Warren Buffet Giving Away Almost $40 Billion! (1 Viewer)

[AjayM]

Or maybe saving millions of lives per year in countries that redefine the word "poor" is more important.

 

[Chu Gai]

Not a whole lot of difference between outsourcing to other countries and jobs that are replaced by machines. Might as well rail against all those people who lost their jobs to automated bottle making or farms that use columbines to harvest wheat.

 

[Jeff Gatie]

Uhhm, Chu, that would be "combines", Columbine was a school shooting. To paraphrase Loyd Dobbler - "'LU', big difference."

 

[Chu Gai]

Oops!

 

[AjayM]

Well if you want to get really picky, Columbine is a city in Colorado which was made famous by a shooting at the local high school

 

[Jeff Gatie]

Well, Michael Moore told me it was a bowling alley (or something like that).

 

[RobertR]

No, picky is saying the SCHOOL is Columbine, not the city. The city is Littleton, Colorado, not Columbine (I grew up in Denver and was shocked to hear that such a thing had happened in Littleton, which is a Denver suburb).

 

[BrianW]

Obviously? It never ceases to amaze me the extent to which some debaters presume to know their opponents by the arguments they make. Certainly, some things in a debate can be inferred of an opponent, like subject knowledge, critical thinking skills, or even intelligence (or lack of it). But to presume to be true such a quantifiable, testable, and unlikely (given the number this applies to) notion such as "all the defenders of Capitalism here haven't had their jobs outsourced" is a little risky, don't you think?

I gather from this presumption that you seem to think our world view is so small that we cannot possibly embrace a philosophy capable of doing us personal harm while still being good for society in general. Do you truly believe that losing a job to outsourcing is all it would take for us to stop being "defenders of Capitalism"? Honestly, I think I would be less insulted if you had simply called us all stupid.

Is your world view so small? Are you incapable of attributing to others the ability to altruistically embrace a philosophy because you yourself are incapable of doing so? Is every philosophy you embrace "All About You" as you suggest it is with us?

Just asking.

In any case, it's quite obvious to me all detractors of capitalism here had two sadistic, older sisters who, when they were toddlers, tied them to a chair in front of the television and made them watch "Creature Features" every week on the Saturday Afternoon B-Movie Matinee, and smacked them with a plactic baseball bat every time they closed their eyes to avoid seeing something scary.

But then, I may be going out on a limb on that last one...

(Or perhaps I'm just projecting )

 

[Holadem]

You had to bring that up :frowning:.

--
H

 

[RobertR]

An additional point needs to be made: Beyond the "it's all about me" aspect that Edwin sounds so focused on, he ignores the fact that you CANNOT claim that an economic system or policy is "bad" simply by pointing to examples of people losing their jobs because of it. The FACT, is, for example, that American buyers of automobiles are FAR better off with the presence of Japanese competition, and no amount of personal or impersonal anecdotes about the "poor laid off UAW worker" changes that fact. Whether or not Edwin chooses to acknowledge it, capitalist decisions leading to outsourcing do have benefits for the American economy as a whole, and I'd much rather have such cost/benefit decisions made under capitalism than by political fiat (as Edwin seems to favor).

 

[BrianW]

Right, Robert. Political Fiat. I was getting to that.

As Robert has so intelligently pointed out -- and I wholeheartedly agree -- a political fiat isn't nearly as good or reliable as an American or Japanese car.

 

[Todd Hochard]

Sweet Jeebus, the level of self-importance in here is over-the-top.

It's easy to look around find evil capitalists (Ken Lay, Carly Fiorina, Rich McGinn, etc). I wouldn't count Gates and Buffet (or Soros, for that matter) among them. I think it's swell that they intend to give away all their loot.

 

[Edwin-S]

I had prepared a response, but after reading it I decided not to post it. It is beyond the scope of the thread topic and would just continue to take the thread off topic. I really want to answer but I feel too strongly about the off topic subject and my comments could just result in someone, or myself, being offended. The fact of the matter is I used to be a big believer in Capitalism when I was younger, but decades of watching more and more wealth being concentrated among fewer and fewer people, while poverty just gets worse, has convinced me that "Capitalism" and "Free Enterprise" are just as much garbage as Communism. Unfortunately, it is the only garbage system left. So, until it chokes on its own excess and stupidity, a person has to adapt to and live in the cess pool.

 

[Ricardo C]

By all means, Edwin, describe the system you champion, then.

 

[Jeff Gatie]

These are arguments of assumption and jealousy, with barely concealed vitriol, with absolutely no purpose towrds civil debate, except to slander the opposition or their choice of vocation. These have been quickly followed by posts which say "I can't go on from here because someone will get offended." Well of course we are offended (mostly by the fact that the debater is not debating our points, they are just ranting). If you have logical, debatable and non-emotional arguments against capitalism, let's hear them. It is certainly germain to the topic. Unfortunately, every "capitalism is bad" conversation I've ever had has degenerated into the anti-capitalists saying the same thing - "You greedy bastards don't care about the little people". Hmmm, maybe the fact the debate always degenerate into an emotional tantrum by the anti-capitalists should tell us something.

 

[Joe Szott]

The real problem I am seeing here is that discussing outsourcing and free trade really ends up talking about the American economy for the last 20 years and it's place in the wider global economy. I wouldn't claim to understand all of that, wouldn't expect anyone else here to claim it either. But to really lay into this topic would require much more than an after hours thread on a home theater forum. Misunderstanding looks to be the rule, not the exception.

I'm not saying don't talk about it, but please guys have a little patience for those with other views. The topic is way too broad to dissect into 2 or 3 paragraphs on an online forum, there are going to be communication challenges. Let's not rip each other to shreds or fall on our swords just yet...

 

[RobertR]

It's made more difficult by the fact that the American economy is not purely capitalist, but rather a mixed economy, with varying degrees of State intervention, political favoritism, taxation, etc. That makes it not so easy to blame capitalism per se for a given economic problem. It then becomes a question of debating the pro and cons of various interventions vs. laissez - faire or market-based solutions. No one but a few academics argues these days for a complete command economy (historical facts having rather thoroughly debunked the efficacy of such an approach).

 

[Jeff Gatie]

I have an immense amount of patience with others' views if they express them in terms of a debate. I'll not stand to be personally ridiculed or my occupation demeaned as the quotes I listed above demonstrate. To allow "patience" in the face of such attacks is to also give merit to emotionally fueled anti-capitalism rants that have no substance, only fury and frustration. Those who are against Gates and Buffet, please reread the thread and see if you can really answer the many, many logical arguments given in their defense, leaving out the emotion fueled rants and personal attacks that have heretofore been used as a response to every point of logic given.