Why The Term "Joe 6 Pack" Must stop being used (1 Viewer)

[Karl Englebright]

I vote that we use "non-enthusiast" as the term to use for people that don't share our hobby/passion...

 

[Jon_W]

Max, I think you underestimate newbies when you state the need to soft peddle them into the HTF frame of mind. I came into this forum with a good understanding of OAR and DVD issues in general, but throughout my time here I have learned far more than I knew coming in. I think people who join the forum maybe put off by the tone of the forum but if they stick with it they will realize that this is a place with simple rules and honourable goals. In time any newbie can learn to understand the mentality here.

You might not want them to join and I think it needs to be understood that this is a Pro-OAR site. If you would like to continue getting widescreen releases we need to convert people. In order to convert them then we need to have their ear and hopefully not while they are on the defensive.

I think this statement shows honourable intentions, however, I think that pro-OAR is so anchored in this forum that having regular friendly chats with people who don't understand OAR would annoy people in this forum. Does everybody remember back when everyday there would be a new Star Wars thread. It got so bad that people would start threads to complain about all the Star Wars threads. I think that same level of frustration would occur if the everyday a new member started a OAR discussion thread. I think we have to accept the fact that people will also wonder what the black bars are but lets not change the constitution of this forum simply to allow for more conversions of J6P. I believe only time and the studios can really create atmosphere where OAR will be as normal as pan&scam.

 

[Robert_eb]

David, how does God advocate fully automatic guns???? That has to be the dumbest statment, of fully automatic gun ownership, I've ever read.

 

[Andrew_Ballew]

One of the problems in our society today is the fear of speech. People are always for free speech as long as they can express their ideas, but when they find someone elses speech offensive, they seek censorship. This is common throughout our media, political groups and eductational institutions. The constitution never guaranteed the right to not be offended, and if we want to really get picky only protects the right to political speech, anyway-but that is another argument for another context.

Being a southern white male myself, I could find great offense with the term Joe Six Pack, as it seems aimed directly at the "good-ole boy" sotherner. It almost seems to be synonymous with "redneck", "hillbilly," etc. True, it seems like the speech police in our country have yet to "ban" derogatory remarks in reference to this group, so it is nice to see someone standing up for discrimination, whether right or wrong, against this demographic of society.

BUT-

the fact remains that we are ALL too scared of speech, and the best solution is not censorship of all potentially offensive material. The only upright solution is no censorship of any offensive materials, including all the currently "politically incorrect" jargon.

As far as your point that offending the enemy will not lead to conversion, though, I tend to think conversion of the enemy that has chosen to be ignorant can only be accomplished through rousing something other than thier intellect. Maybe a little anger and offense is exactly what they need to upstart that intellect.

This is in the end though, an issue that should be addressed by moderators. This is a private forum, so there is no free speech here. The forum for the most part, though, allows the free exhange of ideals and tolerates a lot of potentially offensive speech, if not even vulgarity. (Which to me crosses the line at times into truly censorable material.)

Just the libertarian coming out in me....

Andrew B.

 

[Andrew_Ballew]

David, how does God advocate fully automatic guns???? That has to be the dumbest statment, of fully automatic gun ownership, I've ever read.

I think you completely missed the point of what he was saying. You are quoting him out of context. Although I do not completely agree with his conclusion. Sometimes there really is such a thing as comparing apples and oranges, and IMO gun education and Home Theater education truly are apples and oranges.

Andrew B.

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

If we could drop the gun issue before it gets drawn into another silly political debate, I'd appreciate it.
David- I understand your point- and agree we are all J6P in some degree- but unlike you, I have no problem with that. My ego would not be brusied in your example, and if it were something I was actually interested in, I would certainly stick around.
I think Max has made some excellent points here- I guess I just fall in the middle. I like the idea of respecting people and trying to do a little educating (attracting flies with Honey so to speak)-- but at the same time I still think that it's fair to offer some basic terminology for those who chose to remain ignorant. If you want to change it from J6P to make it more tolerant, fine with me... how about "the great unwashed"
-V

 

[Kraig Lang]

"As far as your point that offending the enemy will not lead to conversion, though, I tend to think conversion of the enemy that has chosen to be ignorant can only be accomplished through rousing something other than thier intellect. Maybe a little anger and offense is exactly what they need to upstart that intellect."
Damn That's a great Paragraph, can I steal it from you?

 

[Patrick McCart]

Most OAR supporters THINK that people who buy non-OAR DVD's are idiots, bumpkins, and imbeciles.

The truth is that both casual movie buyers and serious movie buyers will buy from both pools. I only started my interest in OAR-only in 2000...does that make me an idiot for having over 20 P&S VHS tapes? One of my favorite movies is one I grew fond of in P&S. I'm not a J6P, am I?

If you put a widescreen DVD on a TV and have what you call a "Joe Six Pack" watch it, they'll probably not care!

I presented a LBX VHS of West Side Story to a classroom full of people who could care less about widescreen video and they enjoyed it. I know people who know nothing about film processes and etc, but prefer OAR presentation.

If the studios recalled all P&S-only product and replaced them with OAR only, few people would complain. If everyone gets used to it, it'll be fine.

After all, if the 2.35:1 ratio was used from the start, everyone would think 1.33:1 is weird!

 

[Holadem]

Remember, except for those people with limitless financial and time resources, we are all "J6P"'s in some areas of our lives (maybe most?).

So?
That is one huuuuuuge statement of the obvious
I don't think anyone said the opposite. Like you, I know little about cars. Should a car enthousiast call me J6P, I would have zero problem with it... because its true. I do not see a car the same way he/she does.
Really, you gentlemen are reading too much into this. On every place on this planet where hobbyists are gathering, they call non-hobbyists J6P, or a variant of the term. The only people likely to be offended by this are people who believe they are experts in everything.
I do not care for such people and don't mind offending them
--
Holadem

 

[Joseph S]

I vote for "sucker."
Thanks Sam's club for stating to my face that Ocean's 11 was not released in Widescreen and that there were no new releases from Disney this week aside from Pooh.
I feel bad for these people. They are being lied to and the studios aren't doing a thing to help out the situation. If a studio is going to put ads/trailer on DVD insert, they should include one on "Why Widescreen?"
Most people don't have the time to sort out whether or not a title is available in widescreen or the reason for the difference. There needs to be more educational material on the P & S discs about availability of the disc in Widescreen and what Widescreen is.
Now that I've got near non-stop studying for the next month+ to do you can call me "J2LPerHour."

 

[John_McKittrick]

I say keep using it and any other term that describes the enemy. It is these people that 'scraggler' stores like Walmart say are complaining about 'the black bars'. If this is the only concern and threat to some people they seriously need to get a life.

John

 

[LarryDavenport]

I had a friend, who's Dad made somewhere in the low 6 figures back in the late 80's. I've lost touch with them, but at the time, my friend's Dad was a home theater nut and always had the greatest equipment (Macintosh amps, 4 Bose 901 speakers, laserdisc player, a projection TV, etc.). He had this awesome setup with a huge 8 foot screen. Yet he would not buy letterboxed LDs (or any black and white movies) because he paid for a big screen, so he wanted it filled; it was a color TV, so he only wanted to watch color movies.

Because of his background and income I don't think you could call him Joe 6 Pack. I thought he was an idiot and I still do. He didn't love movies like the majority of people in the HTF. I think he enjoyed having the biggest "tube" on the block.

Frankly, I think the HTF is big enough without encouraging people who don't believe in OAR to join us so we can change their opinion. How many people here have changed their opinion because of a post? Not many I suspect.

Those of us who truly love movies and have been pro-OAR are why there was a healthy laserdisc market. We were the ones who kept the DVD market afloat while waiting for Joe Six Pack (or Joe Lunchpale or whatever you want to call them) to catch up. Now the studios, thanks to Blockheadbuster, want to abandon us in favor of a bunch of people who will never buy as many discs as we do, people who will just rent whatever is popular at the time.

If you are going to cater to these people, give them there own section of the board.

 

[Shawn C]

Blockheadbuster

Now that's funny.
If someone gets their feelings hurt from the term "Joe Six Pack", they have bigger problems then being a, or being called a "Joe Six Pack".
I've seen people call movie reviewers flat-out idiots on this board before.

 

[MaxY]

OK I am not saying that we encourage people with a non-OAR viewpoint to become members of HTF and I am not saying that the use of the term should be banned as I don't like censorship at all.
I am saying that the posters of the forum should not keep discussing the people who are not widescreen fans in such a poor light.
I want Widescreen to reach as many people as possible!!
Now I would bet that there are many people that take part in this forum that could not give a damn about widescreen or 4x3 issues, but they know better then to discuss it.
I am also saying that there are most likely a whole lot more who read this forum that don't really care about the issue much. You know the kind that are whatever I get I get.
I don't want to so much see the term banned I just want to see some of the hate toned down.
In that thread the other day that caused so much trouble, it was because people did not consider the non-posting readers that might have been studio execs or what not.
I am saying that we need to consider the non-posting people that might not have had the widescreen light go on yet.
If you talk to people that are not huge-enthusisats yet and you ask them about the widescreen VS Full Frame debate and they know anything at all they know the widescreeners to be a rabid almost insane bunch of people. I am not saying we are all that way but enough that people are seeing us that way.
I am not saying to hug or support those 4x3 video people or even let them preach 4x3 here, I am saying don't treat them badly and who knows they may see the light.
Max

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Because of his background and income I don't think you could call him Joe 6 Pack.

I do. Background and income make no difference here. He knew the truth but didn't care to nurse he ego. That makes him J6P in my book. Just like someone making the low 5 figures watching movies OAR on a 19" screen is not J6P, despite his background.

Personally, I could care less if someone called me a Joe Six Pack. In many areas they're probably right. I don't think we need to P.C.ize the term. Does a rose by any other name not smell as sweet? Same thing in reverse here.

 

[Sean Bryan]

A bit of topic, but somewhat related:
Personally, I find the whole obsession in our society of late with trying not to be offensive and changing terms to more P.C. versions and all that bullshit to be, well.....offensive (actually more disgusting than offensive).
Yes, no one should go out of their way to be mean or hateful to anyone, but Jeeze, there are better things to worry about.
Political correctness sucks! Achie Bunker was a GOD!
Back on topic:
Anyway, there's nothing wrong with the "Joe 6-pack" term. Although, maybe it would be more appropriate if we changed it to something like "jackass 6-pack". That's actually more accurate, because it better fits the "choose to be ignorant" mindset that the term describes.

 

[Damin J Toell]

I don't understand the desire to insult someone who disagrees with you when the goal is to educate/inform as many people as possible about your point of view. Not only are the insults simply uncalled for, they work against the pro-OAR cause by annoying the supposed targets of the cause. When education and insults are delivered simultaneously, it's nearly a guarantee that all the reader/listener will see/hear is the insult. The message is lost because of someone's inability to contain their desire to insult all those who disagree or are otherwise uninformed. So, at the end of the day, no one learns anything. Instead of having a new OAR supporter, we've got someone who is now both uneducated and pissed off. One step forward and two steps back.

If only we could educate without the elitist/insulting attitude, we might get somewhere.

DJ

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

And a bigot! Great choice in deities.

Let's stay on topic here kids.

-Vince

 

[Jeff Swindoll]

Thanks Sam's club for stating to my face that Ocean's 11 was not released in Widescreen and that there were no new releases from Disney this week aside from Pooh.

Awh feel yur pain!! Been looking for those "unreleased" Vault Disney flicks at my Sam's as well to no avail. :frowning:

 

[Edwin-S]

Because of his background and income I don't think you could call him Joe 6 Pack.
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No.......he was a Joe wine cooler.