What? no posts about MLB contraction???

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Aaron Schmitt, Nov 7, 2001.

  1. Aaron Schmitt

    Aaron Schmitt Stunt Coordinator

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    Where are our outraged Minnesota Twins or Montreal Expo fans? I can't be the only one who thinks that it would suck to lose the Twins, and even the Expos. So, do you agree with Jim Caple from ESPN.com that this is just another owner trick to get new stadiums, etc? Is it just to get the players to agree to a deal more favorable to the owners? Or is this the real deal?
    Aaron
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  2. PatrickM

    PatrickM Screenwriter

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    I think it would suck to lose the Twins since its basically their a$$hole owner, Carl Pohlad, whose orchestrating this. As for the Expos, there aren't any Expos fans since they started being a farm system for all the other MLB teams out there. If they had money and could have kept their players the Yankees wouldn't have won as many WS rings. But, the economics of it dictated that they had to unload their stars for prospects when their contracts were up.
    Losing the Expos would be good but the Twins are another story.
    Patrick
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  3. Ross Williams

    Ross Williams Supporting Actor

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    I can understand the Expos. What did they average, 5,000 fans per game? That's absolutely pathetic. I can't understand the Twins though, they had an above .500 year, and from what I've seen and heard they have a pretty well established fan base. I would hate to see the Twins go. I think the 2nd team should be one of the Florida teams.
    But it's absolutely ridiculous that its even come down to this. This shouldn't even be a topic. I can't believe that baseball is so mismanaged that they actually have to drop two teams from the league. What they need is some sort of revenue-sharing structure like the NFL. And while they're at it, how 'bout a salary cap.
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    [Edited last by Ross Williams on November 07, 2001 at 11:23 AM]
     
  4. Bruce N

    Bruce N Second Unit

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    Please bring one of these teams to Northern Virginia/D.C. before just shutting them down!
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  5. CharlesD

    CharlesD Screenwriter

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    Its amazing to me that MLB could find such a new and original way to further alinate their fans. I must admit that I was never much of a baseball fan, so I am sure I am not typical, but I haven't been to a game since the strike 5 or so years ago. I have heard that although atendance has been going up, it s still below what it was pre-strike.
    Do they really think that this move will get more people interested in MLB? Why don't they move toward a salary cap/ revenue sharing deal similar to the NFL? Are they really so greedy that they would "contract" the league rather than share revenue between the teams?
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  6. Kevin Coleman

    Kevin Coleman Second Unit

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    Its called the "George Steinbrenner effect" Until baseball gets revenue sharing and a salary cap like football you will be able to eliminate from the world series running about two thirds of the teams every year before the season even begins.
    I know I probably didn't spell the Yankees owners name correctly but I really don't care.
    Kevin C.
     
  7. Mark Schermerhorn

    Mark Schermerhorn Second Unit

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    A couple of things (warning: naughty language):
    Carl Pohlad really is a prick although I didn't have to tell you that to know it's true. No one in this city has really liked him, other than when we won the series but that's just how it works in the good times. I came to the realization some years ago that only people like him can get as rich as he is. You have to have a complete lack of ethics and moral framework to become that wealthy.
    The twins were probably chosen because we only have a 1 year lease left at the metrodome for $500k. Most teams have leases that run 10 - 20 years, from what I've seen, and at much higher prices per year. I think thats the main reason we were chosen (or will be since it isn't official) over other low income teams like the marlins or devil rays.
    Bud Selig is also a prick of the first degree. Him and Pohlad make my blood boil. You've probably heard of the conflict of interest Selig has with the brewers. I'm a moderate twins fan, I went to 6 games this year. I was a huge fan as a yungin from about '86 up until the strike in 94. Frankly they can fold up the twins before those fucking bastards get a cent out of my pocket for their profit. Sorry about the strong language but that's how I feel, and how these pricks deserve to be treated.
    The rest of the city and the state basically feels the same way. We have three other pro teams here. And the twin cities has a lot to offer for entertainment. We have many museums, theaters, parks, and lakes. Downtown is always bumpin on the weekend, losing the twins will have a sum total of zero effect on that, other than a few bars by the metrodome. In other words, we have a life here, with or without the twins.
    We have other things to do in this city, the owners know we know this, and so does MLB. So they're scared. The era of public financing for these rich fuckers should start coming to an end after the twins die and the city goes on with business as usual.
    Personally with as screwed up and dysfunctional as baseball has become, I wouldn't mind if the whole league folded, and a new one started from the ashes. The problems are severe, and neither the owners nor the players union is willing to work together on them. Instead we end up with the horrible, petty bickering we're seeing today, starting with this threat of contraction.
     
  8. MickeS

    MickeS Producer

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    I don't know anything about how major league baseball works. Could someone explain how teams are selected for the NL and the AL?
    I mean, how it should work is this: the top leagues have, say, 12 teams each. Below that, there should be divisions. The two bottom teams in each top league, or division, should play qualifying games every year against the two top teams from the division below it. This allows teams to advance to the division above it, and also kicks out teams that aren't good enough anymore.
    Is this similar to how it works (since it works like this in many other sports)?
    /Mike
     
  9. CharlesD

    CharlesD Screenwriter

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    Mike
    It doesn't work like that, there is no mechanism for a minor league team to become a NL or AL team. A team is in the AL or NL because the baseball commissioner/owners say so, and it stays there until they decide otherwise.
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  10. Jeff_A

    Jeff_A Screenwriter

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    I will ditto most of Mark's comments. However, I do feel that the loss of the Twins will impact downtown business.
    I believe the Twins drew close to 1.8 million fans this past season. Many of those who attend these games do come from outside the metro area. When we travel into the city for a game we generally frequent restaurants and bars in the downtown area. This will have some effect.
    This is really a hard pill for Minnesotan's to swallow right now. And perhaps it lends some perspective to why so many of us hate what the George Steinbrenner's of the world stand for. We are both sad and angry. [​IMG] [​IMG]
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  11. Mark Schermerhorn

    Mark Schermerhorn Second Unit

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    Jeff, I probably underrated the financial impact, but my point would be that it isn't going to break downtown financially. It's a very healthy community.
     
  12. MickeS

    MickeS Producer

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    Thanks, Charles.
    I think it would become much more interesting if there was potentialy a threat to be kicked out of the league every year (other than monetary). Also, if minor leagues could advance to the majors just by virtue of their skills, it would be a lot more interesting too.
    But I guess the system would have to be redone from the ground up. Too much money involved to do that.
    /Mike
     
  13. Ashley Seymour

    Ashley Seymour Supporting Actor

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    The Twins are one of the few teams I get to see as I go visit my in-laws in Minnesota each year. As a kid, I used to see them in Orlando in spring training. As a Dodger fan I went to see Sandy Kofax pitch and my brother and father to see the Yankees. Unfortunately, unless you are from Minnesota, watching the Twins is like watching the Washington Generals.
    It is still unacceptable to have the Twins fold. Whatever happened to moving the franchise. The Expos are moribund, but 1.8 million fans to see the Twins is not bad. That is probably a million more than saw them play 35 years ago. The Twins are one of the few teams that every 15 years or so can get their act together and compete for a penant and actually get in the World Series. The Cubs can't say that and even the Bosox don't make the series more than the Twins.
    Disband the Twins and the Expos? And this comes from the same rocket scientists that put teams in Miami and Tampa Bay instead of Orlando. The owners and Commissioners also draged their feet for 50+ years before allowing a team in Denver and couldn't believe how well they drew.
    Baseball is loath to consider anything novel because it would jepordize the sweetheart deal it has always enjoyed with the government. Basemball is not a "business" it is a sport. How would Tom Hayden put it? "It's not personal Sonny, it's sport."
     
  14. Joseph S

    Joseph S Cinematographer

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    It should be the Brewers, Devil Rays, and Selig gone.
    The Brewers are the only team that can get a free new $1/2 billion stadium and not even fill it for 1/4 of the games. Take out the opening series, and the series against the Chicago teams, and they sold out a grand total of ...
    Five Games. A brand new stadium and they only sell out five games that don't include the Cubs or White Sox after opening weekend!!!!!! That's a telling story to me. Tor drew over 5 million fans for years. Cle, Balt, and others sold out every single game several years following their new stadium openings. The Brewers relied on Chicago fans to sell out their park and could only do it 20 times all year with 12 games against the White Sox and Cubs.
    Yet, they're raising the ticket prices for next season and releasing players at the same time. Same 'ole Selig!!!!!I can't wait to see how he arranges the draft to get Vladimir Guerrero only to sell him to another team.
    Tampa Bay on the other hand, at least tried to win by signing free agents like McGriff, Vaughn, and Castilla. They have fans though, the team blows, and there is already a team in FLA.
    [Edited last by Joseph S on November 07, 2001 at 03:35 PM]
     
  15. BryanZ

    BryanZ Screenwriter

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    Rumor has it the Expos and Marlins will be gone. The Twins with their meager salaries were fairly competitive. The Rays are 20th in the league for revenue. The owner of the Expos will probably buy the Rays and then integrate those players into the Rays system.
     
  16. Wes Ray

    Wes Ray Supporting Actor

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    *crossing fingers*
    Here's hoping the Yankees and the Braves will somehow be chosen for elimination.
     
  17. Anthony Hom

    Anthony Hom Supporting Actor

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    There is also rumor that Oakland A's are also on the list to get the boot. MLB want to get rid of the small market teams, and would pick out a few from each league. It's a closed club, MLB. They do whatever they want, even if it sounds unfair. The fans are what drives this business, they need to speak out if they are about these teams closing down.
     
  18. John Tillman

    John Tillman Supporting Actor

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    It'll be interesting to watch them operate. Here in the NYC area the talk shows favor contraction on the basis of 'lack of adequate talent'.
    When it comes to players like Guerrero, you know that all teams (excpt the one that gets him) will be unhappy and claiming foul play, bad judgement, fixed process etc.
    So how should this process happen? What would be fair?
     
  19. Bill Slack

    Bill Slack Supporting Actor

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    If it gets Carl Everett and Dan Duquette out of town, they can close down the Sox.
    While contraction is a bit sad, it's not as sad as the absurd expansion of the best few decades. They've put teams into situations setup to fail.
    How Tampa Bay got a team with that absurd stadium is beyond me. Something needs to be done about the Expos...
    Eliminating the Twins is messed up. They've won, what? Three chaimponships in the last 20 years? How many teams have done that? And not too long ago they had attendence over three million. I think they should do something about old Carl, not the Twins.
    Tamba Bay... Montreal... Florida... these teams are largely beyond hope given their situations and owners. Seeing two of the three go wouldn't be such a terrible thing... And sure, move the other to DC/Northern Virginia.
    Oakland is in a tough spot, sure, they've had a great few years, but they still don't have very good attendance, and have the competition from SF.
    I think Tampa Bay can support a team, but not with that wretched ball park, and I don't see them moving for at least 10-20 years.
     
  20. Jeff_A

    Jeff_A Screenwriter

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