"West Side Story" blu-ray Street Date:October 17th (1 Viewer)

[Phoebus]

Frankly I'm unconcerned with this. Strikes me as precisely the same as any other overture on dvd or blu that plays then fades for the opening titles, as though that print was designed with overture to be played with curtain closed.. fade to black, project.. blue image.. As such I'm not convinced this is such a big deal, particularly if they've sourced a particular 70mm print for their scanning. It surprised me at the time because I'm unfamiliar with at fade there, but it seemed logical for some working prints to be set up in this manner. If I'm watching a genuine print of the time fading to black prior to opening titles, I don't see any genuine issue here. AND what overture doesnt fade to black prior to the main titles on those roadshow movies so far committed to blu. More construcive reviews would be appreciated on here by me. There's a lot of good stuff on offer here.

 

[Mark-P]

deleted.

 

[Mark-P]

Now that makes the most sense-- specially designed prints for a curtain close and open. Good thinking.

Frankly I'm unconcerned with this. Strikes me as precisely the same as any other overture on dvd or blu that plays then fades for the opening titles, as though that print was designed with overture to be played with curtain closed.. fade to black, project.. blue image.. As such I'm not convinced this is such a big deal, particularly if they've sourced a particular 70mm print for their scanning. It surprised me at the time because I'm unfamiliar with at fade there, but it seemed logical for some working prints to be set up in this manner. If I'm watching a genuine print of the time fading to black prior to opening titles, I don't see any genuine issue here. AND what overture doesnt fade to black prior to the main titles on those roadshow movies so far committed to blu. More construcive reviews would be appreciated on here by me. There's a lot of good stuff on offer here.

 

[Mark-P]

deleted.

 

But this overture was different from others. The Saul Bass designed image changed as did the colors until the title came onscreen.

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by AdrianTurner

OK . . . I'll try and explain it better. The Overture plays from the start as it should do and the Blu-ray image is very sharp. At the climax of the Overture, the moment when the music changes tempo and the color should switch to blue and the zoom-out, there is a quick fade to black and a second's silence. Then we get the final section of the music and the blue image. To begin with, this image is very fuzzy indeed and then it clears and becomes sharp with the zoom-out to reveal the title West Side Story. The dissolve from the Saul Bass design to the live shot of New York is just as it should be.
I'd like to have RAH's expert opinion on this. I must say I was apprehensive from the start - the artwork on the box isn't right; then there's the Fox logo and I only feel comfortable with a Fox logo on a Fox movie; the menu screen is very smartly designed; then we get the MGM logo on a non-MGM movie and maybe this is part of the problem - the source material which might have had a flawed Overture. And I also suspect the guys who did this Blu-ray didn't know the movie and thought 'This is an Overture and why does it go straight into the main title without a fade, like most movies?' I suppose we must be grateful that they didn't put the word "Overture" across the Saul Bass design.
Anyway, my disc is going back to Amazon.co.uk.
Roll on My Fair Lady.

Not sure that I'd get your hopes up for MFL.

 

[Robert Harris]

There have been occasional overtures which, rather than being projected without image, were projected with image on screen.


My Fair Lady was one.


West Side Story is another.


WSS has image on screen beginning 12 feet after the start mark, and Fade In.


Shortly after 012-0 -- the first 15 seconds or so is color clear (black on screen) -- the abstract lines Fade In.


Dissolves, changing colors, occur at:


66-12, 138-4, 148-7, 178-12, 186-12, 194-12, 321-12, finally dissolving into the Main Title

at 414-4.

Main Title runs for 27-12 (27 feet 12 frames), and then dissolves into a shot of NYC, which is 10-15.


The body of the film begins 442 feet even from the start mark.


Couldn't be simpler.


If this affects the release here in the Colonies, it's an automatic recall.


Looking forward to seeing this, and finding out precisely who should be losing their job if it isn't perfect,

which it should be.


While the film needed to be restored, there's no heavy lifting here. This is simple stuff.


I'm actually a bit confused as precisely what it is that studios are doing these days.


Not to change the subject, but having image on screen made the manufacture of prints a bit easier, as in
many cases, prints were struck specifically for theatres, based upon the type and thickness

(i.e., audio transparency) of their curtains.


There would have been specific overture, entr'acte and exit play outs for differing types of curtains.


RAH

 

[Howard S]

as though that print was designed with overture to be played with curtain closed

The following link from Wide Screen Museum contains the projection instructions for the 70mm Roadshow presentation, and confirms that curtains should be open during the overture. Makes interesting reading if you want to replicate the original presentation in a home cinema... http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/widescreen/wss_presentation.htm

 

[Howard S]

A poster on another forum is reporting obvious "shimmering/moire patterning" during the aerial photography immediately after the titles, and on the chain-link fences around the playground. Could be an issue caused by their display equipment, but I'd be interested to hear whether any others are seeing the same effect. They were saying that it took them out of the film.

 

[Phoebus]

Definitely a lot of flicker during the aerial sequence, usually around the white parts of a building. Not comfortable to view.

 

[Bob Cashill]

This thread has gone viral: http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2011/10/west_side_story.php

 

[Robert Harris]

I've not yet seen a frame of this, and remain hopeful that the UK version may be a retaliation for the burning and destruction of some small towns in the Colonies during the Revolution.


While if problems are found to exist -- and there is no reason for this Blu-ray to be anything other than 100% perfect -- product can be returned to vendors.


I would not suggest canceling orders unless and until the actual final product is viewed and found defective.


I've only noted a single review on line, from Home Cinema Choice. And it appears to be a rave.


"Picture: According to the studio, West Side Story 'has undergone hundreds of hours of restoration' for this Blu-ray release - a fact that shines through in the Blu-ray's sumptuous AVC 2.20:1 1080p encode. While there's some very slight sharpening and even some shimmering backgrounds in a handful of shots, this new restoration excels with the film's combination of thick grain, waxy colours and ultra-deep blacks. Most telling of all is the gym dance (Chapter 7), a particularly troublesome sequence with heavily-saturated reds, which are rendered perfectly stable in this Blu-ray encode, with even Maria's virginal white dress unaffected by bleed. It's hard to imagine the film could ever look any better than this."


RAH

 

[Phoebus]

There is indeed a lot to admire, even to love, after a slightly troublesome opening.

 

[Robin9]

I've not yet seen a frame of this, and remain hopeful that the UK version may be a retaliation for the burning and destruction of some small towns in the Colonies during the Revolution.


While if problems are found to exist -- and there is no reason for this Blu-ray to be anything other than 100% perfect -- product can be returned to vendors.


I would not suggest canceling orders unless and until the actual final product is viewed and found defective.


I've only noted a single review on line, from Home Cinema Choice. And it appears to be a rave.


"Picture: According to the studio, West Side Story 'has undergone hundreds of hours of restoration' for this Blu-ray release - a fact that shines through in the Blu-ray's sumptuous AVC 2.20:1 1080p encode. While there's some very slight sharpening and even some shimmering backgrounds in a handful of shots, this new restoration excels with the film's combination of thick grain, waxy colours and ultra-deep blacks. Most telling of all is the gym dance (Chapter 7), a particularly troublesome sequence with heavily-saturated reds, which are rendered perfectly stable in this Blu-ray encode, with even Maria's virginal white dress unaffected by bleed. It's hard to imagine the film could ever look any better than this."


RAH

Like you, I've yet to see this BRD so at present I haven't a dog in this fight, but a word of warning about Home Cinema Choice's idea of what is a good Blu-ray disc: They regard Patton as a superb BRD.

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by Robin9


Like you, I've yet to see this BRD so at present I haven't a dog in this fight, but a word of warning about Home Cinema Choice's idea of what is a good Blu-ray disc: They regard Patton as a superb BRD.

Then one might be led to presume that:


A. They like everything so that they can receive mountains of free software.


or


B. Their viewing environment is a screen 30" or smaller.


and in regard to audio...


C. They either know nothing about how films looked or sounded originally.


or


D. They listen to audio as left and right only.


Either way, it's either a win/win or a perfect storm.


RAH

 

[Phoebus]

I was struck by similarities with Fiddler on the Roof, in that all the best dancing and songs are in the first half, and the second half seems to take forever to get where it's going to, cue tragic episodes and less interesting songs/dances. Is this a traditional trait of Mr Robbins as director/choreographer? I wondered to myself..

 

[Charles Smith]

As I caught up with this thread late last night, I sat here watching that thumbnail video of the overture, on a laptop -- TRANSFIXED -- as thrilled by the genius of Leonard Bernstein, the arrangers/orchestrators, and Saul Bass as I was the night it unspooled in front of me in 1963. (I didn't see it in roadshow but was there the first night of my local general release -- and yes, I clearly remember that night.) Don't know how many countless times I've seen the film, but in all those years at various kinds of theaters (and a couple of drive-ins) I don't think there was ever a screw-up -- the overture was always intact, we even got the intermission in the early general release, and I simply can't believe there's any way that anyone could dream of fucking with this, or even do so accidentally. Right? Oops, maybe wrong. Later, I walked by the shelf with the DVD set -- not a deliberate action, but there it was -- and experienced a new thrill of relief upon seeing it.


I deliberately mention the arrangers and orchestrators. They took the original version of this overture, which, according to a notation in the score and in all I've read, was an afterthought but didn't get used in the original NYC stage production (I firmly believe it should never be used on stage, but local productions do it, and it's just so "ordinary"), and rearranged it a bit -- most importantly reworking and expanding the ending -- to create one of the great moments in a filmed musical before a single note is even sung (ahem, dubbed). And thanks to Johnny Green's tight, urgent conducting (especially here, but throughout the score)...there's never been anything like it.

So, this moment must not be altered or butchered -- from a musical standpoint any more than from any other standpoint -- and I will happily live with that DVD forever before putting myself through the misery of a screw-up -- or worse, exposing any new viewer to less than the perfect original execution.


Sorry for digression. I blame the link to that video. (Yeah, that's it.)

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by Chas in CT

As I caught up with this thread late last night, I sat here watching that thumbnail video of the overture, on a laptop -- TRANSFIXED -- as thrilled by the genius of Leonard Bernstein, the arrangers/orchestrators, and Saul Bass as I was the night it unspooled in front of me in 1963. (I didn't see it in roadshow but was there the first night of my local general release -- and yes, I clearly remember that night.) Don't know how many countless times I've seen the film, but in all those years at various kinds of theaters (and a couple of drive-ins) I don't think there was ever a screw-up -- the overture was always intact, we even got the intermission in the early general release, and I simply can't believe there's any way that anyone could dream of fucking with this, or even do so accidentally. Right? Oops, maybe wrong. Later, I walked by the shelf with the DVD set -- not a deliberate action, but there it was -- and experienced a new thrill of relief upon seeing it.


I deliberately mention the arrangers and orchestrators. They took the original version of this overture, which, according to a notation in the score and in all I've read, was an afterthought but didn't get used in the original NYC stage production (I firmly believe it should never be used on stage, but local productions do it, and it's just so "ordinary"), and rearranged it a bit -- most importantly reworking and expanding the ending -- to create one of the great moments in a filmed musical before a single note is even sung (ahem, dubbed). And thanks to Johnny Green's tight, urgent conducting (especially here, but throughout the score)...there's never been anything like it.

So, this moment must not be altered or butchered -- from a musical standpoint any more than from any other standpoint -- and I will happily live with that DVD forever before putting myself through the misery of a screw-up -- or worse, exposing any new viewer to less than the perfect original execution.


Sorry for digression. I blame the link to that video. (Yeah, that's it.)

One can easily go back the The Declaration of Independence for references to Quality Control (QC), as every stroke of the quill had to perfect.


We still have QC, even in video production environments.


If there is an actual problem, the answer may come down to something as simply as a QC person or team, having no idea what West Side Story is, or having no reference to what it should be.


In either case, it would be no way to run a railroad.


RAH

 

The dvd overture did look faded before the blue title card. It was between an orange and yellow, then green, then blue. According to the Roadshow notes, the screen should have been red before turning to blue.

 

[ahollis]

Originally Posted by Joe Caps


West Side story has always looked good and very good on dvd.
Thelast dvd (the box set) looked great and never sounded better !!
The only problem was the sync problem on tonight. The sync problem was not in the original, just that whenthe sound was married tothepicture for that reel, it was not done properly.
this Overture thing sucks, I just cancelled my order.
Lets see - Scrooge, now West side Story, mono lost Horizon. Dear Vid companies- leave our favorite musicals alone - please dont screw it up for no reason !!!

Let's not forget that they left off the Entr'acte music for IT'S A MAD MAD MAD MAD WORLD. Seems MGM has the wrong person checking these things out.