Why hate towards flipper blu ray discs?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Nelson Au, Jan 28, 2011.

  1. Nelson Au

    Nelson Au Executive Producer

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    Just a quick question. The Best Buy set of the new blu ray of RED has the comic extra and the disc is a flipper, BD one side and DVD the side.


    Why all the hate towards flippers? Or perhaps I am seeing perceived hate. Is there enough evidence out there now that a blu ray flipper will fail or has playback problems? I do prefer what Disney does and provides the film on DVD as an extra disc. Worth the cost to me.

    But this seems like a good value for the consumer. I'll probably try to get RED with the Best Buy extras.


    Perhaps this is more a philosophical problem, that you should bot mix formats? I guess when Toshiba was doing it with their HD-DVD's, there was hate then too. I have the first release of Star Trek TOS Season One on those Hybrid discs and I'm glad it still has the DVD side and still works! Of course I got the blu ray set too.
     
  2. AlexF

    AlexF Supporting Actor

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    Historically flippers have been crap. Until the new BR/DVD ones prove themselves, I think that people will automatically assume that their quality is crap.
     
  3. Charles Smith

    Charles Smith Extremely Talented Member
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    That, plus: Discs with no label art look low-rent. And they take extra care to pick up and handle safely, for no good reason.
     
  4. Douglas Monce

    Douglas Monce Producer

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    What extra care is needed? Don't you always handle your discs by the edges?


    Doug
     
  5. RickER

    RickER Producer

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    I had to many problems with the DVD-18s, because of that i now have a bias against 2 sided discs...of any kind.


    I also hate DVDs that have widescreen on one side, and full screen on the other. I ALWAYS seem to end up with the fullscreen side playing, when i wanted widescreen!


    Thats right, when i buy RED, it will not be the BB version.


    And here i used to love laser disc! Go figure.
     
  6. Scott-S

    Scott-S Cinematographer
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    I will not buy (knowingly) a "flipper" disc. We are paying good money, I don't think the risk of scratches/fingerprints/errors is worth the $0.50 cents more profit the studios make by skimping. Plus I can never see which side should be up. I know it is labled, but in the low light of a movie watching room makes the task of trying to read the fine print on the disca challenge for me. I shouldn't have to worry about the extra risk of scratches just to save the studios some money.


    There is nothing good about them for the consumer, only negatives. The only one pushing these is the studios. That should tell you something.
     
  7. Mark Booth

    Mark Booth Screenwriter
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    I think you guys are talking about COMBO discs. Discs with Blu-ray on one side and DVD on the other are COMBO discs, not flipper discs.


    A flipper disc is one where the movie is spread to two different sides of the same disc type (such as a DVD on both sides). They are called "flippers" because you have to get up during the middle of the movie and flip it over to finish the movie. Or, maybe the special features are on the second side. You have to get up and flip it over to see the special features.


    Blu-ray on one side and DVD on the other side is a COMBO disc. I own a number of HD DVD/DVD combo discs and I've never had an issue with any of them.


    Mark
     
  8. Nelson Au

    Nelson Au Executive Producer

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    Fair enough comments so far. I think the last post is a good clarification of flipper verses combo. In regards to DVD-18, sure, I myself had some issues with the MGM The Outer Limits set. I had to exchange my first set as one episode was badly pixellating and unplayable. That was it though in terms of playback issues. And my only HD-DVD combo disc set of Star Trek TOS still plays fine. In terms of scratches, I've read that comment a lot, but I am curious. Has there been a definite measurable example? I don't mean to offend or accuse anyone of anything. I've never scratched any disc, CD, DVD, DVD-18, laserdisc, HD-DVD, or blu ray. I can't see how a flipper or combo disc is more sensitive to scratching. Again, I'm just asking. :) So it will be interesting to see if blu ray/DVD survives based on market demand. And if they tend to fail, separate or scratch.
     
  9. Scott-S

    Scott-S Cinematographer
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    Nelson, if you havn't had a scratch, you are lucky. You must not let kids/teens/parants touch them. I still have nightmares of "lending" a dvd movie to my nephew who was visiting. When I went to get the disc back, it was sitting on the concrete basement floor, data side on the concrete. In the perfect place to get stepped on. All he did when he was done with it was toss it on the floor.


    I have noticed that Blu-Rays are much better at not getting scratches. I wonder if that would be true on a double sided disc?


    It really doesn't matter to me if it is a "Flipper" or a "Combo". I don't like have both sides scratchable.


    The only reason you would want a DVD version of a Blu-Ray movie is if you wanted it to play somewhere else like a car or while you travel.Having them on the same disc is just asking for bad things. I don't think having your kids watching your blu-ray disc (DVD side) in the car is a wise thing. I like Disney's approach. One Blu-ray for the HT, and a DVD for the car.
     
  10. Adam Gregorich

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    From a convenience aspect its nice to have two individual discs, having said that I don't mind flippers and bought the Best Buy version of Red because it was the best value. In the past one of the biggest complaints about flippers in other threads was how you had to read the super small font to figure out which side to put up. In the Best Buy version of RED they used bigger font and had an insert in the case explaining it in basic terms. I thought they did a good job with it. Summit has used BUD flippers before.
     
  11. Douglas Monce

    Douglas Monce Producer

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    Yes but the nephew situation would happen if it was a flipper or not.


    Blu-ray discs are covered with an anti scratch coating, which is applied after the disc is sandwiched together. Both sides of a flipper will have it.


    I don't know I guess I'm the only guy who handles my CDs, DVDs and blu-rays like I use to handle my record collection. CAREFULLY.


    Doug
     
  12. Douglas Monce

    Douglas Monce Producer

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    Believe me having just had to move into progressive glasses, I'm sympathetic to reading the small print, but frankly, with the new glasses, its just not an issue.


    Doug
     
  13. Nelson Au

    Nelson Au Executive Producer

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    Scott, Yes, I don't lend my discs out. And I do handle with care and I never lay the data side down on anything rough. I just got back from errands and also got the Best Buy SE of RED. Let's see how well it holds up! I was going to say that the combo and flipper discs are probably suffering from a perception problem based on early problems. Given a choice, I'd prefer to get a separate DVD too included in the blu ray set. But for this case, RED, I'll take it.
     
  14. DaveF

    DaveF Moderator
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    Well, I could do a search and copy/paste my comments from the last time there was a discussion on flippers. I'll suffice to say that I thought flippers were a really great idea for DVD...until I bought one, and found it's a nuisance with no benefit to me, the owner. So I have no interest in Blu flippers, if I can avoid them.
     
  15. Sam Posten

    Sam Posten Moderator
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    I never knew they went through with this stuff, just got my first flipper, Louie. So it seems they ARE doing these with seasons if not box sets... will report bck, but price wasn't a hold back at $10 for the combo...
     
  16. Sam Favate

    Sam Favate Producer

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    I thought we were past the point of the double-sided disc. I have several that have problems, and I have no interest in new ones, whether they are DVD-18, DVD/BD or the dreaded DualDisc (CD/DVD, which had plenty of problems too). As I recall, there was a double-sided disc used by Warner several years ago that worked better than the 18s, but still had its share of problems (the later seasons of NYPD Blue come to mind). Also, it's a different thing to place a disc in a tray and let it play than to put it in more modern computers and BD players which only have a slot. The tray tolerated discs better, but most players I have now have slots.


    No double-sided discs of any kind, please!
     

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