Why are so many series stalled or stopped? (1 Viewer)

[Marty M]

I am encouraged about the prospects of finally getting the entire series of my all-time favorite sitcom, Mary Tyler Moore Show.

 

[kemcha]

Leave it to Beaver
Mr. Peepers
Big Valley
Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea (although I'd still like to believe they'll finish this one - but it's not a given)
Flipper
Rawhide
Happy Days
Cheyenne
Police Woman
Fantasy Island
Dragnet
Make Room for Daddy
Naked City
Lone Ranger

The problem you're not discussing is that if a series is still being published, it isn't stopped or stalled. More than likely? It's just on a temporary hiatus. Everybody knows that the Happy Days is infested with music rights issues and it takes time for the studio to decide on how to handle the release. Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea has also seen various releases. Just because the releases aren't coming out every three or four months doesn't mean it's stalled or abandoned.
Additionally, the slowdown in releases is more than likely due to the current market forces in retail that have forced many studios to slow down TV DVD releases and sell their current inventories. Just take a look at what a lot of studios are currently doing. Many studios are clearing existing inventory supplies by packaging many of their television shows into two pack sets such as Everybody Loves Raymond Season 3/4 pack, Waltons Season 1/2 pack, Sliders Season 3/4 pack and many others.

Once the economy starts picking up again, you'll find Universal, Warner Brothers, Paramount and Fox picking back up with the releases of those shows that had halted. All in the Family, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, Chips were all getting decent releases at a regular release and even such shows as Flipper were just recently released when Wall Street crashed and burned in 2008. I think Flipper Season 2 would have been released in 2008 had Wall Street not affected the markets.

Shoot even Fox had outsourced NYPD Blue to another company and the economy even hurt the release of that show.

 

[Gary OS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kemcha The problem you're not discussing is that if a series is still being published, it isn't stopped or stalled. More than likely? It's just on a temporary hiatus... Just because the releases aren't coming out every three or four months doesn't mean it's stalled or abandoned.

Once the economy starts picking up again, you'll find Universal, Warner Brothers, Paramount and Fox picking back up with the releases of those shows that had halted.


I guess we can all dare to dream. But I think that's all a lot of that is - a dream. Let's just say I'm going to agreeably disagree with you. Some of those shows might see a comeback, but like I said earlier we can make that statement about anything the future holds. Heck, living here in Florida I can say it might snow tomorrow night. Probably not, but it might. It's just that the probabilities and percentages are very small. That's how I see a lot of the series that you think are sure things when the economy picks up. Might happen, but probably not as far as I'm concerned.

And we aren't talking about shows only being off the schedule for 3 or 4 months. We are talking, in some instances, about years (plural) going by. In those instances the show has been shelved/abandoned.

Gary "take care, and no hard feelings - we just see things differently" O.

 

[MattPeriolat]

Originally Posted by Gary OS

Quote:

I can state categorically that the following shows are abandoned as of this moment:

Leave it to Beaver
Mr. Peepers
Big Valley
Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea (although I'd still like to believe they'll finish this one - but it's not a given)
Flipper
Rawhide
Happy Days
Cheyenne
Police Woman
Fantasy Island
Dragnet
Make Room for Daddy
Naked City
Lone Ranger

I, for one, think Gary is absolutely right about shows basically being left to twist in the wind and he lists some great cases. Frankly, Lone Ranger, Dragnet and LITB bother me the most, although all those shows deserve fair hearings. I wish I could provide a simple, one cause explanation for all of them be it economy or low sales, but I think there is a third factor to be considered and that's studio apathy.

Studios these days are less interested in putting out older shows that might sell a few hundred units (speaking in general terms here) vs. a current show that might sell a few thousand units. Don't believe me? CBS/P famous "We Put TV On A Pedestal" ad campaign was back this year but whereas last year it had Lucy, My Three Sons and other classics front and center, this year you needed a magnifying glass to find the classics. All the more current shows got the spotlight.

Bottom line: unless the show is a universally known show like a Lucy or a Twilight Zone, it's not going to get a big push, it's not going to get advertised well and the studios will be looking for any excuse to just stop doing the show as quickly as possible, usually using the sales figures as their excuse. Their logic falls apart when comparing marketing strategies for a classic show vs. a current show, plus the push to put out more seasons of a currently "hot" show vs. one that may not have been seen anywhere outside of syndication for a number of years.

Frankly, it stinks and I hate it too. It's why I make it a point to try and buy a classic show I may be interested in as quickly as I can. True, my 30 bucks is a drop in the bucket, but at least it's spoken for continuing the project. And we know studio folks do read these boards so the more we talk, the more the message gets across. I really want to believe that someday all the stalled series will get sold again or that shows that we've been asking for will finally see the light of day, but the pessimist in me says to be content that we got a season at all. That's usually when the activist stands up and asks why accept the status quo?

In the end, thank goodness for Shout!, Timeless and Mill Creek, otherwise most of this stuff would never see the light of day, not with current attitudes that would rather crank out all the seasons of Married... with Children before we get even get a show like VTTBOS finished or a show like LA Law even started.

Hmph.

 

[Neil Brock]

Leave it to Beaver
Mr. Peepers
Big Valley
Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea (although I'd still like to believe they'll finish this one - but it's not a given)
Flipper
Rawhide
Happy Days
Cheyenne
Police Woman
Fantasy Island
Dragnet
Make Room for Daddy
Naked City
Lone Ranger

Adding to your small list:
Baretta, Green Acres, Night Gallery, Hardy Boys, Here Come the Brides, Family, Maude, All in the Family, The Jeffersons, SWAT, The Rookies, White Shadow, Hill Street Blues, St. Elsewhere, Flying Nun, Baa Baa Black Sheep, Night Gallery, Love American Style, Mod Squad, Streets of San Francisco, Laverne and Shirley, Beverly Hillbillies, Petticoat Junction, Craig Kennedy Criminologist, Lawless Years, What's Happening Now, Bob Newhart Show, The Equalizer. And I'm sure others could add plenty more to the list.

 

[Gary OS]

Yep, Neil. There are quite a few. A couple more that come to mind include: Hazel, Kojak, Chips, Family Ties and potentially Quincy (although I think we have to wait a bit longer to see what happens with that one). I had held off listing Beverly Hillbillies and Petticoat Junction in hopes that CBS/P would change their mind and put these back on the schedule, but as of right now you are correct in that they are both stalled out.

Gary "there are plenty of stalled out/abandoned series that may never see more releases" O.

 

[kemcha]

Well, we can agree that there are countless number of television shows that have yet to be completed.

However, I suspect that once we see the economy to start to turn around and more and more employers hiring new workers to get those unemployment numbers down that we'll see many of these television shows completed as the studios start scheduling more season sets.

Currently, studios have lowered the number of seasons sets that they used to release and I suspect that production will ramp back up once the U.S. economy rebounds.

 

[MattPeriolat]

Originally Posted by kemcha

Well, we can agree that there are countless number of television shows that have yet to be completed.

However, I suspect that once we see the economy to start to turn around and more and more employers hiring new workers to get those unemployment numbers down that we'll see many of these television shows completed as the studios start scheduling more season sets.

Currently, studios have lowered the number of seasons sets that they used to release and I suspect that production will ramp back up once the U.S. economy rebounds.

In theory, you are correct, but the problem is practice. Even in the heyday of TV on DVD, we still had the problem of some shows only getting a season or two on DVD, then being left to twist in the wind. Even a boom time in the economy is not going to increase sales on older shows or encourage studios to look past, say 1990, for strong sales and even then, it's a maybe.

 

[TravisR]

Originally Posted by MattPeriolat

Even in the heyday of TV on DVD, we still had the problem of some shows only getting a season or two on DVD, then being left to twist in the wind.

Exactly. It's certainly not a new phenomenon and an economic upturn probably isn't going to make the studios release the rest of The Larry Sanders Show or Leave It To Beaver or the many other shows that are sitting on the shelf after one or two sets. They didn't sell so the studios aren't going to keep putting money into what they, unfortunately, see as a losing or not-profitable-enough venture.

Having said that, I think the studios might have benched SOME shows until the economy picks up. I think the best hope for some of the more high profile unreleased shows is that they could get licensed out to smaller companies once the economy rebounds.

 

[RickER]

You know, i am a fan of some old obscure shows that are not on DVD.

Here is the deal, its not because of a bad economy, or the rise of Blu-ray that * insert your show here * is not on DVD. It could be because some of your shows, like mine, were a flop when they aired, or they failed in syndication 40 YEARS AGO.

Come on, we had a slow down of TV on DVD before the economy. If it wont sell, it wont sell. I LOVED BCI's DVDs..loved Ark II, and Jason of Star Command. But BCI is dead now because they didn't sell enough of my old favorites. Is that what you guys wish on Shout Factory, or any of the other independents?

Some of these shows in the various wish lists are deader than DEAD! I would love to have Fantastic Journey on DVD. But really, it was a flop that lasted 13 episodes, and that was over 30 years ago! The only reason it could happen, is cause it only has 13 episodes! Also, god knows if i can buy Quark, anything is possible. It was only 6 episodes, not much of a risk. I bet it didn't sell a million either. But really who thinks * insert your classic, dead, show of choice* will make the studios some money!

Maybe if people could say WHY The Fantastic Journey would be a good, low risk, sure sell on DVD, and tell the studio we would see it. Since i cant think of a reason, other than i would like to see this old flop...I think it would be a hard sell. Same with * Your Show*

I hope i didn't step on any toes. That why i only listed ONE show i would like to see, and kept away from anyone else's.

But i am pretty sure we can stop blaming Blu-ray as the big reason classic TV is in a slump.

 

[bretmaverick2]

As has been stated above, the quick answer is SALES OF PRIOR SEASONS.

If the sets of a particular series aren't selling well, unfortunately, our desire to complete the series is secondary to the producing companies need to turn a profit from the sales.

While I am sure it doesn't make many of us happy, it is the sad reality.

 

[Malcolm R]

It's also been said that each season release sells less than the previous season sets. So if Season One was profitable, and Season Two just barely breaks even, it's pretty likely the studio will lose money on Season 3, so why release it?

This is why I'd like to see a "on demand" service for TV shows, like Warner's Archive releases. Or that they take advantage of the capacity of BR technology to release TV season sets in a more economically viable format.

 

[kemcha]

I think you've hit on it, Malcolm. The problem is that first season sets generally sell more but are often dropped by consumers except for those who continue to buy the future sets. I think the problem is that studios often take too much time releasing the rest of the sets, with some studios taking six months between each season release.

I think that if studios want to keep selling future sets of a particular series that they need to stagger the releases on average between two months and three months between each set. Paramount was able to do the bi-monthly release with the Star Trek season sets and got every series out on a regular basis.

 

[MattPeriolat]

Originally Posted by kemcha Paramount was able to do the bi-monthly release with the Star Trek season sets and got every series out on a regular basis.

Yeah, but that's Star Trek we're talking about. Big fanbase of people you know are going to buy it. Like with Lucy and Twilight Zone, you are pretty sure it's going to sell and sell well. That same business model is not going to apply to other shows because they lack such a large fan base.

Breaks my heart about BCI. I loved the product, but I'm sorry, Masters of the Universe was priced way too high for half seasons. Of course, I'm paying for it now. Live and you learn.

 

[Neil Brock]

Originally Posted by RickER

Some of these shows in the various wish lists are deader than DEAD! I would love to have Fantastic Journey on DVD. But really, it was a flop that lasted 13 episodes, and that was over 30 years ago! The only reason it could happen, is cause it only has 13 episodes! Also, god knows if i can buy Quark, anything is possible. It was only 6 episodes, not much of a risk. I bet it didn't sell a million either. But really who thinks * insert your classic, dead, show of choice* will make the studios some money!

Maybe if people could say WHY The Fantastic Journey would be a good, low risk, sure sell on DVD, and tell the studio we would see it. Since i cant think of a reason, other than i would like to see this old flop...I think it would be a hard sell. Same with * Your Show*

I hope i didn't step on any toes. That why i only listed ONE show i would like to see, and kept away from anyone else's.

But i am pretty sure we can stop blaming Blu-ray as the big reason classic TV is in a slump.

I'll go you one better. I have shows that I want that flopped 30, 40, 50 years ago and that haven't aired since. At least the show you named, Fantastic Journey, ran on SciFi Channel in the 90s. Maybe you taped it, maybe you didn't. But I'm sure you could easily find someone who did, if it was that important to you. There's shows that I want, like The Eleventh Hour, Slattery's People, Hank and The Americans, which have not aired anywhere on the planet in decades. Sure, it would be nice to have uncut, remastered, good quality copies of shows we love. But that's not possible. So I have one of my favorites, The Immortal, as a mix of Armed Forces Network airings from beat up 16mm prints and SciFi remasters that were cut by 6 minutes an episode. Ideal? No. But at least I can watch the show when I want to.

By the way, are there still people who use the moronic phrase, "Everything will be available"?

 

[Corey3rd]

Quark has always had a cult buzz to it. and the fact that all 8 episodes fit on a single DVD made it a bit easier to release. It's easier to see a studio "committing" to a series that people still remember after 30 years and doesn't require 8 releases.

I don't subscribe to the everything will be available since there are numerous copyright issues that can tangle up a release.

 

[kemcha]

I understand that, really. But there are many shows that are purchased by fans that would actually sell a moderate number of copies. Law and Order Prime, Sliders (one season to go), Invisible Man (one season to go), Baa Baa Black Sheep (one collection left to go), Hardy Boys (one season left to go), Charlie's Angels (one season to go) and probably many more.

 

[David Levine]

The 80s series? Those half seasons were 33 episodes on six DVD9s. And they had an MSRP that was 2/3rd of the similar half seasons of Thundercats.

They sold through the roof and were also the biggest money makers in the history of BCI, so I think they were probably priced right.

Originally Posted by MattPeriolat



Breaks my heart about BCI. I loved the product, but I'm sorry, Masters of the Universe was priced way too high for half seasons. Of course, I'm paying for it now. Live and you learn.

 

[David Levine]

It hasn't shown to matter. The casual viewers just outnumber the hardcore fans by so much. People don't buy subsequent seasons for a number of reasons:

1. They bought the first and realized they didn't like the show as much as they remembered.
2. The blind bought the first season and didn't like it.
3. They bought it, enjoyed it, but decided they didn't need any more.
4. They bought it and it still sits unwatched on their shelf, and they don't want to buy anymore until they watch it.
5. Most people aren't collectors or completists. It feels like it because those are the people that post on forums, but we're a vocal minority.

Its not timeframe dependent, its show dependent. Some shows just always sell. The Simpsons, despite having 12 seasons out, still sells huge numbers. And had almost no drop off over the first 4 seasons. 24, The Shield and Lost have had smaller than average drop off in the early seasons. You can release Seasons 1 and 2 on the same day and you'll likely see Season 2 only do 70-80% of Season 1.

Originally Posted by kemcha

I think you've hit on it, Malcolm. The problem is that first season sets generally sell more but are often dropped by consumers except for those who continue to buy the future sets. I think the problem is that studios often take too much time releasing the rest of the sets, with some studios taking six months between each season release.

I think that if studios want to keep selling future sets of a particular series that they need to stagger the releases on average between two months and three months between each set. Paramount was able to do the bi-monthly release with the Star Trek season sets and got every series out on a regular basis.

 

[MattPeriolat]

Originally Posted by David Levine

The 80s series? Those half seasons were 33 episodes on six DVD9s. And they had an MSRP that was 2/3rd of the similar half seasons of Thundercats.

They sold through the roof and were also the biggest money makers in the history of BCI, so I think they were probably priced right.

You got me there, I only saw them priced at 35 bucks at retail big box stores and never caved for them. Now would give my right arm for another chance.

And at the 19.99 prices for Thundercats earlier this year. Why do classic cartoons have to be so dad blamed expensive?