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Von Trier's DOGVILLE (1 Viewer)

MarcusUdeh

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After several false beginnings the opportunity to see Dogville during its US theatrical run presented itself to me last night, at an art house in Long Beach, California. My guest and I sat there for the first eight minutes of the feature in discomfort and disbelief. Now I did prepare her for the pretentious nature of the film's premise, however to actually watch it executed was a heavier item to hold. By the end I was shocked; by how powerful this filmmaking style helped the story. The ending truly paid off, though I'm sadden that Nicole Kidman won't be playing Grace in the follow up chapter of the director's America Trilogy. BTW is it just me but this movie didn't need to be three hours? Though I am glad Lions' Gate decided to release Dogville in the director's intended length. I'm starting to hate straight to home video special edition releases.
 

Haggai

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I don't think it needed to be three hours long. I also thought a decent amount of the narration was unnecessary, i.e. it was telling us stuff that we could pretty much pick up on our own from the interactions between the characters. Then again, John Hurt has a really cool voice, so maybe it was just about getting mileage out of that. Or maybe it was Von Trier being all, "hey, the audience doesn't need some of this stuff explained by narration, but let's do it anyway, ooooh, look at me, I'm so against-the-grain, and stuff." Heh, I kid, but I admired the movie. :D
 

Herschel

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I also thought a decent amount of the narration was unnecessary, i.e. it was telling us stuff that we could pretty much pick up on our own from the interactions between the characters.
The narration was still interesting, though. As things deteriorated, the narration only barely hinted at what was going on. It was a completely whitewashed, positively spun version of what was going on.

By the way, speaking of spin, did anyone watch the trailer on the R1 DVD? Wow. They try so hard to sell it like it's a completely different kind of movie. They don't let you see any of the minimalist set (making it seem like a "normal" movie), and try to give the impression that Grace hides her "fugitive" status from the town. And then they find out, and what will they do? The trailer was selling that as the plot...

(Sorry for the late bump of this thread, I just got around to watching this over the weekend.)
 

Rich Malloy

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Less narration??? But it's too hilarious, too dripping with contempt, too much malicious glee -- just too damn much fun to lose even one second of it! ;)

I'm sadden that Nicole Kidman won't be playing Grace in the follow up chapter of the director's America Trilogy.
Whoa... really? I'm saddened, too. Von Trier's shoots only take about 8 weeks. Really wish Kidman would do it. She really seemed personally -if not legally- committed to the whole project in the interviews/press conferences/etc. on the Danish R2 DVD. :frowning:
 

Brook K

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Rich, there was a big "he said, she said" to-do about the whole thing late last year. Kidman, or her handlers said that Von Trier wanted her to commit to doing nothing else for most of a year even though he might only need her for 1-2 months and that he wouldn't commit to an exact start date so they could work it into Kidman's schedule. Von Trier said that he bent over backwards offering her possible start dates and that she was the one that turned him down and wouldn't commit to anything. So Von Trier decided that he would have a different actress play Grace in each film, with Ron Howard's daughter, Bryce Dallas Howard, selected for Manderlay.

I was sad about it at first as I think Kidman is one of, if not THE best actress in Hollywood; but Bryce Dallas Howard was absolutely luminous in The Village. She was by far the best aspect of the film. I really have no trepidation with her picking up the Grace role. Danny Glover mentions being in it in his last page interview in Premiere. He spoke like it was either done, or at least his part of the filming was complete.

Oh, and as usual, I agree with Rich on the Dogville narration.
 

Sam Davatchi

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The special "thing" about the movie is that there are no sets. Everything is drawn with a white line on the black floor to illustrate the houses of the town.
I tried this movie 2 weeks ago and that theatrical thing was way way distracting for me. So distracting that I turned it off after 15 minutes. I want sets, props and real environments in a movie! Otherwise, write a play!
 

Nick Sievers

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So distracting that I turned it off after 15 minutes.
When I saw the film for the first time, it was quite a shock because I wasn't aware of the minimalist approach but after about 30mins I totally forgot all about it. Maybe it depends how drawn in to the story you are. Someone I work with turned it off after 5mins, so you lasted longer than them. :)
 

Sam Davatchi

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And I just learned all about the story and it's a wonderful story. If he had used real sets and everything I believe it would have been a big strong drama with lots of BANG. I mean it would have made lots of noise.
 

Rich Malloy

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I tried this movie 2 weeks ago and that theatrical thing was way way distracting for me. So distracting that I turned it off after 15 minutes. I want sets, props and real environments in a movie! Otherwise, write a play!
You missed out big-time.

Thanks for the low-down, Brook, but that's quite a shame! If you have the Danish R2 DVD (and if you like this movie at all, you should definitely have the Danish release), check out the Kidman interviews -- she seems completely committed. Sorry to hear it's not gonna happen, but I've heard good things about Howard's role in "The Village". And, after all, von Trier didn't use the same actress for each film in the Golden Heart Trilogy.

But am I to understand that the character of "Grace" in "Manderley" is supposed to be the same "Grace" as in "Dogville"?
 

Herschel

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When I saw the film for the first time, it was quite a shock because I wasn't aware of the minimalist approach but after about 30mins I totally forgot all about it.
Me too. To be honest, when it started, I was really hoping that the whole movie wasn't going to be that minimalist set. But after a little while, you just get used to it and focus on the characters.

In the commentary track von Trier talks about Nicole not doing Manderlay:

DP: "It's a pity that Nic isn't doing the second one."

von Trier: "But come on, we'll show her, we'll show her that it can be done without her. ... It's no problem. Well, it will be a problem, but don't tell anyone."
 

Michael Reuben

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Otherwise, write a play!
By staging Dogville in a bare space, Von Trier gets one of the artistic advantages of live drama, because the audience is forced to help invent the experience of the story along with the actors and filmmakers. Viewers have to become active participants. But because it's still film, Von Trier can maintain much stricter control over what the audience members see and where they look, and he can present perspectives (e.g., the overhead shots) that could never be achieved in theater.

M.
 

Brook K

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I'm not sure that Grace is supposed to be the same character. There will probably just be similar themes and aspects to the character as in The Golden Hearts. Her father in Manderlay is played by Willem Dafoe so he's probably not the same character as James Caan either.

Have you heard about the donkey slaughter? The story goes that Von Trier has a donkey actually killed during a scene in Manderlay, prompting John C. Reilly to walk off the set. But Reilly hasn't said a word about it so hard telling if it is true or just one of those spiralling "movie set" rumours.

My new region-free player just arrived today (Zenith DVB 318) and Dogville will be one of the first discs I order.

And thanks for your perspective Michael.
 

Edwin Pereyra

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Lars von Trier’s Dogville is an experimental cinema that, at a technical level, is creative, bold and audacious. It challenges its audience to be imaginative and responsive to a very minimalist production values approach. It is an art house piece that combines performances from a strong ensemble. It is at this level that I can recommend this motion picture.

Its story and themes, however, are a different matter. This is another film in Von Trier’s repertoire that continues to accentuate the negative in human nature. As with Dancer In The Dark, it manages to combine many of the injustices in the world into one setting so as to create a hyper realistic imperfect and evil situation for the protagonist, or in this case, a sharp and pointed critique of the American society.

von Trier is not the one to temper his comments against America and Americans in general. In the film’s production notes, von Trier says, “I don’t think Americans are more evil than others but then again, I don’t see them as less evil than the bandit states Mr. Bush has been talking about so much.” In Dancer In The Dark, he paints an inaccurate picture of the American justice system. Dogville is no doubt a vehicle for von Trier to provoke his audience again and at the same time immense himself in his own self-importance.

Without a doubt, a talented and creative provocateur, von Trier is a risk taker and likes the controversy that his films generate. But as much as he likes to criticize others for their own ideals along with their transgressions, I have yet to accept some of the themes he purports to advance without the need to delve into his own self-worth.

~Edwin
 

Iver

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Sep 23, 2002
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I want sets, props and real environments in a movie! Otherwise, write a play!
Initially I found that a major turnoff as I'm not overly fond of filmed plays (The Shape of Things, i.e.).

But after the first couple of chapters the story got me sufficiently involved to allow for acceptance of the visuals.

This is a great date movie if you want to spend the next couple of weeks chatting about it with your date. Bring plenty of money for coffee.
 

amparo

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Jan 14, 2005
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I think it´s a wanderful film. It´s one of the more original film in years and nicole performance is superb. Von trier is a genius.
 

Ryan FB

Second Unit
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There's a trailer up for Manderlay (the sequel to Dogville) here. Some (most) people might find the trailer to be a bit offensive, so keep that in mind before you click the link.
 

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