UHD UHD Early Adopters/Buyers and Format Experiences (1 Viewer)

[Robert Harris]

Actually, I wasn't talking about Michel's post, but some prior ones from others. I understood his humor.

I knew you were educated, Robert. It says so in your dossier...

 

[Robert Harris]

More add'l comment, to be clear.

With the correct combination of hardware and software, 4k home theater can be an extremely rewarding, visceral experience.

Combine that with height channels, and rewards increase exponentially.

 

[Peter Apruzzese]

I appreciate all the information in this thread. I wasn't certain 4k would be for me and it's not...yet. I don't have a TV other than a projection system so I'll need 4k to come down into my price range in a few years (need to continue paying tuition for someone to finish high-level mathematics first). And, of course, I'll upgrade to Atmos/DTS X at the same time. As long as they keep the classics I'm interested in unmolested mit out HDR, I'm in as soon as the cost to entry for projection hits my range.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Has anybody here seen a movie in a Dolby Vision theater? Is the upgrade significant?

I saw Deadpool earlier in the year in a Dolby Vision theater and for me, there was no discernible difference between the movie as seen on that screen, and the trailers for it that I had previously seen on regular screens. I had really been looking forward to seeing something on that screen after hearing all the hype, and was a little disappointed that it just seemed like standard projection.

 

[bruceames]

Contrary to what someone in this thread posted about Warcraft, a respected site gave pretty good praise to the UHD BD (reviewed on the Sony 940C) Here's an excerpt on just the resolution aspect (this was sourced from a 2K DI).

In terms of resolution, the video comes with a perceptible uptick in clarity. The leaves of trees look a bit more distinct, and the stone buildings and leathered tents of orcs slightly more detailed. But more apparent are faces revealing pores, tiny wrinkles and negligible blemishes in the humans as well as in the animated orcs. Not only do all the characters come with amazing lifelike textures with sopping with beads of sweat, but individual hairs and the threading in clothing is extraordinarily sharper than its 1080p counterpart. Best of all, the minor banding noted in the Blu-ray is gone completely here, which is great advantage.

Normally this reviewer is very conservative in his praise so I look forward to watching it on my 940C when it arrives in a couple of days. People who think that extra detail is not possible from 2K DIs should take notice.

 

[RJ992]

I've been following Blu-ray sales figures, both players and discs, for many years and know how to interpret the data. I just took exception to your implication that I don't because you assume I don't know retail. You make a lot of assumptions and think you know a lot about UHD PQ, all without owning a player to see them on. I find that rather funny. I don't mind you posting here, although it does come across as trolling sometimes when all you do is bash a format with ridiculous hyperbole in a "uhd early adoptor and format experiences" thread. I mean come on, saying that "The Sony 6700 upconverts standard BD to the LG 65" HDR with quality that is indiscernable ( and sometimes superior to) 98% of UHDs" is a little far fetched. How do you come up with that 98% figure without being an owner?

I have a pretty good idea what the answers are to those questions, and have no problem whatsoever with it.

"Why isn't Disney on board?" I believe it's because they are waiting for Dolby Vision, as they are a big proponent of it. HDR goes especially well with animation and they waiting for HDR to be ready for prime time (meaning Dolby Vision on disc, or perhaps HDR10 dynamic, which would be just as good).

HDR10 static looks great on a high quality HDR TV (capable of meeting UHD Premium specs for HDR10), but unfortunately those are too pricey right now for the average owner ($2k+). The Dolby Vision TVs can be found for under $1k, but those TVs will clip HDR10 highlights as they have a much lower peak brightness and need Dolby Vision HDR for proper tone mapping to the capabilities of the display.

Disney I am sure will be on board by sometime next year, as that's when Dolby Vision discs and players are coming. They have said that they have no plans to come on board this year from day one, so there are no surprises and no disappointments that they haven't already.


"Why aren't there more 4k.DIs?" That one is easy: cost. There will be more as time goes on, but since the main upgraded component is not resolution, but rather the combination of HDR, WCG and 10 bit depth, it's not a big deal, especially on newer movies. Older movies it would be more important and even essential to have a 4K DI, as (hopefully) they won't be graded with HDR. Visually I think that perhaps 75% of the upgrade of the newer movies is not from resolution. Whether it has a 4K or 2K DI has no impact on whether I buy it or not. The remaining components of the upgrade are plenty enough for me.

"why isn't Movie X getting a Uhd release?" Again, not all new releases are automatically going to come to UHD. It was the same with Blu-ray. Lots of lower tier movies were passed over in the first few years (although most eventually were released later as catalog movies). Only the movies that did well at the box office or otherwise would be good candidates for a UHD release will make it out "day and date". As the format grows then the quantity of releases will increase. But I don't think this format will be releasing a lot of catalog, it's mostly going to be new release. HDR is the star of this show and only the newer movies can take advantage of that.

Okay...one final; post...

If what you say is true re: sales, then you know that $700,000 is not $700,000 sales.

I decided not to get a player because I had seen plenty of movies (from start to finish) in the format...thought I made that clear. As well as uncountable segments of other films (saw 20 mins of WARCRAFT UHD today...you can believe the main reviews...including a take from the always-reliable Ralph Potts. I found the properly-calibrated BD to be appreciably superior to the UHD. Go with the 3D if you have the option.) and even some side-by-side comparisons. I found it to be the most unimpressive so -called "upgrade" I've ever seen (and that goes back to the VHS/BETA/S-VHS days). So no...I saw no reason to drop money on hardware and discs that offer so little. The 4K TVs, however, are a different story. They are the true technological triumphs, not UHD and players. These sets are capable of 8K and 4096x2160 3D. And the extent that these new sets improve standard BDs (especially if the movies received new 4K transfers) makes UHD even more ludicrous. Are there exceptions? Sure. I pretty much agree with all that Robert Harris noted (especially re: screen size).. But just browse some other threads...not everyone is enthralled with this format. I'll wait for something better and put the money saved towards something of better value...maybe video, maybe audio...but it won't be this.

As for your "answers"...those are assumptions/speculation, not answers. BTW, I was also told earlier today that CIVIL WAR 3D disc sales were something approaching 30% market share. THOSE are the kind of numbers studios like to hear. I have NOT seen the numbers myself yet (snail mail on those) but I have no reason to doubt.) Be interesting to see how STAR WARS 3D does when that's released.

At any rate, good luck to you all. Enjoy whatever your preferred option is..

 

[Michel_Hafner]

I saw Deadpool earlier in the year in a Dolby Vision theater and for me, there was no discernible difference between the movie as seen on that screen, and the trailers for it that I had previously seen on regular screens. I had really been looking forward to seeing something on that screen after hearing all the hype, and was a little disappointed that it just seemed like standard projection.

Not my experience when watching the latest Mission Impossible in Dolby Vision in a Dolby Vision cinema. A lot better than a regular DLP screening. The presence of real blacks was obvious. HDR is limited since all projectors are not bright enough, but Dolby Vision projectors are still twice as bright as a regular good screening.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Not my experience when watching the latest Mission Impossible in Dolby Vision in a Dolby Vision cinema. A lot better than a regular DLP screening. The presence of real blacks was obvious. HDR is limited since all projectors are not bright enough, but Dolby Vision projectors are still twice as bright as a regular good screening.

I'm not opposed to seeing something in Dolby Vision again. For me personally, 3D is a bigger priority, and at the moment, only The Jungle Book has been released theatrically in 3D Dolby Vision. I won't opt to see a 2D DV presentation when a 3D option is available elsewhere. But I would and will give it another shot next time there's a 2D-only release playing there (or if they're showing another 3D title in 3D).

 

[Bryan^H]

"why isn't Movie X getting a Uhd release?" Again, not all new releases are automatically going to come to UHD. It was the same with Blu-ray. Lots of lower tier movies were passed over in the first few years (although most eventually were released later as catalog movies). Only the movies that did well at the box office or otherwise would be good candidates for a UHD release will make it out "day and date". As the format grows then the quantity of releases will increase. But I don't think this format will be releasing a lot of catalog, it's mostly going to be new release. HDR is the star of this show and only the newer movies can take advantage of that.

Actually only about 5% of new releases make it to UHD BD currently.
I'm letting an awful lot of standard BD's pass me by in hopes of UHD down the line.

 

[bruceames]

Actually only about 5% of new releases make it to UHD BD currently.
I'm letting an awful lot of standard BD's pass me by in hopes of UHD down the line.

That's how it was with Blu-ray too, regarding new theatrical releases, although the rate is a little higher than 5% I would think (among titles with measurable box office receipts). They can only release what the market will bear.

 

[DavidMiller]

Actually only about 5% of new releases make it to UHD BD currently.
I'm letting an awful lot of standard BD's pass me by in hopes of UHD down the line.

This makes since UHD and Blu-ray are on the same path far as number of releases in the first year. I hope much like Blu-ray we see a higher number of releases next year.

 

[Michel_Hafner]

The 4K TVs, however, are a different story. They are the true technological triumphs, not UHD and players. These sets are capable of 8K and 4096x2160 3D. And the extent that these new sets improve standard BDs (especially if the movies received new 4K transfers) makes UHD even more ludicrous.

Your rant makes little to no sense to me. The 4K TVs don't improve Blu Rays. Blu Rays are what they are. The only way to actually take advantage of the 4K in a 4K TV is a 4K source, e.g. UHD discs with real UHD resolution or at least full 1080p which a Blu Ray can not deliver. Period. That has nothing to do with individual UHD discs being mastered badly or not. The technology is awesome but in its early days. HDR is not mature yet but will be in time. I'm extremely glad the format is here. There is nothing ludicrous about UHD as a format!

 

[Robert Harris]

Your rant makes little to no sense to me. The 4K TVs don't improve Blu Rays. Blu Rays are what they are. The only way to actually take advantage of the 4K in a 4K TV is a 4K source, e.g. UHD discs with real UHD resolution or at least full 1080p which a Blu Ray can not deliver. Period. That has nothing to do with individual UHD discs being mastered badly or not. The technology is awesome but in its early days. HDR is not mature yet but will be in time. I'm extremely glad the format is here. There is nothing ludicrous about UHD as a format!

We have both smoke, and mirrors, on sale this week...

Sony's extraordinary process, which does not work on their projectors, is reported by them, to take a specialy encoded, standard def Blu-ray, and make it UHD.

It's so simple, even a child can do it.*

Purchase a new Sony HD disc that has been mastered in 4k, before being down-rezzed to HD.

Pop it into any UHD player.

Output the signal to a Sony 4k monitor.

Push the special digital button on the monitor...

And you're looking at at the original 4k presentation.

Need UHD discs?

Never.

* and so can girls...

 

[Michel_Hafner]

Push the special digital button on the monitor...
And you're looking at at the original 4k presentation.

And the physics nobel prize of 2021 goes to... Sony! For showing a way around the sampling theorem and invalidating parts of information theory thought to be mathematically proven to be correct when they were not! Way to go, Sony!

 

[bruceames]

Your rant makes little to no sense to me. The 4K TVs don't improve Blu Rays. Blu Rays are what they are. The only way to actually take advantage of the 4K in a 4K TV is a 4K source, e.g. UHD discs with real UHD resolution or at least full 1080p which a Blu Ray can not deliver. Period. That has nothing to do with individual UHD discs being mastered badly or not. The technology is awesome but in its early days. HDR is not mature yet but will be in time. I'm extremely glad the format is here. There is nothing ludicrous about UHD as a format!

I really don't understand this format war banter by some when there is no format war. Why are they against having an updated format to match the capabilities of the TVs being sold today? Like you I am just thankful that the format actually did come out, and (so far) without any of that internet authentication stuff. Just as important, it will extend the life of disc, which we all here want to see thrive. To have disc specs end with Blu-ray, while digital goes UHD, would really accelerate the decline and that would be sad indeed.

 

[DavidMiller]

I really don't understand this format war banter by some when there is no format war.

I agree.... Another interesting article

http://www.indiewire.com/2016/09/hd...technicolor-survey-cinematography-1201730723/

 

[Peter Apruzzese]

I agree.... Another interesting article

http://www.indiewire.com/2016/09/hd...technicolor-survey-cinematography-1201730723/

Thanks, very interesting. And it ends with this:

However, since many viewers of high-quality movies and episodic programming will experience premium content for the first time on tablets, PCs and smartphones, the next step is to see how HDR will be incorporated into the broader ecosystem of artistic expression across all platforms and emerging immersive mediums.

 

[bruceames]

Another sign that UHD BD is doing well (better than expected).

Sonopress has now shipped over one million Ultra HD Blu-rays.
http://www.4kevolution.de/2016/09/4...-aufwind-sonopress-knackt-die-millionenmarke/

Google translated from German

That we break through the one million mark after just a few months, we would not even have dared to hope at the beginning of the year. As one of the pioneers in this new segment Sonopress is successful go. We not only produce for the European markets, but have also provided a number of titles in the North American media market. - Sonopress CEO Sven German man[/quoted]

 

[MikeTV]

The 4K TVs, however, are a different story. They are the true technological triumphs, not UHD and players. These sets are capable of 8K and 4096x2160 3D. .

4K TVs are not capable of 8K. 1080p TVs are not capable of 4K. Standard definition TVs are not capable of HD.

UNBELIEVABLE!

 

[RJ992]

4K TVs are not capable of 8K. 1080p TVs are not capable of 4K. Standard definition TVs are not capable of HD.

UNBELIEVABLE!

Love that you try to reference 1080p and SD to support your belief that no 4K TVs have 8K capabilities. That's ok...I expect that. You won't find it in any owners manual, but in the service manual for 2 high-end Sony 4k sets (and sorry but I did not write down the model numbers...at the time, never thought I'd be trying to prove something regarding it, I don't think that way, as black & white stats were clear to me.) it indicated 7620X4380 along with the other resolutions. You have every right to believe what you wish so I see no point is discussing it further. You can pooh-pooh it all you like as service manuals MUST be wrong. You can feel free to order the service manuals yourself from Sony for their high end sets. Any disputes you should probably take up with the mfgrs