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Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Shanthi, Sep 24, 2001.
Any feedback is appreicated.
I was in the same boat a few weeks ago, Marantz or Denon. I chose Denon as I would like DTS-ES discreet. I guess that's about the only reason I chose that one. The 7200 I believe can do all the matrixed 6.1 DD or DTS but not ES discreet. The 3802 can do everything except DD-EX which only THX receiver can do. (Some one will correct on this if I'm wrong) But people here say the 3802 lacks the THX stamp so they can't "advertise" a DD-EX but can do the DD 6.1 matrix which is basically the same as DD-EX. Again, someone pls jump in if I'm wrong.
One point for Marantz though, it is cheaper than the Denon, right?
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I am interested too - I'm saving for the 3802 or the 6200 (the 6200 would save a lot of money).
What are some opinions on each receiver with these speakers: I've got a Paradigm Monitor setup: M7s, CC350, and MMs.
The 3802 has one distinct advantage, and that is the 9 speaker hook-up for switching between HT and music listening modes. Front stage stays the same, while the rear section can contain both 4 dipole/bipoles AND 2 direct rears. I know the 4802 has this, and I am pretty sure the 3802 does also, but I don't think the 2802 and lower do.
I auditioned the 3802 and was very impressed with it's HT ability. Excellent placement and panning, plenty of power. Stereo music was very good.
I have the SR-6200 and I am more than pleased with it. Music just sounds a little better on it versus the 3802, but the HT is better on the 3802. Not that HT is bad on the 6200, but the Denon does a slightly better job, IMO.
I say both the 6200 and 7200 are spectacular choices, as is the 3802. For the price difference, I'd say these two Marantz' are very competetive with the 3802, though lacking DTS-ES discrete. I went with the 6200 because I don't need dual room/dual source, triggers, 192/48 pcm, or component vid switching.
The fact of the matter is, there is so little ES/EX material out, it isn't really that important, IMO. 5.1 sound is already plenty, and sounds great. I am not even using the 6th channel on my 6200 (mostly because I don't have a place for a rear center). I have hooked it up, and there is minimal benefit on 5.1 material, but a noticable improvement on 6.1 recordings. ES/EX material still sounds great in a 5.1 setup.
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The rear speaker switching capability of the 3802 is a nice option to have, but how many people can realistically afford (or have space for) six rear speakers? It can get very expensive if you have decent speakers and care about timbre matching. For me, cost ruled out the 3802. I would have been paying extra for an option I would probably never use, so the price/performance ratio of the Marantz won me over. I just purchased a sixth speaker for the rear centre channel of the SR-6200, but haven't hooked it up yet.
One question I have - if your rear L/R are monopoles, behind the listeners and pointing forward (as opposed to being on either side of the listeners and pointing in), will a rear centre placed between them give much benefit? Or is the rear centre designed more for "fill" when side-mounted speakers (especially dipoles) are used?
For the 6200/7200, the rear center functions as just that, a direct radiator. It works the same as the front CC, in that it comes into play during rear speaker pans, front to rear pans, and also has specific center information. For example, playing T2:UE, the THX intro, there was a lot of information in the rear center. Once I figure out how to mount my 6th speaker, I will likely switch to a 6.1 setup.
With the 3802, you do not have a rear center, as discrete says to have bipole/dipoles for the rear centers AND R/L surround for the HT configuration. Personally, I don't have the space or money for such a setup either, nor was I willing to pay nearly twice the price for the 3802 vs my 6200, but I think the functionality is a great idea.
I believe it is assumed you will have dipole/bipoles for the L/R surround in a 6.1 setup for HT, but this does not work as well for multi-channel music, and that's why I think Denon did a great job by having that functionality. I still prefer the sound of Marantz for music though, which is the main reason why I bought the 6200.
I am using monopoles for my rears, facing in, behind the listener. They produce a nice, diffuse surround effect. Multi-channel music seems to do fine with this setup as well, as the rears tend to be "ambiance" for the most part, except in the case of Seven Bridges Road on Eagles:Hell Freezes Over in DTS. In general, I listen to more of my music in 2ch than anything.
[Edited last by John Garcia on September 25, 2001 at 03:17 PM]
I pretty much concur with what John has said. I did a comparison of the 3802 and the SR7200 and I picked the 7200. One thing to note is that the 7200 is actually 110 watts into all six channels(not 105 as commonly advertised, no big deal just an interesting note). As far as sound quality goes, I thought HT was pretty equal(the discreeet vs. matrix rear center is basically a non-issue in my mind because they both sounded pretty close on the 2 dts-es fully 6.1 dvds i have - The Haunting and Gladiator). Musically - Marantz just sounds better. More warmth and detail IMHO. Since HT performance was pretty close, I figured I would get the one which sounded better on music which turned out to be the Marantz. I watch far more movies than listen to music, but when I do listen to msic, i want something that does it well. Just let your ears be the judge and ya can't go wrong. Good luck!!
To point out something, I don't have a ton of money to "dispose" of. I got the Denon 3802 as I got a great deal on a set of speakers, 2 fronts, 1 center, 4 dipole surrounds, and 2 subwoofers. The money saved here went a bit farther. And since I got 7.1 (or 7.2?..hehehe), why not use everything and go 7 channels?
I would've taken the 7200 but like I said, I'd like to hear DTS-ES discreet since I got the spkrs..so off to Denon I went.
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I'm a little confused by what you said. "With the 3802, you do not have a rear center...". Could you please explain what you mean. I have the 3802 and it has a rear center, your choice between 1 or 2 speakers for this and it does discrete and maxtrixed 6.1. Am I not understanding something?
I picked the Marantz 7200. I did like the Denon, I just thought for more money it should have sounded better than the Marantz. I really wanted DTS discrete, but found that the marantz sounded good enough for me with just one rear center and it's 6.1 mode.
Well, I was considering 3802 and Marantz SR8000, and I chose 3802. The reason being that, while Marantz was very good sounding, it seems not to get as loud as 3802, especially DTS playback. The salesperson cranked up the volume upto -5 to make it loud and when we tried higher, I started to hear some hissing, whereas -15 ~ -10 on 3802 sounds just loud enough for me and it could still go up higher. Yeah, many maybe won't watch movie that loud, but I thought a little headroom's good to keep. So, IMHO, Marantz's for music and Denon is movies, and I happened to watch DVDs much more than listen to music.
I bought a Denon 3802 and I am little confused as whether to buy two rear center or one rear center channels. My setup would be 50/50 for HT and music.
Shanti....I think one rear center would suffice but I know center channels sell for far more than rear dipole surrounds. So if you're going 2 spkrs for the back surround consider dipole surounds. Say for example the AT 350c sells for $316 while the 350SR sells for $270. Besides, that's what it says with the 3802 doesn't it?....dipole surrounds for the surround back channels? And those centers sure take up a lot more real estate....
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I choose the 6200 because I tend to care more about music sound than movie sound, and frankly, if it does music well, movies can't be all that bad, surely. I agree that the "discrete" issue is not too important to me. I don't think the rear center or rear surrounds are that big a deal, so a matrixed rear center is fine for me. Like others, I have no room for one now. If I did make room, however, I might point out that you have some flexibility there. I have mentioned this elsewhere, and its a perfectly applicable approach. I think if you took the rear center/surround pre-out and connected a Y-cable into a 2 channel amplifier, you would have yourself 2 rear speakers for the center, instead of one. I think it sounds different and might be prefered over a single rear center. Anyways, its an option. I would concern myself more with the sound of the receiver and the fact that it has DPL II.
My only disappointment, is that DPL II is not a 6.1 format. I guess thats what they are making for us suckers to buy next year, right?
Well, I just got a Marantz 7200 and after getting it home it immediately died. Just wouldn't turn on after the initial boot up. According to my salesperson at the store where I purchased it, this is a common problem with the unit. I replaced it with the new Integra 6.2 receiver which also has DPL II and is around the same price. It sounds great and works!
Interesting. I haven't heard of the SR 7200 doing that to anyone. I noticed the person having trouble with the remote, but thats about it.
Does the Integra 6.2 have 6.1? I don't think it does.
Thanks for clarifying. I'm new to the 6.1 and 7.1 setups but I don't think the rear center speakers are intended to be bipole or dipole. Side surrounds maybe...depending on personal taste but even my 3802's manual (and my new Crutchfield catalog) illustrate the rear centers as being direct radiating. That is what I ended up using. Same speakers as my side surrounds for a perfect matching surround field. I could be wrong though.