Will the Looney Tunes Golden Collection set be completed by 2020? (1 Viewer)

[WillardK]

(fighting my way through the hordes of minority protesters trying to put a stop to Brooks and the Zuckers) Mel Brooks and the Zucker Brothers poked fun at racism and it's absurdity. You could say that they made fun of the fact that audiences used to believe the stereotypes presented in those old cartoons.

I support the availability of the more racist shorts for all interested adults to see. The more information, the better and greater historical perspective... and the fewer people who will buy into the argument that no malicious sentiments are presented, and there are no gags based on a deep seated hatred of entire groups of people. These are artifacts that unsurprisingly reflect (and on some levels served to perpetuate) the attitudes of their time. Some would go so far as to argue that even the less overt shorts are thoroughly codified (and I'd agree, but let's not go there)!

Here's an interesting point/counterpoint pair of articles from the Puerto Rico Herald about Speedy Gonzalez at the Cartoon Network.

There's another page I'd like to link to but can't and won't try anyway as the mods probably would not appreciate it. One result of a search on Speedy led me to a message board discussion decrying the rise of 'political correctness' and the 'Jewess' in control of Cartoon Network's decision (who's reasoning was low ratings as well as negative portrayals). It didn't occur to me that the discussion was much different from others I'd seen on the subject of racism in animation until it just went on and on and on... then I looked up at the header and realized I was at the white supremacist Stormfront.org.

Here's something from a fairly conservative freelance writer's site.

 

[Joe Karlosi]

But wouldn't those insult stutterers?

I mean, where do you draw the PC line..?

 

[WillardK]

That's a typically disingenuous and weak argument that doesn't even merit addressing.

 

[Joe Karlosi]

What a wonderful post, Carlos. Thanks. It's a pleasure to see I'm not the only one who feels exactly this way - especially with regard to the double standard involving the Wayans Brothers and Elmer Fudd. But yet even WillardK, for all his very intelligent and well-thought-out insight, failed to acknowledge that part of it.

 

[Joe Karlosi]

No, it's not. But then again, everyone's entitled to his/her opinion, I suppose (I tried to be careful by including both the male and female)...

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

Here’s the thing about the themes and attitudes portrayed in those cartoons.

The themes expressed my be found unacceptable or in poor taste today.
The themes expressed may have been found funny and tasteful back in the time those cartoons were produced.


Rightly or wrongly those cartoons are an example of the type of humor and the types of attitudes found in the society at the time. This is the type of thing that we can not gloss over today. We may be more “enlightened” now than they were back then, but that is no reason that we can’t look at these cartoons and understand that while we might find them in poor taste they are an accurate representation of how a certain segment of society fealt at a given time.

How we might feel about those themes now, is not a reason to keep them from seeing the light of day. Saying that they were offensive back then, or that they weren’t is not the point. The point is that they were a depiction of how people felt at that time.

Maybe our society would reject these cartoons today and find them horribly offensive, but that is for the society to decide.

When Joe asked about the Porky cartoons being offensive to stutterers he made a point that I don’t know if he was going for but a good one nonetheless.

Whether these cartoons are offensive or not should be decided by the market and not by some executive over at Warner. What if that executive did decide that Porky cartoons were offensive to stutterers and thus would not be released?

If they put the censored cartoons on the market with appropriate disclaimers like Disney did on its war time set and others then if it offends you that they’re out or if the cartoons offend ones sensibilities then show it with your wallet. I’d rather that be determined by the masses not one singular executive.

The people calling for the release of these cartoons are not asking for them because they want to celebrate racism. Like it or not the tone and the subjects of those cartoons are a part of history and are a crystallization of popular attitudes of a given time. They fear that the continued censorship of these cartoons as well as the ever increasing trend towards political correctness is a denial that these attitudes existed in our past.

If you deny it by trying to hide it then you end up repeating it.

These cartoons may not represent attitudes that are ones that we could or should be proud of today. They weren’t intended to represent our ideals of today, these cartoons when first produced some came before the advent of television and all came before home video was popularized. These were not intended to be timeless classics, or to cross all generations they were intended to please audiences at the time.

We can learn from what entertained audiences in the past, and by calling for these cartoons to be available so that we might learn from them, we are not giving our blanket approval to the attitudes or themes of these cartoons.

Carlos by saying that he doesn’t find Speedy offensive makes the other point as to why these cartoons should be released, even if we might not find the content to be in the best taste.

Very few things or especially in entertainment are going to be universally offensive. In other words I might find something objectionable that you have no problem with.

Very few things in entertainment are not going to offend someone.

The point is that we can’t let the fear that someone might be offended be our deturrant because if we do then nothing will be released because nothing is offense proof.


Just because a person calls for a release of these cartoons because they are able to recognize the historical value of them does not mean that they necessarily find the content of such cartoons appropriate. Just because a person emphasizes that these cartoons are a reflection of the trends of the time does not mean that they themselves find those trends acceptable, and it does not mean that they find all of those trends acceptable. In other words, just because I think that those cartoons show the attitudes of the time, does not mean that I wish to make light of serious issues like linching, and I don’t see why that comment was even made.

However, the fact that it was made proves my point entirely. The point is that if we are going to gain historical perspective on a given time period the fact that people found blackface to be funny and the fact that people were linched both need to be taught. You can not exclude the former because of the presence of the latter.

 

[WillardK]

Actually, the initial comment made light of a very serious moment in history. Your suggestion to put things in context is exactly what I did.

 

[WillardK]

Ok... I might have gotten a little overheated. I come here to read others' posts and respond, as it's a discussion site not a soapbox. Benefit of the doubt is often a wise thing and I might have chopped Joe's head off over his Porky comment. Casey is right, there IS a point to be made about the limits set for sensitivity (purple F's instead of red ones anyone?). To me that's such an extension from the central issue at hand that it's practically a seperate topic. In other words, I think it's fair to say that there is some distance between the ridicule of stutterers and the hatred of ethnic groups.

Again, I respect the genuine input that everyone offers in any thread and apologize if I've given an otherwise impression.

No, I never liked dodgeball.

 

[Carlos Garcia]

I never thought the Disney Oscar winning Donald Duck short "Der Feuhrer's Face" would be released, however, Disney did, what in my opinion was the right thing, and released the wartime shorts set, with commentary by Leonard Maltin that acknowledged the shorts as being controversial, and what may be seen as "racist" in today's world. I applaud them for doing this, and only wish Warner Brothers eventually does the same thing with the controversial Looney Tunes cartoons. Perhaps they would consider doing a special "Golden Collection" set that will focus exclusively on the controversial shorts, and this could include commentary tracks and documentaries that will educate the public about what was deemed as funny back then, and how people, and their perception of others, have changed in today's world. I think this would not only be beneficial to the fans of these cartoons, but such a set could be implemented as a learning tool by educational institutions. Let's face it, the bottom line is that these shorts WERE made, and therefore, they are a part of history. Wouldn't ignoring their existence be the same as erasing any mention of slavery from history books? Let's all remember that old saying "Those who fail to remember the past are doomed to repeat it".

 

[Carlos Garcia]

Getting back on topic, in an earlier post Tory mentioned that "Jerry Beck has said over at the animation show forums that the next 8 volumes are planned out". If this is true, is there any mention of what titles will be coming out in Volume 3, or if there is a target release date yet?

 

[Joe Karlosi]

No harm done. I'm glad we've all been able to give our opinions and after all is said and done, the main thing is that we all enjoy these cartoons. Truth be told though, I haven't even bought VOLUME 1 yet (although I've watched just about every second from a friend's copy!) I think I'll be putting both of these on my Christmas Wish List

 

[Jay Pennington]

Jerry Beck did say he had multiple volumes planned out, but that doesn't mean they're officially on the WB production schedule. I'm sure he planned that far because he's a fan like us.

BTW, Porky has been a victim of complaints about his stuttering. While the campaign has gone on for years, from what I can tell it all boils down to a single, tenacious individual making the ruckus.

 

[Casey Trowbridg]

Absolutely, I enjoy reading opinions that differ from mine and as hot button issues go this was considerably less heated than oh, I dunno the Star Wars on DVD discussion for example.

 

[Randy Gray]

I have a question about a Bugs Bunny/Elmer Fudd cartoon. In the Barbara Streisand movie "What's Up Doc" there's a clip at the very end with Bugs and Elmer singing "What's Up Doc." Does anyone know what cartoon this is from and if it's on one of the two Looney Tunes box sets? Always wondered what cartoon that clip was from. Does anyone know?

Randy

 

[Eric Paddon]

It's in the first volume boxed set.

 

[ChrisPearson]

And the cartoon is also called "What's Up Doc".

 

[Anthony Hom]

I guess i'll have to be content with 700 of the 1000 LTs and MMs I have on VHS. FYI, it takes about 16 6 hr tapes.

 

[Carlos Garcia]

I hope in the next set Warner Brothers releases they include a couple of "The Honeymousers" cartoons. I used to love those as a kid and haven't seen them in many years. I'm not even sure if they're available on any other DVD or VHS sets.

 

[Steve_Smith]

I hope the Jack Benny one also isn't forgotten

 

[Patrick McCart]

If Warner keeps up with 60 cartoons per 4-disc set, we should see the last volume released in 2018.

However, I'd expect the last volume sooner since I really doubt they're going to release many of the Roadrunner cartoons made after Chuck Jones left, the Buddy cartoons (maybe one or two), or a lot of the real "stinkers" like Good Night, Elmer.

I think it took 5 years for Turner to put out the 5 volumes of "The Golden Age of Looney Tunes" on laserdisc, which featured no extras (outside of multiple versions of A Wild Hare and Hare Ribbin', some Snafu and Mr. Hook shorts, and the feature-film clips from Two Guys From Texas and My Dream Is Yours) and no restoration. That's just the 1934-1948 color cartoons and Harmon-Ising Merrie Melodies... and minus the 11 "banned" cartoons.