Used Saab or new VW??? (1 Viewer)

[Philip Hamm]

Hey John do you read talkbass? I'm "PhilBiker" over there.
They have a very exclusive clientelle.

I would not recommend a new Volvo unless you have a very good relationship with your mechanic. Their reliability, once fantastic, has from what I've read turned very poor in recent years.

My wife likes a stick shift car and when we were shopping for her car a couple years ago we were favoring Saabs and VWs. We ended up with a Passat which has been so far so good. I've had a great driving experience, but dissapointing mechanical experience (very high regular maintenance requirements), with my Audi over the last 4 years and would not buy another VW product as a long term automobile.

Have you looked at Subaru wagons? The Legacy wagon, Legacy GT wagon, and Outback wagon are exceptional vehicles and are readily available with 5-speed trannies. I'm planning on buying one to replace my problematic Audi.

 

[Shane Martin]

This isn't a bad idea actually. WIth the new model coming you will probably get a pretty good deal on a new Subaru.

 

[LDfan]

I always thought Audi/VW cars were built very well. What kind of problems are common with them?


Jeff

 

[andrew markworthy]

I think they're generally pretty reliable. *However* I have to say that after years of drivin VWs, my wife and I gave up on them after a recurrent battery problem with the new Golf we had (basically, the battery went dead every 4-5 days unless it was driven). The attitude of the local garage didn't help (do you have the phrase 'snotty nosed' in America?). Having said that, that is one car and one garage, and I wouldn't be deterred just by that. Incidentally, we switched to the Peugeot 307, which is a gorgeous little (well, big inside actually) family car. However, I don't think you can get them in N America. If you can, then it's probably worth looking at the station wagon version.

I think something worth noting about Saabs is that they can feel a bit cramped inside (particularly when compared with the Volvo).

 

[Shawn C]

Sorry, I guess I kinda thread farted with the Volvos, but I just wanted to give an alternative since there aren't alot of wagons out there to be had.


BUT, I must fart on this thread again to post a picture of the new 2005 S40. It IS available with a manual tranny:

 

[Philip Hamm]

I've had a few curious problems with my Audi. The water pump died at 28K. The rear differential pinion seal died at 50K. To be fair those are random and could have happened to any car.

However, the brakes are designed to wear out and need pad and rotor replacement every 20-30K miles. They are designed for no-compromise performance, and they really do kick ass, but I'm on my third set of front rotors and pads at 55K miles, I just replaced the front brakes at a cost of $650+. That no compromise design philosophy is all over this car. It performs fantastically, but the maintenance requirements are too much for me. I think our Passat is going to be the same way.

Volvo is owned by Ford, Saab by GM.

 

[DaveF]

Consumer Reports results show the VW as having average 5-year reliability and the Audi with average to sub-average reliability. The last few years bore this out with the Audi A4 suffering the coil-pack problem and window mounts in hot weather. But hopefully the recent redesigns have continued to improve the cars.

Otherwise they drive very well, look great, and have loads of luxury features. And have great fit and finish.

 

[John Knowles]

Philip, I do read talkbass from time to time....I'm "Shoes4Industry" there...

Wow, that new Volvo looks really nice, but it seems as though I would need a V70 or similar to meet my space needs.

It appears as though the Saabs and the VWs have similar reliability--both "average" and expensive to repair. The difference for me is that I'd be getting a new Passat and a 2 year old Saab. I still haven't driven the VW or tried putting the bass in it. Both these cars have turbo engines and need premium gas. A friend of mine has a 3 year old Jetta with the 1.8T engine and he was told by the dealer's service department that he didn't need to use premium. I read somewhere else that *all* turbos need premium. Any thoughts on that? The expensive gas will add up over the years.

I'm considering a Subaru. I know they'll be more reliable, but (and this isn't the most powerful reason) I know a LOT of people here in MN who drive Outbacks and they (the cars that is) seem kinda boring....easily getting a manual transmission is a plus though. I don't really care all that much about the 4 wheel drive; my FWD cars seem to get around fine here.

Thanks for all the answers here; I'm getting some good ideas for sure.

 

[Philip Hamm]

I use 89 in my A4 and my wife uses 89 in her Passat and both run like tops. Saab hatchbacks are -so- convenient and have so much room. We really love them and almost got a used 93 when we got her Passat.

 

[John Knowles]

You know, I was wondering about the whole mid-grade gas thing. I've never owned a car that needed anything other than regular...getting away with the mid, 89 octane gas would certainly help.

 

[FredHD]

Maybe a Scion XB will work for you.

Super roomy.

 

[John Knowles]

Do they sell them in MN? It seems kinda like the Honda Element; cool, but more the height vs length thing again. To deviate slightly, why is it that only the "gen y" or whatever group these vehicles are marketed towards has a factory stereo with a mp3 player input? Lots of aftermarket gear has this feature. We often use an iPod for tunes on trips and it'd be really nice to ditch the cassette adapter and plug right in. Maybe they'll add this feature ten years from now....:rolleyes

 

[Jason_Els]

The new Subaru Legacy/Outbacks are beautiful and, in keeping with Subaru's new performance-oriented image, quite fast.

From Subaru's press release:

That 2.5 turbo is no slouch. It's the same engine as in the Cayenne-killer Forester XT. The MY2005 Legacy/Oubacks are a big step for Subaru. They're already on sale elsewhere in the world so you won't be guinea pig if you get one. I recommend waiting just a little bit longer and see if you don't like these.

And AWD in Minnesota is surely the best choice. You can check out the specs and see more at Subaru Global's website:

 

[Rogozhin]

I am a saab enthusiast and would take most of them anyday for the money.

I'm thinking of picking up a 2000 9-3

Right now I have 4 C900s-the driver at the moment in the 89 SPG (for $1300)

rogo

 

[John Knowles]

I'm curious, what is it you like about Saabs? I'm still considering one, but after comparing insurance rates, the Saabs are a bit higher than the other cars I've been looking at. I'm also going to check out a Honda CR-V (I know it's kind of an apples to oranges thing). I don't know that it's long enough, but it seems good otherwise and I've had amazing luck with my Accord.

 

[Scott Wong]

John:

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to the forum. We purchased from Denny Hecker's in Inver Grove Heights. They gave me a fantastic deal on my trade in (2001 Lexus IS300) and gave me an even better deal on my '03 GTI 20th Anniversary Edition. The buying process was really nice... but I have several complications with the dealership after I picked the vehicle up. They were nothing too major, just little things that I personally thought lacked customer service. But otherwise, I can't complain especially since I got a good deal.

Scott.

 

[Jason_Els]

I like Saabs too. I owned two of them before I got my Subaru (I have a luge run for a driveway). Saabs handle well, have great space, awesome seats, and get good milage. They do cost more for insurance because they cost so much to fix. When my ECU died in my 9000 it cost me $900 for the replacement, $125 in labor.

Saabs used to be much quirkier than they are now. GM's influence has pacified the brand and while quality control has gone up, the unique, aviation-inspired, weird but safe cars that I love are now history. Saab the car manufacturer is now completely divorced from Saab the aerospace company and it shows. They're now bland front-wheel drive European luxury sedans with spartan interiors. The turbocharged engines are excellent and have better reputations than the 6-cylinders borrowed from GM. The resale value of Saabs is quite poor compared to other Eurobrands of the same group.

Saab is partnering with another company that GM owns an interest in, Subaru. Thankfully GM only owns 25% of Subaru so there isn't as much pressure to unify the platforms but Subaru aligning with Saab could be something great. Both are maverick manufacturers with ample experience in turbocharged engines and their lines will compliment each other immensely. The first Saaburu, the 92 is due in Saab showrooms this June. It's essentially a tarted-up Impreza (and looks it) but it's a good first step for two companies that don't fit the usual car conglomerate mould.

 

[John Knowles]

Hi Scott,

Thanks for the info about the dealership. I'm getting "ready" to do the research on pricing and while I've bought used cars from a couple different dealers here, I didn't have to do much bargaining as the asking price was good from the start.

Jason,

I totally see what you mean about Saab in general. I've looked at a 2001 9-5 wagon SE with the V6. I've heard others say they didn't like the 6 as much as the Saab-designed 4. I thought the 6 did well with an automatic, but I haven't tried the 4. I usually like a manual with a 4 cyl, but some people suggest the auto with either engine (actually I guess the 6 only came with the auto). Do you think I should avoid the 6? I drove a CRV today that was nice enough, but a big difference...still very interested in the Saab though.

 

[Jason_Els]

The 6 did have some problems in the beginning with cracked cylinder heads but I believe that problem has been relieved. The Saab turbo 4 is remarkably smooth. I had one in my 9000 with a 4-speed automatic. It was docile around town and happily zoomed off the line when I wanted. You have to watch the manuals in Saabs. The transmission is in the bottom of the engine which means if it (not counting the clutch) needs service you have to have the engine pulled out and the bottom taken out to access the gearing. The automatics do not have this problem. If you've never driven the Saab turbo 4 don't let the number of cylinders dictate your choice of transmission. It's big for a 4 and the turbo changes everything. It's a better engine than the 6 by far.

I know a Saab master mechanic (is that a surprise?) and his words were so true:


I HIGHLY recommend talking to the guys on TSN, The Saab Network. My information may be out of date given my 9000 was a '92. It's an invaluable tool for any question regarding Saabs. There is tons of technical information on all the models and Scott, the admin, is very cool.

I have to admit I do love my Forester. It goes up and down my driveway, it handles well, and it's ungodly fast. Subaru is the only car other than Saab I considered and had Saab made an AWD car I would have looked at them. Happily my Saab dealer also sells Subaru so it was an easy switch. Subarus do have that individuality I love so much and their flat 6-cylinder engine is smoother than butter melting on teflon (drove one for a week transporting it for my brother-in-law). Having been a Saab enthusiast, I was happy with Subaru as they have turbo 4s in their line-up and my Forester's drivetrain reminds me very much of my Saab.

 

[Cees Alons]

In Sweden, Saab (pronounce: "Sob", with a slightly musical and longer protracted ô) is the 2nd manufacturer, next to the all-present Volvo.

Saab started as, and still is, a (military) aeroplane manufacturer. One of their current other brands is a highly respected and formidable truck company in Europe (Saab-Scania).

They were the first to use wind-tunnel tests to create their (then: new brand of) private cars. They still do. They were also the first to adapt the turbo engine (blown engine) for private cars. They have been known for a long time for the emphasis in their designs on safety.

Their newest automatic is a beauty (to me), because there's an elegant switch on the wheel to switch it off and have a manual gear.

I have a question to you Americans: where is the ignition slot in a Saab located in US cars?
In the European cars that's a very specific feature (almost): it's between the front chairs, next to the gear handle, and the key will come out only if the gear is in reverse. For would-be thieves this is almost impossible to sabotage, but many reviews start with a bitter remark about that ("In vain I reached for the ignition with my key"....).
Once you're used to it, it feels like a very natural place, though. It certainly belongs to the 90% genius part.


Cees