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Dennis Nicholls

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My father tells me that the 72VW beetle we had got around 50 MPG in New Jersey traffic.
I think your father's memory is somewhat hazy. I had a 1971 Karman Ghia and it only got about 28 mpg highway - and I recall specifically that it got better mileage than a bug because the bug had much much worse aerodynamics. Hitler's people's car was designed after all for farmers to drive at low speeds on country roads.

The best car I had for mileage was my 1959 Austin-Healey "Bugeye" Sprite. With 1275 cc engine and taller rear end it once got 46 mpg on a trip from San Jose CA to Mt. Hood OR and back.
 

drobbins

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Originally Posted by Dennis Nicholls

I think your father's memory is somewhat hazy.
That could very well be. But still my Escort was getting about 10mpg less that DaveF's Escort manufactured 9 years earlier.
 

Parker Clack

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I still say Ford,GM and Dodge need to release a "Classics" line of vehicles. For example, build exact models, not modern day interpretations, of the 65-68 Mustang, Camero and Firebird, the Bumblebee and Roadrunner with the same interiors and body as they originally came out with. Only put them on a modern day chasis with modern day engines. I know they would sell a boat load of them and I bet they would get great gas mileage to boot. Or take it even further and build them with electric engines. I would love to see an all electric version of the '67 Stang, '68 Camero, '69 Impala, '69 Olds 442.......

We have a 2009 Prius and love it. It averages around 45 miles per gallon highway and city. I also have a 2010 Mazda 3 and it averages around 28 in town and highway. I think the new Volt is a great idea but at $50,000 it is going to be a hard sell even though it will get great average mileage all the way around.

If the Telsa S was in the $35,000 range I know which line I would be in.
 

DaveF

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Originally Posted by Parker Clack ) what they need to do seems apparent to everyone but them: build cars that last and price them competitively. I watch and talk with peers, us Gen X'ers who now are mid-career, with family, and buy $20k - $40k cars. We don't buy "domestic". I think they've lost a generation or two, and will take 5-10 years to recover, if they can. Even if, say, today's Taurus is every bit the equal to a Camry, we're not going to believe it for a decade, after it's proven itself. "Initial quality" is a joke. Everything is great the first day. What matters is how much time is wasted in the mechanic's shop two years later.
 

Edwin-S

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Originally Posted by DaveF ) what they need to do seems apparent to everyone but them: build cars that last and price them competitively. I watch and talk with peers, us Gen X'ers who now are mid-career, with family, and buy $20k - $40k cars. We don't buy "domestic". I think they've lost a generation or two, and will take 5-10 years to recover, if they can. Even if, say, today's Taurus is every bit the equal to a Camry, we're not going to believe it for a decade, after it's proven itself. "Initial quality" is a joke. Everything is great the first day. What matters is how much time is wasted in the mechanic's shop two years later.


My brother-in-law owns a domestic make and it hasn't seen the inside of a mechanic's shop, other than for regular maintenance, in the entire time he has owned it. The car is more than 5 years old. I think the old saw that domestic makes are of poor quality is just that....an old saw. The fit, finish and reliability of domestic cars has improved quite a bit. The main reason I went with a Japanese car (Acura) is due to the fact that I think the designs of most domestic cars are boring compared to Japanese or European makes; although, I have to admit being partial to the new Dodge Challenger. I think that car looks sharp. GM also has finally succeeded in making a Corvette that isn't ugly like a lot of their previous versions were.

The Volt looks like an interesting concept, but 50 grand is just too far up the price ladder for me to ever seriously consider it. I'm also not really partial to that chunky look. It reminds me too much of the Chrysler design philosophy that went in to cars such as the 300C and the Charger. Also, I don' t think electric vehicles would be very practical where I live. It gets pretty cold up here, so I'm sure the range of any such vehicle would be seriously affected due to shortened battery life.
 

CRyan

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I think the problem Dave is really referring to is many of us in their 20's and 30's are simply not looking at domestics because of what we grew up hearing - that US cars suck. I am not saying they do, but its what we heard. That coupled with a crapload of just ugly vehicles that ended up on rental lots didnt help. And those cars on those rental lots were many of our only experiences with domestic vehicles (they rattled, had interiors of all plastic (nothing soft to the touch except the seats), had louder cabins, felt unsubstantial when closing a door, and no matter how small the car was you still felt like you were driving a boat).

Couple that with a generation that EXPECTS cars to last till 150,000 without an ounce of trouble and the US market has a continued stigma of crap cheap feeling cars - Because when trying to decide on a car, most people dont look at reliability histories just at the past two years - they want to know how that model has faired over the past 6-8 years.

I would say in my view, the only vehicle that has escaped this view, is a Ford truck. And I dont even know why I think that.


Originally Posted by Edwin-S





My brother-in-law owns a domestic make and it hasn't seen the inside of a mechanic's shop, other than for regular maintenance, in the entire time he has owned it. The car is more than 5 years old. I think the old saw that domestic makes are of poor quality is just that....an old saw. The fit, finish and reliability of domestic cars has improved quite a bit. The main reason I went with a Japanese car (Acura) is due to the fact that I think the designs of most domestic cars are boring compared to Japanese or European makes; although, I have to admit being partial to the new Dodge Challenger. I think that car looks sharp. GM also has finally succeeded in making a Corvette that isn't ugly like a lot of their previous versions were.

The Volt looks like an interesting concept, but 50 grand is just too far up the price ladder for me to ever seriously consider it. I'm also not really partial to that chunky look. It reminds me too much of the Chrysler design philosophy that went in to cars such as the 300C and the Charger. Also, I don' t think electric vehicles would be very practical where I live. It gets pretty cold up here, so I'm sure the range of any such vehicle would be seriously affected due to shortened battery life.
 

Johnny Angell

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Originally Posted by DaveF




My 93 Ford Escort got 38 - 42 MPG on the highway. 16 years later and $10k more expensive, and the most advanced efficiency car on the planet improves over my bottom-of-the-line Ford by a meager 25%?

I hope that plug-in electrics bring significant advances to driving efficiencies. I can't get excited about Hybrids.
25% is meager? 10K more expensive? Are you just comparing the published sticker price or factoring in inflation? After all, it is 16 years later. How do emissions compare between the two cars?
 

DaveF

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Ah, I didn't realize the "S" was the "sedan" over the sports car.

And I was comparing normal highway of a bottom-tier, compact car to the normal highway of the most advanced fuel-efficiency car to date.

I have no gripe with anyone buying a Prius, or other Hybrid: it's the best gas mileage you can buy. But from an product evolution perspective, I find it disappointing that an el-cheapo Escort from a decade ago competes with Toyota's most advanced tech for highway mileage.
 

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