When are We going to see a Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea Blu-ray Release?! (2 Viewers)

[JeffT.]

Well new ideas generally take some time for others to accept.This discussion thread has had its fair share of heated disagreements. Check out the earlier (archived) message postings and you will see that the idea of a VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA tv series DVD release wasn't exactly greeted with enthusiastic optimism and respectful support. But it did happen nonetheless!I will never understand the (misplaced) loyalty to either LOST IN SPACE and LAND OF THE GIANTS but that is not my concern here. I am concentrating on (inevitable) blu-ray releases of both VOYAGE and THE TIME TUNNEL and leave it (totally) up to others to lobby for the other two.Technically I am (likely) older (albeit I really don't really appear any differently then I have always looked). My childhood memories were securely founded on definite "adult" premised 1960s SF tv series: THE TWILIGHT ZONE, THE OUTER LIMITS, VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA, THE AVENGERS, THE MAN FROM U.N.C.L.E., STAR TREK, THE TIME TUNNEL and THE INVADERS. Perhaps this is the crux of the problem-difficulty-conflict here. A substantially radical difference in orientation to the genre. My own sense of (longing) "nostalgia" stems from other sources of impression.To further emphasize this (beyond a shadow-of-a-doubt where I am coming from) I much prefer THE GREEN HORNET over BATMAN.LOST IN SPACE and GIANTS (dramatically) just don't pass muster with me. To my thinking they are quaintly feeble by comparison. More often than not they are (generally) much more suited for very young children.Even the (highly touted) first season of LOST IN SPACE was fundamentally still a kid's tv show. By comparion I personally found that (overall) VOYAGE (or THE TIME TUNNEL for that matter) were vastly much more interesting and entertaining for me.One thing about Irwin Allen must be clearly understood. This man had a definite affectation for juvenile-oriented entertainment. I am certain that Allen was much more confortable doing SPACE and GIANTS (which reflected his sensibilities) than he ever was with VOYAGE and THE TIME TUNNEL (both of which were left in the hands of other capable talents). Perhaps this is why I like these two show so much because they are so atypical of him. Unfortunately the man would inevitably corrupt the latter two as well (but VOYAGE and THE TIME TUNNEL still remained better shows than either SPACE or GIANTS).I am certain when blu-ray upgrades do happen (by whomever) VOYAGE and THE TIME TUNNEL fans will rally to them. Never say never! Realistically speaking I (honestly) don't believe that the opportunity will be missed.Jeff T.

 

[BobO'Link]

BobO'Link, the entire LAND OF THE GIANTS series is available to watch online at www.hulu.com assuming you have a fast enough connection to the Internet. If you choose to, you should watch the pilot episode at least. It's one of Irwin Allen's better hours of television and probably the best of that series.

Speaking of Hulu, it's interesting to note that all four of the '60s Irwin Allen series are available for free on the site, but only the first two seasons of VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA. You can watch all of TIME TUNNEL, all of LOST IN SPACE, all of LAND OF THE GIANTS, but only the first two seasons of VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA.

Harry

Thanks again! I've watched the first 3 episodes of Land of the Giants on HULU (those forced non-skippable commercials are a real pain!) and can safely say, based on those 3, that it will remain in last place on my list of IA show rankings. I plan to watch a few more just to be sure but it's just not quite up the the level as even those 2 color seasons of LIS and even that horrible last season of VTTBOTS. The musical score reminds me of the Time Tunnel score reworked a bit. The second episode, Ghost Town, reminded me of the better done Twilight Zone episode Stopover in a Quiet Town and the third, Framed, felt out of place with the crew attempting to keep a giant bum from being framed for murder. There also seem to be similarities to S2 & S3 of LIS with a bumbling/scared/conniving/etc. Dr. Smith type character, level headed captain, quick to act somewhat rashly assistant, etc. Based on IMDB episode descriptions it looks like it's a very mixed bag of themes with some closer to the premis and others seemingly reworked from other series to force the small size of the Earth men into the story.

Even so, if Fox would ever release a "reasonably" priced set ($40-$50) I'd consider a purchase of the series "just because" but there's no way I'll pay the highly inflated price for the "Collectors Set" version. It looks like if that's what I really want to do I'll need to go region free and purchase a R2 set as it's *just* the episodes in decent packaging.

 

[Harry-N]

Hulu probably has ordered them in aired-date order, which is actually a mess. There was a subtle development of character in LAND OF THE GIANTS that is totally thrown out the window in the ABC air dates. See if you can find a list of shows in production order date and watch the second or third episode produced. it's not a huge deal, but there is a progression of the Fitzhugh character going from scoundrel to more lovable problem-maker. Valerie starts out as a rather cold, unlikable woman who gradually adjusts to the situation and becomes more likable. Other characters also have a subtle adjustment as the series went on - production-order wise. I think that "Framed" episode was like the twelfth episode filmed, so it immediately got the little people involved in giant affairs.

The series is still not all that great, but the pilot and first few episodes were pretty decent. After that it got very tired and repetitive.In fact, the most fun I had watching it was spotting old TIME TUNNEL sets and equipment. There's an episode called "Brainwash" that features many of the TIME TUNNEL computer equipment, and one second season episode actually uses the old TIME TUNNEL set, minus the tunnel.

Harry

 

[ScottRE]

Jeff, I'm not sure why you call loyalty to LIS or Giants "misplaced" simply because you're not a fan of either show. People love them and many fans enjoy LIS more than Voyage or Time Tunnel. I'm not one of them, but I would never begrudge another fan's affection for a particular series.

If the Irwin Allen shows hit Blu-Ray, and an upscaling is the quickest way, then we'd see the other three much sooner than LIS which needs a total restoration. And don't carp about upscaling, it all depends on how much work was done on the prints. Kevin Burns stated back at the time it was done that the episodes were "remastered for HD." If he was accurate, than BD prints would look great. Over in the UK, Network released Space:1999 year one on DVD with "remastered for HD" prints. And when the BD version came out, it was met with universal praise - and the prints were the same source as the DVDs.

Now, as for ranking the IA series:

Voyage is the winner by a long shot - all 4 seasons. I love each one amd think the 4th season improved on the 3rd. In some ways, it was a lighter year with fewer episodes consisting of 51 minutes of running around.

The Time Tunnel: Great stuff that is made more great by only having a single year. The concept was already becoming crazy in the last third, the second season could have (and probably would have) upped that ante.

Lost in Space: first year: 90% great. Second year: ugh, about 5 or 6 watchable episodes. Third year - much better but still very uneven with a mid-season slump and a lame finish.

Land of the Giants: loses steam midway through the first season then gets really wacky in season 2 (which makes it more entertaining for me). Overall great cast, though.

 

[JeffT.]

Naturally there is vigourous innate rivalry between supporters of these shows. Why would you "begrudge" me (or anyone else) that? This is a competition. A contest (as a VOYAGE fan) that I intend to win!

Anything that I can say about LOST IN SPACE or LAND OF THE GIANTS can only do them harm. Clearly I am not the one to be the spokesperson for either. Frankly I am tired of these shows being afforded so much attention in this discussion thread. If forum members are so enamoured with them then kindly start your own discussion threads on SPACE and GIANTS. I promise that I will avoid both.

Obviously I consider both VOYAGE and THE TIME TUNNEL to be superior shows. That is why I started this discussion thread in the first place. Even if I were the only one who appreciated them (which I am not) it still wouldn't change my opinion on either SPACE or GIANTS. It seems to me that some parties just won't be satisfied until I positively acknowledge both these shows. I clearly stated my own opinion and it is not going to change.

The cast in GIANTS was by far the weakest, least impressive ever assembled in the Irwin Allen produced 1960s SF tv series and I think that is one of its glaring deficiencies.

To get back on topic here is an online fan video tribute to VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA:



There is a better one but I just can't find it right now!


Jeff T.

 

[Mark Collins]

Hi Harry, was that not great seeing all those sets on Giants and even on LIS 3rd season which took over TTs whole sound stage for a few episodes.What I got a kick out of was the Peyton Place sets which were right next door to the Voyage sets which David talked about in the Voyage book. Peyton sets were used in season 1 of Giants but when PP went off the air the next season Giants used the entire PP sets some of the indoor even. Since PP has only made it to 2 DVD sets I really enjoyed seeing all of them on DVD. TT sets were used a great deal and I think you Harry gave me the tip on the Voyage missle room being used in the Servoactuator episode forgive spelling. I thought the crazy episodes in season 2 of Giants made it even better when I was a kid and when I first had a chance to rewatch last summer I even enjoyed them.Hey Jeff I think it is ok to talk about Giants and LIS here. We are just speaking of them as Irwin Allen Voyage and TT fans. We all love these two shows and what Irwin gave us. Many of us Star Trek fans too. I just always felt poor Irwin got a great deal of lack of attention because of Star Trek being a big hit in syndication.LIS just seemed to be a comic sort of Star Trek for everyone. You can see the actors crack up even in season 1. I bought the whole set last year along with Giants after my good friend Gary pointed out I should complete my Irwin Allen Library and so I did and I am very glad that I did so. Nemo i did not like but City was great. LIS has a 40th year 2 cd set plus 2 other cds on the music and countless books. You cannot deny this show had legs. The 1970s right up to today.Voyage and TT are really now catching on. I saw that when I bought my huge Seaview model and in the shop a guy was taking pictures of the finished product stateing his best friend was a Voyage fan.I loved Voyage all seasons. TT went right off the air on ABC into syndication here in Chicago for a second season on WGN channel 9 Monday nights only in reruns opposite I Dream Of Jeannie. Voyage went right into syndication as well but on Monday-Friday and aired right before the 5:00 news in the fall of 1968. We received all 4 seasons too. I would be watching it while doing homework and waiting for supper.Hi Bob here is the info you wanted For Customer Service inquiries call 877-369-7867 M-F 8am-5pm PST or email [email protected] had purchased a copy from Borders and they were willing to replace it.Good luck Bob and hey as I always have said I will sign up for all TT and Voyage in blu-ray.

 

[Cynthia Boris]

Jeff, I'm not sure why you call loyalty to LIS or Giants "misplaced" simply because you're not a fan of either show. People love them and many fans enjoy LIS more than Voyage or Time Tunnel. I'm not one of them, but I would never begrudge another fan's affection for a particular series.

If the Irwin Allen shows hit Blu-Ray, and an upscaling is the quickest way, then we'd see the other three much sooner than LIS which needs a total restoration. And don't carp about upscaling, it all depends on how much work was done on the prints. Kevin Burns stated back at the time it was done that the episodes were "remastered for HD." If he was accurate, than BD prints would look great. Over in the UK, Network released Space:1999 year one on DVD with "remastered for HD" prints. And when the BD version came out, it was met with universal praise - and the prints were the same source as the DVDs.

Now, as for ranking the IA series:

Voyage is the winner by a long shot - all 4 seasons. I love each one amd think the 4th season improved on the 3rd. In some ways, it was a lighter year with fewer episodes consisting of 51 minutes of running around.

The Time Tunnel: Great stuff that is made more great by only having a single year. The concept was already becoming crazy in the last third, the second season could have (and probably would have) upped that ante.

Lost in Space: first year: 90% great. Second year: ugh, about 5 or 6 watchable episodes. Third year - much better but still very uneven with a mid-season slump and a lame finish.

Land of the Giants: loses steam midway through the first season then gets really wacky in season 2 (which makes it more entertaining for me). Overall great cast, though.

All of Irwin's shows get wacky in the final seasons. It's like he plays it straight to get the press behind him then does whatever he wants once the show is a hit!

Believe me, I say this with all love and affection because I'm one of Irwin's biggest fans. I even have my own fansite for his shows and movies.

 

[Mark Collins]

I am glad we now know the truth! Thanks TT bluray!!!


Just had this forarded to me...

A Revelation Films spokesman has clarified-confided-related that the identical SD (Standard Definition) video transfers used for the previous Region 2 standard DVD edition have been employed again. The chief difference this time around is that the cliffhanger endings have been restored to their corresponding episodes once more.This "blu-ray edition" can only be recommended for anyone who hasn't as yet purchased the earlier Region 2 standard DVD edition. A bonafide HD (High Definition) blu-ray release is yet to see the light-of-day and if (or when) it happens it will most certainly be made available in the much more sizeable (and lucratively substantial) North American home video market first.Still it is gratifying that THE TIME TUNNEL (ABC 1966-67) would be (in a way) the first of the classic Irwin Allen (June 12th, 1916 - November 02nd, 1991) 1960s SF tv series to be made available in the higher grade medium. Let us hope that this is a (positive) harbinger of great things to come.

I want to state once more here and now and not again that Voyage and The TIme Tunnel are my two favorite Irwin Allen shows but I own the entire Irwin Library. I just received from Amazon all of season 1 and the last half of season 2. So now I have double dipped and own 2 copies of Voyage and TT. I really look forward as i said in the past to viewing season 1 from start to finish. I just hope all is well with the discs. TT is worth a double dip. I watched my new ones this season and I could see where they were much sharper. I must be more carefull with my new discs in both series. I tend to scratch a few of them over time. I think that is where TT received the most abuse and why I noticed such a difference from the first sets i ever bought of the show.

Hey Cynthia a fan site? How cool!! Gary you know how crazy I am. I contacted the guy who sell the lighted up windows 8 Seaview and asked about a windows 4. I was already going to see if i could sell mine but Peter who makes them said sorry no more windows 4 are going to be made.

Jeff W thank you SIr once more for all the info!!!

 

[Jeff Willis]

All of Irwin's shows get wacky in the final seasons. It's like he plays it straight to get the press behind him then does whatever he wants once the show is a hit!

Believe me, I say this with all love and affection because I'm one of Irwin's biggest fans. I even have my own fansite for his shows and movies.

I've noticed that with I.A. shows too. It's one reason that I haven't collected some of the I.A. later-season shows but it's great that the IA's have all been released for the fans.

Jeff W thank you SIr once more for all the info!!!

 

[ScottRE]

Naturally there is vigourous innate rivalry between supporters of these shows. Why would you "begrudge" me (or anyone else) that? This is a competition. A contest (as a VOYAGE fan) that I intend to win!

To get back on topic here is an online fan video tribute to VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA:

There is a better one but I just can't find it right now!
Jeff T.

Really? "Naturally" a vigorous rivalry? Between whom? Most people I know like the Irwin Allen shows in a particular order and they're fine. I don't begrudge you anything in regards to your own personal preference, but what is the point in a rivalry? What are you winning? I see no competition, all of these shows are long cancelled, on home video, I don't get it. Is it the "race to Blu-Ray?" Honestly, if one of them gets released, they probably all will, does it matter in the long run what order they come out in? I remember initial frustration when The Time Tunnel got a complete release, but today, it doesn't matter. Live your life as you please, and you are of course entitled to your opinions, but really I see no point in stressing.

They're all light, escapist entertainment. They're fun. Why spoil it?

I also very much disagree with your assessment on the Giants cast. They are, IMO, the stronges unit Irwin put together. There were superior individual actors in the other shows, but Giants had the strongest, most equallly talented cast. They saved some of the lesser episodes for me.

Oh, I created that video you linked, it's on my YouTube Channel along with some others if people are interested.

http://www.youtube.com/user/ssosmcin

Scott

 

[JeffT.]

When one deals with the "Devil" one pays for it.

When I researched that VOYAGE-themed video download I well knew who was responsible (your old moniker: ssosmcin) but the particular one I had in mind wasn't readily available.

Now I understand the "pointless" sparring of this specific discussion!

You're not motivated by any sense of "fairness" for anyone but your own lingering dislike of me. Regardless of what I say you will naturally be in disagreement.

I remember you well enough to know that VOYAGE is your personal favourite of the Irwin Allen litter. And beyond that STAR TREK even more so.

The pointlessness is further affirmed by the fact that you are a (much) bigger fan of VOYAGE than I am.

At this juncture I have no desire to converse with you further. I (contentedly) prefer to have nothing more to do with you.

I (mistakenly) believed that this was a big world we live in...but obviously not big enough.

Jeff T.

 

[ScottRE]

Wow. Seriously? Yeah, Jeff, I know we've had "discussions" before, but I really only wanted to understand why you felt the need for some sort of rivalry, no matter which show I prefer. I wasn't going out of my way to be antagonistic and I have no "dislike" for you personally (I was actually happy you posted my video - even if you wanted to find another one). I don't know you outside of what you post. And since you don't know me, then you have no idea what my motivations are beyond what I have posted here.

Food for thought: when you post something on a discussion board, people will discuss. If someone doesn't understand why you feel a certain way, you will be asked. It is a big world we live in and not everyone sees things the same way (and I don't "naturally disagree" with you: for example I also prefer Green Hornet over Batman). You will find agreement and disagreement, but I don't see anything in my posts that could possibly be interpreted as negative toward you personally. Looking them over now, I confirm I was bending over backward to be polite considering our past encounters, because I don't believe in internet grudges and hoped we could have rational discussions. Yet you jumped to defensive, inaccurate, and personal conclusions with every response. You're apparently the one with the "lingering dislike."

Serves me right for trying, I guess. I won't make that mistake with you again.

Enjoy your rivalry.


EDIT: Sorry everyone to waste your time with this.

 

[jimmyjet]

of my recall, i think time tunnel was by far the most sophisticated of the shows. i am almost positive i would like that today.

i was surprised to see that it only lasted a year. i have good memories of that show.

i watched and liked the others, as well. but today, as an adult, i suspect that lost in space would be the one i like the least.

but eventually, i will still get them all. for some reason, giants is ridiculously expensive ?

 

[JeffT.]

"I wasn't going out of my way to be antagonistic and I have no 'dislike' for you personally. I don't know you outside of what you post. And since you don't know me, then you have no idea what my motivations are beyond what I have posted here. I confirm I was bending over backward to be polite considering our past encounters, because I don't believe in internet grudges and hoped we could have rational discussions."--Scott McIntyre.

"There was an OT discussion about STAR TREK and I stated what a big fan I was. Someone said that the TT pilot stacks up against the best of TREK. I didn't agree and said something to the effect that STAR TREK's best was better than most any other televised SF, including TIME TUNNEL."--Scott McIntyre.

What McIntyre actually said was that he didn't consider any of THE TIME TUNNEL episodes (including the pilot) to be as good as any of the STAR TREK episodes. It makes the purpose of a TIME TUNNEL-themed discussion forum somewhat meaningless. The OT was started solely by himself completely out-of-the-blue. Even his friends were shocked by it.

"Well Jeff pretty much roasted me for saying I like TREK more than (THE) TIME TUNNEL and questioned why someone who feels that way would want to post on TIME TUNNEL group."--Scott McIntyre.

No one was "roasted" but a reasonable question under the circumstances and an identical trait exhibited in this discussion thread...always running counter to the intended purpose. I honestly don't think that this guy understood that isn't there already more-than-enough discussion on STAR TREK that we were (reasonably) trying to come up with something totally different for a change? What really ruffled his feathers were a number of quotes that I provided discussing STAR TREK in comparison to other SF tv series of the period to give him some perspective which he didn't appreciate:

"I think STAR TREK was cleverly promoted in many ways, but, in terms of international appreciation, I think LAND OF THE GIANTS has more going for it. For one thing, our show was much more visual. STAR TREK tended to be corny. It was filmed on static sets and the FX weren't particularly good. And the 'acting' talk about wooden. I look back at LAND OF THE GIANTS today and I'm quite pleased with the acting. It was certainly a challenge, even Lawrence Oliver would have had a hard time playing to a blue screen every single day. But it definitely wasn't tongue-in-cheek."--Gary Conway.

McIntyre (erroneously) attributed these sentiments to me. These are not my words but actor Gary Conway star of the LAND OF THE GIANTS tv series. Unfortunately I don't have his reaction to accurately quote but boy did he ever slam LAND OF THE GIANTS something to the effect that it was a "ridiculous show" with "little people always climbing up-and-down on ropes" or some such. My sentiments exactly!

But clearly when he feels that his interests are violated he doesn't take too kindly to it. It never occurs to him that others would feel the same way about their own.

"What a wacko. An inmate controls that particular asylum."--Scott McIntyre.

My sentiments exactly about you!

Perhaps what bothers me most is this lackadaisical indifferent attitude toward television blithely dismissing it as merely "light entertainment." You try going to other discussion threads with this attitude and see just how far you get. In the specific case of VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA and THE TIME TUNNEL at their best were much more than that. To see them weekly on television in primetime was a bonafide event! If you really care about something than you are dedicated not passive. I couldn't be involved in anything that I didn't have genuine respect and enthusiasm for but that is only sound reasoning. If you really don't believe in something and don't find it rewarding then why bother with it? Naturally fans are impassioned (or should be) about their interests.

To him it really doesn't matter which Irwin Allen SF tv series first makes it to blu-ray. To me it most definately did. Of the group there are only two real choices on this. But now I (honesty) don't really care. This discussion thread has been more of a nuisance than a pleasure and I have completely lost interest in it.

In the case of McIntyre it is a matter of familiarity breeds contempt. I really can't stomach this guy at all. His pseudo-posturing is just a facade. I think that the problem here that there is nothing really genuine about the man and his taste in entertainment is so blandly ordinary and typical. In a way it is not really his fault. He is a "younger" generation who has a completely different perspective.

When I personally encounter a so-called "younger" person (admittedly not too often) and I hear them express just how much they love THE OUTER LIMITS, THE TWILIGHT ZONE or THE INVADERS (My top three favourites incidentally) then I am (profoundly) impressed with them.

You should go to these LOST IN SPACE-themed online discussion forums and see for yourself how much absurd drivel is brought up. What exactly is the point in discussing something like "The Great Vegetable Rebellion? Who in their right mind really wants to? You can have that slop!

I am not going to waste further time and energy attempting to rationalize the irrational. There is definitely no common demoninator here. If anything I (personally) have been turned off the Irwin Allen SF tv series and especially its fan following. However one learns from (bitter) experience.

I look at the contents of this particular message posting and I ask myself why am I discussing something I really don't want to? It is because of guys like McIntyre who have to be taken-by-the-hand and given a detailed explanation about absolutely everything imaginable on Earth.

I think this particular discussion thread has (long) since served its purpose and should be allowed a respectful rest at last.

If others wish to continue then start your own. See what it is like to assume the responsiblity of managing it. I've had enough! I've had more than enough.

Good Riddance!

Jeff T.

 

[Gary OS]

Jeff, I sincerely hope you are not suggesting that this thread be locked or abandoned simply because you, as the thread starter, don't want to discuss Voyage or the other Allen series here any more. I'd strongly object to that type of thinking. This is one of the largest threads on the TV board and I for one have enjoyed it immensely and see no reason it should end simply because you are ready to walk away from it.


Gary "I'm not going to stop visiting and discussing VTTBOTS and the other Allen shows in this thread unless it's locked by a mod" O.

 

[Jeff Willis]

I don't usually spend too much time analyzing or rating shows. It it's a good show to me, I go with it.

I'm still early into Voyage viewing, S2 V1. Thanks to my good friend Gary, I added S1-2 to my collection a while back.


"Chief of the 'watch', on the 'one-MC', dive! Make your depth one-five-o feet, 5-degree down-bubble!"

 

[Gary OS]

We can always count of Jeff Willis to provide us with great pics to go along with his great posts! Thanks, buddy. Glad you are enjoying this great Irwin Allen show!


Gary "Dive! Dive!" O.

 

[Jeff Willis]

The chilling "Cold War" era..... VTTBOTS S1 Promo


Jeff "Blow All Tanks! Surface! Surface!" W.

 

[Mark Collins]

I watched the pilot and the unaired pilot on season 4 special features. I enjoyed both and had forgot that Mrs Shelia Allen had supplied them with one and two others for the other print.

Jeff, I sincerely hope you are not suggesting that this thread be locked or abandoned simply because you, as the thread starter, don't want to discuss Voyage or the other Allen series here any more. I'd strongly object to that type of thinking. This is one of the largest threads on the TV board and I for one have enjoyed it immensely and see no reason it should end simply because you are ready to walk away from it.


Gary "I'm not going to stop visiting and discussing VTTBOTS and the other Allen shows in this thread unless it's locked by a mod" O.

You are so right Gary and thank you for stateing it. I must confess i was thinking of walking away until I read your post. Many of us have enjoyed this thread. We have the right to post or speak about any of the Irwin Allen Shows. I have said before I have found value in all 4 series.

 

[ScottRE]

Ah Jeff Talbot, thank you for dredging up all those apparently saved posts I made a few years ago. I'm flattered you seem to have a file on me. I had forgotten much of it because I don't hold onto negativity and honestly, you're not worth the commitment of so many memory cells. Oh, but please, if you're going to quote me, don't add parentheses to my posts. Only Jeff Talbot, Thinnes67, makes those ridiculous editorial choices. Commas were created to do that job. It was, however, clever of you to quote me without quoting what prompted my responses in the first place. I'm not one to fly off the handle and call someone a wacko unless there's plenty of evidence. And you provide that evidence in abundence every time you post one of your essays on any subject.

For your information, for the most part, I've encountered reasonable people on the internet who do indeed allow for constructive criticism of these shows. Many people love the series and are well aware of their flaws. Because for much of the time, they ARE weird, or silly or whatever. But they're fun, so we enjoy the goofs as well as the successes. Voyage, Time Tunnel, The Invaders, etc. are all light entertainment and your own disgusted intolerance for shows you personally don't like, and the belittlement of their fans, just points up how off you are. You have no room for anything other than agreement with your insane ravings. You can't discuss, you can only present and have people agree. You have no regard for anyone's opinion but your own and you take every disagreement as a personal attack. However, YOU can be as opinionated and nasty toward things you don't like all you want.

Regardless of what I said about you in the past, regardless of how we clashed, all that matters is what's happened here in this thread. The proof is on this page, I was polite and simply discussing, and in spite of our past, I was STILL happy to try and have a discussion. I did NOTHING to cause you to pop - except disagree. Politely. Oh and "expose my identity" which obviously sent you into a massive coronary. Again, I'm flattered, but I ask anyone to go back a few posts and find where I was off base, nasty, mean, or anything other than reasonable. I'll wait...

As for what you quoted from me, I stand by every claim about your mental instability and you just backed it up by putting them all in an insane rant (and casuing ME to rant - your madness is catching). I don't even remember the Gary Conway info as I have a life and moved WAY on. You are showing that you're the very embodiment of a "Mom's Basement Dweller," totally focused on TV shows of the past to the point of irrational obsession (rivalry? seriously?) and you will never, ever see how out of touch you are with real people or how to have simple human contact. I don't dislike you, Jeff Talbot. I feel bad for you. Actually, I do dislike you now and so should everyone else here because you caused us to waste everyone's time with this crap. And, by the way, you still know nothing about me, so don't presume to conclude a thing about me. You, however, are an open book - and a sad one at that. And as you can see, people here are more than willing to comment about any series in any way they choose. So, goodbye, if you don't want to follow the thread.

And, BTW, I am FAR from the only person who has had trouble with you and your paranoid insanity. This wasn't the worst of it, but it shows how you've harassed others.

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/THETIMETUNNEL/message/6759

These are TV shows, for crying out loud. It's not a religion. As always, thanks for sucking some of the fun out of the hobby.

Once again, everyone, I apologize for this. I'm done with this insane crybaby.