hey, good news, a smaller surface with xbox branding is imminent! /facepalm
    http://www.theverge.com/2012/11/6/3608432/xbox-surface-xbox-tablet-7-inch
     
  7. Dave Upton

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    I'm actually using Win8 at home now with Start8 (from Stardock) to restore some semblance of usability. That said - I don't think we can evaluate the tablets until we see Surface Pro, hopefully that will address the lag and graphical issues.
     
  8. Sam Posten

    Sam Posten Moderator
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    And the pricing one too. =) Cause all these problems are obviously caused by the cheap RT hardware, throw more expensive hardware at it, that'll work!
    I hate 8 on my laptop, if I could revert it to 7 I would. But I had held out hope that it simply made more sense on a touch enabled device and so far that doesn't seem to be true.
    So the "No compromises" Win 8 is so riddled with compromises that it sucks both on PCs and tablets.
     
  9. mattCR

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    I have a lot of issues with Surface and it's not perfect (though frankly, it's pretty nice) but outside of the fact he's comparing the price-point of a 32G tablet to a 16G one, he also refers to office as "trial" - which was only true when the tablet was Beta, you receive a full version of Office with every tablet.

    Example:




    Which is literally not factually true. Only the beta users had previews. Everyone who has bought a tablet receives full.

    I think it's a big difference in expectations. I admit, for me, the coolness of the surface is that I've had zippo issues making it adapt to a wireless mouse and rock some RDP. It's VPN capabilities are fantastic, and it decimates anything else on the market if you are in an enterprise that utilizes exchange. And, it didn't take me a day or more to realize that the ability to grab a command line makes certain things possible I can't accomplish on anything else.
    We also have to remember, Sam, that WindowsRT is NOT Windows8. They are not the same animal at all. But it's OK. The market is big enough. We'll see. Now that I've got a pretty good handle on sideloading apps with a few test runs, I will await a good port of DosBox and then for me this thing becomes incredibly useful. Thought not as MS intended, of course.
     
  10. Sam Posten

    Sam Posten Moderator
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    "I feel like I'm being punished"
    http://www.loopinsight.com/2012/11/07/drunk-jennifer-using-a-microsoft-surface/?utm_source=loopinsight.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=wordtwit
     
  11. Sam Posten

    Sam Posten Moderator
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    How about a nice steaming @%@% sandwich?
    http://hothardware.com/News/Microsofts-Big-Hidden-Windows-8-Feature-BuiltIn-Advertising/
     
  12. Sam Posten

    Sam Posten Moderator
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    There will be blood:
    http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/11/steven-sinofsky-windows-president-leaving-microsoft-effective-immediately/
     
  13. Sam Posten

    Sam Posten Moderator
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    When PC Mag calls it a disaster....
    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2411445,00.asp
     
  14. Sam Posten

    Sam Posten Moderator
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    Great insights:
    http://www.mondaynote.com/2012/11/18/apple-can-finish-what-microsofts-sinofsky-started/
     
  15. Sam Posten

    Sam Posten Moderator
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    A semi positive review which points you to two competitors..
    http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2012/11/touch-laptops.html
    And another list of grievances:
    http://www.useit.com/alertbox/windows-8.html
     
  16. Sam Posten

    Sam Posten Moderator
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    LMAO:
    http://www.cultofmac.com/207632/why-windows-8-is-one-of-the-worst-operating-systems-ever-video/?utm_medium=twit&utm_campaign=spread-us
    Seriously tho, this guy NAILS EVERY SINGLE ONE of my complaints.
    And these are things that 'fans' of Windows 8 cannot possibly explain, nor explain how they navigate around them because they aren't doing f-all besides opening office and explorer.
     
  17. mattCR

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    Sam, you have to realize, though, using CultOfMac to criticize windows is not necessarily what you would call an unbiased source? :) I mean, if I wanted to run threads to slag MacOS all day long, I could kind of do that :)

    I've been in the beta and development of Win8 for a long while, and I still have stations that run it. Some of the complaints are baffling and frankly seem to come from someone who made up their mind quite some time ago. I think there are valid complaints, and Sam it's OK that you share them. But I do find it interesting that the only WinUI he shows before as an example is WfW3.11. Because the transition from WfW to Win95, where we went away from folders and shell tasks to a task bar received so much negatives that Compute and other magazines at the time thought it was doomed.

    There are a lot of other components left out as well. Like I said, people will hate. And there are things about Win8 I'm not that pleased with. But having used it extensively for months, I can appreciate a lot of the touches that frankly work incredibly well. Some of the things that are left out of this is the real drive to touch screen laptops which surprisingly are way more effective then you'd imagine; and the greater integration of network management and tools to handle remotes and 10' UI, etc.

    Again, are there things that I wish were different? Sure. Win7 Pro is still my default OS, and will be for sometime. But I'm not going to waste my time bashing something just to bash. :)
     
  18. Sam Posten

    Sam Posten Moderator
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    Let me ask you this Matt, cause I've never seen you touch on it: Do you have to help OTHER people transition through these OSes? Cause that's where my heartache lies. I am no longer a professor but if I was I have no idea how I would explain the thinking behind the things he points out. None of those things make any sense EXCEPT that they are there to help make touchscreens 'easier' to use for the "Duh all I wanna do is email and facebook" crowd.
    How do you explain to corporate customers how any of this helps them work better?
    How do you explain to a 60 year old house wife why this is good for her computing uses?
    Of course I can make my own stuff work. I can install shell tools and live in the desktop mode. That's not the point. Is it faster than Win 7? Sure. But If the OS is hiding things I need then that's also besides the point.
    It's interesting watching the Win 8 fans try to debunk what he is saying. 5 pages of 'This guy is an idiot' but nobody noting that he has goals and the OS is working against him. See this video of him trying to work through it:
    http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1127032-windows-8-the-animated-evaluation/page__view__findpost__p__595409842
     
  19. mattCR

    mattCR Executive Producer
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    Sam-

    In my last job role, I was director for a company of 700 employees, 8 countries.
    Currently I have direction ability over about 7,000 employees in 4 countries.

    Of those, you're right, the vast majority are Windows7 and we will keep it that way. Admittedly, most of the people I deal with are fairly computer savvy. That having been said, we have executives who range in age from 60-80, and they are traditionally our early adopters.

    Several of them did make an effort to trade in their laptops this Christmas for Win8 laptops that would be lighter with touch screens. Part of this is the gizmo war; when you are in their position, it's a sign of power and influence, I suppose. But so far our feedback has been fairly positive and our support curve through our helpdesk hasn't been really anything out of the ordinary.

    I have issues with the core concept of Windows8, but the things it does well it does smashingly well. If you are wanting to carry a quick carry laptop to move things it works quite well. If you are or plan to use more then 2 monitors, it does exceptionally well.

    I'm of the belief that at some point in the Win8 lifestyle, launchable explorer shell will return - something that was present all the way up to RC1 and then dropped out. And I would agree -that- was a huge mistake. To me, the strength of Win8 really was a "flippable" OS, and OS that would operate smashingly well with a Windows7 shell that didn't run as ring0 but launched at any moment, and a touch oriented shell for on the go and a ten foot interface. The removal of that has been an issue, but as so many have made inserting the shell back easy, for now I'll put up with it.
    If you want to argue that front, I would agree... and I view that as a mistake, but an easily correctable one. To me, the significant hardware and networking upgrades as well as storage management improvements do make a big difference and are nice. Remember, for most of us in the IT world, all we do is set them up before our end users get the units.. and those users have a pretty quick grasp of it as a result.
     
  20. Sam Posten

    Sam Posten Moderator
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    Fair enough, so far those who have it have asked for it, you haven't foisted it on anyone yet. =) I'm interested in hearing how that goes. And whether you will support things like additional shells. ie roll out with them by default or only install for those who demand it.
    Consider my customer. The feds won't put any third party shells in. I can't wait to hear how they manage this transition. In about 2 years =p Hopefully we are a 'real' service pack in by then.
    Sam
     

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