What makes Fox beholden to Blu-Ray? (1 Viewer)

[MarekM]

you forgot small thing ............ BR drives are RECORDERS !! HD-DVD add-on is player only !

Marek

 

[Marko Berg]

I think Gordon was referring to existing Blu-ray players that are stand-alone playback machines. And how is the Microsoft HD DVD add-on different from the PS3 which most certainly will not be equipped with a Blu-ray recorder?

 

[MarekM]

blu-ray recorders are around $750, and price of PS3 is not $750, also none of existing BR players are not $750, that's why I talked about writers (recorders).

and he mentioned it as media center for thier PC's that's why I am sure he talked about blu-ray drivers for PC not standalones...., but of course I could be wrong

Marek

 

[ppltd]

I am not sure it will have anything to do with who sells more, The only issue will be are there enough HD-DVD owners that the studios will see a loss in revenue f they don't support it. I think by Christmas, we might be there in numbers.

Thomas Eisenmann

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

And we all know how well that worked out for Fox and Circuit City. (I forget, was it Chapter 7 or Chapter 11 that CC filed?) And that was in a market where one side of the format war was selling what amounts to a combo player, while the other side could only play one format.

So let's review:

1. A group of CE companies and studios breaks away from the industry standards committee developing the next generation home video system and...

2. Comes up with format that offers better copy protection and more control to studios, but less convenience to consumers. Creates a format war where none had existed and none needed to exist. Then it...

3. Goes to market with more expensive machines and discs that are more expensive to own.

4. Uses a business model that depends on solving a problem that consumers have not heretofore seen as that much of a problem and to which other solutions can be developed. (The "have to return rentals" problem in the DIVX model, the "I can't play both HD movies and my cool games on the same HDTV problem" in the case of BD. BTW, how much of the installed base of HDTVs consists of slow-responding LCD panels and other devices that are fine for TV and movies, but suck for games?)

Because according to all the stories I've read in business publications (as opposed to consumer electronics and gaming mags) Sony is heavily betting on the PS3 not only to get BD moving, but basically to sustain the company as they dig out from bad decisions and declining market share and revenues in virtually every other area they do business in. If PS3 isn't a huge hit, Sony itself might not survive, at least not in the form we know it. This format war could end up being settled by Xbox and Nintendo, not HD and BD.

* * * * * * * * *

I don't care who wins this thing. I don't own either format, I won't until this nonsense is over. I blame the entire industry for not getting its collective sh*t together before this started as they (mostly) did with DVD. I mostly find the extremely partisan posts on the subject amusing - like the Mac vs. PC wars. (Recently revived by those idiotic Mac commercials where Apple compares its product to the PC - the PC of 1990.)

But I think that in the more sober posts, the HD contingent is being more realistic about both the pluses and minuses of their chosen format, and the BD supporters are being a little too complacent about both the format - which is barely in the marketplace - and the effect that the PS3 is going to have. I think Sony is making the same mistake - which it has historically, assuming that its "superior" technology (it isn't always), marketing expertise and reputation (which allows it to charge a price premium) would overcome the competition. And that introducing a format it effectively controls would insulate it from some competition. Well, this strategy flopped with Beta, it flopped with MD, the "control" theory didn't work out real well when it bought Columbia. Sony is trying to do the same thing it did with Beta using an approach that resembles DIVX. If I were rooting for this format, this would make me very, very nervous.

The market will, as always, determine the outcome. But I have a feeling that Sony is misreading the market.

Regards,

Joe

 

[Robert Crawford]

IMO, the numbers of HD DVD owners by the end of December will not be enough to change Fox or Disney's minds.




Crawdaddy

 

[Travis Hedger]

If that were to happen are you saying it is good business practice to not shore up that other possible 25% of revenue and miss out on millions of dollars in additional profit?

December may be too early, but as I said. Give it time.

 

[Robert Crawford]

What I'm saying is that Fox and Disney are committed to making the Blu-ray format the winning format, even if it means sacrificing short term revenue streams by not supporting HD DVD. This is nothing more than my personal opinion so in the end, I might be completely out in left field with my thoughts.




Crawdaddy

 

[MarekM]

As Robert mentioned, they are after LONG TERM form of bussines model here..
and of course if in long term BR did not win, they will move for sure to hd-dvd camp......

This December is to close to have enough STATISTIC DATA for any good BUSSINES MODEL for near or far future.........

I am sure they are reworking that model each month, but maybe after 6-12 moths there will be enough data to make more correct prediction of possible winner or draw in this format war.....

It's same with Toshiba (lowering prices for their player) and probably same with Sony's PS3. Those companies are willing to lose MILLIONS of $$$$ at the begining, because they now if they win, they will earn many many more....

Marek

 

[Cees Alons]

They're not "losing" anything. Everything that's manufactered cost a lot of investment before you even bring it to the market (and sometimes it doesn't even reach the market ever).
Then, the first items sold never earn that money back of course. But what you sell those units for you don't call "at a loss". It's the price based on your market prospects, predictions, expectations.
Calling it "at a loss" is done by the competition.


Cees

 

[MarekM]

Agreed Cees, I used wrong NAME, I should name it INVESTMENTS sorry for that........

 

[Robert Crawford]

I've read some comments from Disney's Chapek, who is their president of home entertainment and his comments aren't any different than what Fox has stated about Blu-ray versus HD DVD which leads me to believe that they're in bed with Blu-ray until they become convinced that it's not the viable option for HD product.




Crawdaddy

 

[ppltd]

Actually, it is called a loss by the financial community. If it shows up on the loss side of the ledger, that what it is. This is no different from loss leaders run by stores to bring customers in hoping that they will buy more.

There is nothing wrong with this approach, as it has a fairly good track record.

Thomas Eisenmann

 

[Edwin-S]

How so? Any copy protection system should be totally transparent if a person has no intention to copy discs or view illegal copies of movies. I do not have a problem with copy protection, since the studios have the right to protect their property from theft. After all, that is why we all have door locks on our houses. I cannot fault FOX or DISNEY for supporting a system that has improved "locks" for protecting content when I use deadbolts to protect my property from theft.

What I do have a problem with is protection schemes that are not transparent to owners of legitimately purchased copies but are transparent to the very people the protection scheme is intended to stop. The present case being the prevention of 1080i upconversion of SD DVD over component connections.

 

[dpippel]

There hasn't been a single home video copy protection scheme developed that hasn't been cracked. That's a fact. I seriously doubt that the "menacing" DRM that Blu-ray offers will be any different. As has happened in the past, the criminals who make a business out of pirating Hollywood films will find a way to get around it and the problem will remain.

Historically speaking, the entertainment industry has spent billions of dollars developing and implementing electronic copy protection that simply doesn't work. Blu-ray/HD_DVD will be no different. Perhaps they should consider directing those financial resources towards researching more effective alternatives.

 

[Vincent_P]

Like making better movies?

Vincent

 

[PeterTHX]

AFAIK HDCP hasn't, and it's been around for a few years now.

 

[Cees Alons]

Of course they should. Unfortunately, some aren't.

It started with MacroVision (some honest users have reported problems), and now the digital logic (like the revoking of player licenses in BD+) is more hazardous in principle. It may never be used (but leave it out altogether then, please), however, as all digital methods, it is prone to errors. The threat and unfriendliness lie in the relative irreversibility of the effects.

At the moment HD DVD is more user-friendly in this respect, but we'll have to wait and see what is going to be implemented in a next version might they get more interesting to the studios marketwise.


Cees

 

[dpippel]

HDCP is hardware-implemented copy protection. It's not on the disc. Real pirates don't record video output from a DVD player to get what they want - they rip the data directly from the media and then replicate it. This is why CP like Macrovision and limiting SD DVD upconversion to HDCP-compliant digital outputs is so silly. All it does is cause inconvenience for the consumer. It does absolutely nothing to deter anything but the most casual piracy.

 

[dpippel]

I hear they've been working on that for years, but it's still in beta.