Which type of TV should I get

Discussion in 'Displays' started by DanielKellmii, Apr 10, 2004.

  1. DanielKellmii

    DanielKellmii Supporting Actor

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    I going to buy a new TV to go with a new entertainment center we are getting. First the TV, then the center. I have been looking around and I am a bit overwhelmed. I want something at least 40inches that is capable of HD from a DVD player. I don't watch enough TV to care about broadcast or cable, just movies. I have done some research, which I tend to over-do usually, and have made some decisions.
    I want a 50 in HDTV Plasma, my wallet doesn't. [​IMG]
    Forget the RPTV, too big. The wife finds them too ugly. I also don't like the way the picture looks. Although, recently the quality has been much improved and they are the best "bang for the buck" in my limited judgement.
    LCD, not quite big enough yet.
    LCOS, Hmmmm, interesting.
    DLP, Also interesting.
    Good 'ol CRT. Well, the 40 inch Sony is out there but that is also big and expensive.
    Front Projector. Definitely in the future, but not now.


    So I am trying to compare LCOS (isn't that the projection LCD?) with the DLP systems. Is either one clearly superior? From what I can see, they have there good and bad points.
    Any guidance out there?
    Yes, I did check out the primer. I also read some of what Vince has been posting from his book.
    My budget is about $1500 - $2000 and I can be patient. I don't need it right now, so I can wait until some new models come out.

    Thanks
     
  2. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    1. As of yet there's no such thing as HD from a DVD player. There are players that will upconvert 480p to 1080i and output the signal via DVI connections, but this is not true HD.

    2. There are plenty of 42" plasmas out there that are not HD capable but will display the equivalent of 480p, they're designated as EDTV. Many of these are pretty bad at smearing on fast moving images. Panasonic's EDTV models are very highly regarded but still way out of your price range.

    3. LCOS sets are pretty much vaporware right now. LCD bases sets like the Sony Grand Wega III are well liked by many, but aren't available in your price range, same can be said for the DLP models.

    4. There are any number of very good 43-48" crt based widescreen rptvs in your price range that are "table models" and differ in proportions from the dlp and lcd sets only in that they are deeper, not any higher or wider.
    Viewed from the front they are indistinguishable from the LCD or DLP sets, and don't have the huge box appearance which would be hidden by your entertainment center anyway.
    Go compare the frontal appearance of a Sony KP46WT510 crt based set to one of their LCD based Grand Wegas.

    In actuality a $1500 crt based set, correctly adjusted, will produce a better picture than a DLP or LCD model costing $1000 more. Blacks are deeper, no screen door or rainbow effects.
     
  3. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    For $2k you are not going to find a newer technology 40"+ TV set. You will easily find a 57" Or less CRT Big screen but those will be big. If you want small yet throws a big screen like 40" you are going to pay unless you want to just put up with EDTV and 42". The 42" Plasma for that range are pretty low end and pretty poor for the most part. To get a decent one and still live with EDTV you are going to pay $3k heavily discounted. You can either go big and deal with the "large" set and get the best picture available right now or you can keep waiting and waiting.

    For me I'm making due as those 100+ page threads with DLP/LCD/LCOS problems definitely scare me. They are definitely not ready for primetime.
     
  4. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    My philosophy as far as HT has always been function and affordability first and furniture last.

    Rather than purchase an "entertainment center" and then try to find a tv that fits, I get the best gear for the money and worry about the decor later if at all.

    The stores are full of large screen crt based sets with better pq than any of the new technologies can offer at this time, for much lower prices than Plasma, LCD, or DLP.

    The one exception is most probably some of the new relatively cheap Front Projectors which can throw an 80 to 100 inch picture for under $2k, are compact enough to put anywhere. The screen can drop out of the ceiling so there need be virtually no impact on room decor. I think one still has to have a dark room for these to work, however.
     
  5. DanielKellmii

    DanielKellmii Supporting Actor

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    Is the picture quality on a CRT based read projector better than the other technologies out there? Hmmmmm, in that case I have some work to do to convince my wife that a set 27inches deep is OK.
     
  6. Gregg Loewen

    Gregg Loewen Video Standards Instructor, THX Ltd.
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    Much better (in a light controlled environment).

    Regards

    Gregg
     
  7. DanielKellmii

    DanielKellmii Supporting Actor

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    Gregg, do you think a room with vertical blinds that block about half the light would be "light controlled" enough?
     
  8. Gregg Loewen

    Gregg Loewen Video Standards Instructor, THX Ltd.
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    not for optimal viewing during the day time.
     
  9. DanielKellmii

    DanielKellmii Supporting Actor

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    Do DLPs and LCD projection screen have the same problem? Other than a CRT, does any other type handle ambient light better than the others?
     
  10. Gregg Loewen

    Gregg Loewen Video Standards Instructor, THX Ltd.
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    DLPs and LCDs have similar problems (bad at blacks). Both are much better with ambient light as they are much brighter. Also no burn in with either technology.

    Regards

    Gregg
     
  11. EdHoch

    EdHoch Stunt Coordinator

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    Daniel,

    Sorry co-opt your thread here, but I've got basically the same question you have!

    I'm looking to upgrade my television (the 15 year-old 27" Mitsubishi has seen better days)

    Anyway, I am constrained by the "entertainment area" built into the wall in my house.

    The area is flat to the floor, height is 81" so no worries there, the width is 45.5" and the depth is 24".

    My max budget is $2K, so I'm looking at RPT. Any recommendations would be most welcome. I was looking at the Sony KP-46WT510, (H40" W42.8" D24") but at a depth of 24" do I need to be sure there is some space (for ventilation, cords etc?)

    Other options , based solely on CNET reviews (are they any good?) are a couple of Toshibas (46H83 and 42H83) The 42H81 got a good review, but not sure if that's an "old" model.

    Looked at Consumer Reports, but they focused on the 54"+ which I can't fit anyway...

    I am very much a novice at this, so please use small words and explain acronyms.

    Thanks in Advance for the sage advice!

    Ed
     
  12. Gregg Loewen

    Gregg Loewen Video Standards Instructor, THX Ltd.
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    the Toshibas have greatly IMPROVED since the H81 series.

    Regards

    Gregg
     
  13. DanielKellmii

    DanielKellmii Supporting Actor

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    [​IMG]
    MINE MINE MINE ALL MINE!!!!!!!


    Don't worry about it. We are asking the same thing. I think you will like my next question. But first, Gregg, thanks for the information. Keep it coming. I also checked out your sonotubes. Two? Big, really big. Wow, I am going to go the infinite baffle route when summer is over. Summertime, Attics, and South Florida Heat would leave me in bad shape.
    Here is the question:

    When I look at my friends RPTVs, all 5+ years old or older, I am not so happy with the way they look. Mostly has to do with the pic being washed out and dim. (FYI, they have never been calibrated.) Has the technology changed much since then to fix that? Also, is there a "life" to RPTVs? CRTs can go on forever. Do RPTVs loose some of their brightness after a few years?
    Thanks
     
  14. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    I'd be willing to bet none of your friends has had the lenses on their rptvs cleaned, ever. Dust accumulates on them over time and gives a washed-out look.

    Also, a set that's run at factory default contrast and brightness settings will get dim much quicker than one that's had the contrast and brightness settings tamed down.

    My crt based set is 2 1/2 years old, is plenty bright during the day with the blinds half shut. It was starting to get a bit washed out looking a few weeks ago, blacks looked more grayish and it sorta lacked snap. I pulled the back off (8 or 10 phillips head screws) and cleaned just the lens surfaces on the crts. The picture afterwards actually looked better than when the set was brand new.

    I calibrated the set with AVIA the first day I had it, repeating every few months. Contrast is set at 40% or so and it's never shown any signs of burn in, nor any perceptible loss of brightness. It's never had a professional calibration, just what I can do with AVIA and a few minor tweaks in the service menu to eliminate red push and tame the Scan Velocity Modulation.

    After cleaning the lenses I got up the nerve to try a manual convergence on it, and didn't mess it up at all.

    With the cleaning and the tweaks it's aging very nicely, actually does look better now than when it was new.

    CRTs do have a limited lifespan. I've read different places that in torch mode as delivered the crts will go maybe 5 years before starting to dim, properly calibrated maybe 8 to 10.

    I'm sure by the time my set's 8 years old I'll be happier with the new non-crt stuff than I am now, and the prices on them will have come down to a more affordable level.
     
  15. DanielKellmii

    DanielKellmii Supporting Actor

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    Screamin' bloomin' reds for the first 6 months.......
    He makes fun of me when I say words like "calibrate."
    Oh well, that is why his set is nearly useless after >shock< 5 years.


    Thanks Steve. I think that after 8 years, I would be ready for something new as well. Anybody else out there have an old RPTV?
    Maybe I should start a new thread for that?
     
  16. EdHoch

    EdHoch Stunt Coordinator

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    Daniel, thanks for letting me tag along. Gregg, thanks for the Toshiba tip. I am leaning toward a 46" Toshiba. There is a 46H83, and a 46HX83. The latter appears to be a newer model, and part of a "Cinema Series" which sounds good (I am most looking forward to watching DVDs on this new big screen) but could just be branding hype...

    any advice on what the real differences are b/w these two, looks like I can get the one without the X for ~$1,200, while the one with the X is more like $1,700 - $2K.

    Also, any recommendations on where to buy? I hail from the Sacremento Area, Best Buy, Circuit City, SEARS, places like that are the closest name retailers...

    did the "search engine is my friend" maneuver and read some stuff about "RR" and some vertical white lines during hockey games plaguing the Toshibas. Are these still an issue with the 46HX83 models? Are there other, comparably priced units (Sony?) that I should consider?

    Haven't hit the showrooms yet, and particular DVD I should bring to test the TVs for this stuff?

    Thanks!

    Ed
     
  17. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    Ed,

    About the only store in CA that carry the Toshiba HX line is Good Guys. The HX and H are contemporaries, but the HX is Toshiba's high end line. I could be wrong but I think the H series lacks DVI inputs while the HX set has them.

    I would definitely also consider Sony's KP46WT510 "table model" or the KP51WS510 freestanding set. The 46" usually runs about $1500 or less and the 51" is usually just shy of $1800. Sony doesn't convert 480p to 540p like the Toshibas, and has very good consistency and pq out of the box, just turn "picture" (contrast on a Sony) down to 40% or so and do an AVIA calibration after it's been on for an hour or so and you're good to go. They also have DVI inputs. There was a flicker problem on Sonys a while back but it's been resolved for quite some time. Current models are about as issue-free as anything on the market right now.
     
  18. EdHoch

    EdHoch Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks Steve,

    You know I was looking at the Sony's but I am constrained by the built in wall alcove in my house (why they do that I'll never know.) Anyway, the dimensions there are Width 45.5" and Depth 24"

    I will check out Good Guys this weekend, it will probably come down to the toshiba 46" 46H83(X or non X) and possibly a Sony 46".

    I really need to understand what is included on the higher end Toshiba, is the X really worth an extra $500, or would that $500 be better used against some surround sound speakers (that will be the subject of my next thread, what are some good surround sound options in the $500 -$1,000 range...but that could be a few months away)

    thanks again
     
  19. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    My friend has a 60" 4x3 Mits and it looks showroom new. The PQ is stellar for a set that old. The set is 10 yrs old now.

    My father in law's set is still going at 17 yrs but the picture has dropped off alot. He has replaced it just this year.
     
  20. Jim Tressler

    Jim Tressler Stunt Coordinator

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    ed, as I understand it the x series supposedly uses better guns and a better anti glare screen.. now what "better" means I have no idea.. I am in the same boat as you.. I am set to pull the trigger on the 46h83 - as I can get it for around $1375 - the cheapest I could find the 46hx83 was $1750.

    good luck and keep us posted.. jim
     

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