Twilight Time indicates they will re-license some sold-out titles. BREAKING! (1 Viewer)

[Robert Crawford]

Yeah, TT is just keeping us informed by adding "Limited Edition" on the cover, that's all. No reason to "HURRY!!!", right?

This "Limited Edition" thing is business for TT (break-even points etc), but it's also one very important marketing tool. You have to justify the higher price point and the fact that you can't get these titles from e.g. Amazon.com. How do you do it?

1) The film. For some people this is enough. Quality film on BD, perhaps for the first time.
2) Extras. Are there any extras? How about some exclusive extras (produced by TT)?
3) Limited edition model. You know that you've something special (at least among the certain niche group of collectors) when the title goes OOP. Even "collector's item". And you can perhaps make a bit of money later on if you want to sell it.

I believe TT can remove nr. 2 (based on the various comments from TT fans), but I don't think they can remove nr. 3. People want to have something that's "limited". Limited Edition sells more than regular release, since some people feel that they have to buy the item right away - and there are no "sales" coming in the near future.

After what Amazon pulled on Warner, a small company like TT wouldn't stand a chance with Amazon and will be out of this business.

 

[Rob_Ray]

Yeah, TT is just keeping us informed by adding "Limited Edition" on the cover, that's all. No reason to "HURRY!!!", right?

This "Limited Edition" thing is business for TT (break-even points etc), but it's also one very important marketing tool. You have to justify the higher price point and the fact that you can't get these titles from e.g. Amazon.com. How do you do it?

1) The film. For some people this is enough. Quality film on BD, perhaps for the first time.
2) Extras. Are there any extras? How about some exclusive extras (produced by TT)?
3) Limited edition model. You know that you've something special (at least among the certain niche group of collectors) when the title goes OOP. Even "collector's item". And you can perhaps make a bit of money later on if you want to sell it.

I believe TT can remove nr. 2 (based on the various comments from TT fans), but I don't think they can remove nr. 3. People want to have something that's "limited". Limited Edition sells more than regular release, since some people feel that they have to buy the item right away - and there are no "sales" coming in the near future.

John's right in post #53 above. They're labeled as limited editions because they are. If you want them bad enough, you better not procrastinate, because when they're gone, they're gone. At least for the length of the license agreement anyway.

As far as the other two points noted above: 1) It's more than just the film itself. It's also the exceptional quality. Twilight Time has made it known that certain titles were rejected because the transfers did not meet their standards. And when their transfers did not meet customers' standards (non-anamorphic Violent Saturday DVD), Twilight Time listened and vowed never again. In fact, a new transfer of Violent Saturday is being reissued on bluray. This policy, in and of itself, warrants a higher price point. You pay more because you are guaranteed a higher quality product with no guesswork.

2) For me, every Twilight Time release comes with extras that make them highly collectible -- namely isolated score tracks and, most especially, full color pamphlets on high quality paper stock with insightful, entertaining essays by Julie Kirgo. These inserts are an important part of what I miss from the old laserdisc box sets of yore and getting them here makes these releases very special to me and not just another disc to go on the shelf.

 

[Keith Cobby]

The extras are nice to have but at this stage of the format I am happy to just get the film in as good a state as possible. I look at the insert but have not and probably will never listen to the isolated score.

 

[Jari K]

"certain titles were rejected because the transfers did not meet their standards..."Perhaps we shouldn't go down to this road again? We both know that there are several companies - both the big studios and companies like TT - that release quality.So no, you don't have to pay $30 to get quality BD releases. But you have to pay $30 if you want to get certain titles that are only available on BD from TT. I say it again: Remove the "Limited Edition" angle from TT and they would be like any other company releasing quality titles. They're just licensing transfers from the bigger studios - so far they've actually "remastered" 0 titles. The real work is done elsewhere.

 

[Keith Cobby]

I suspect that many blu-ray titles released by other distributors sell fewer copies than TT, but because TT have a maximum number it injects some urgency into the decision making process. They are 'limited editions' and if other studios (I am thinking Warners here) adopted a similar model we might see more of the deep catalogue titles we want released. At least with TT you can't wait until they are for sale at $5. I have always thought that blu-ray should be a premium product and this is what TT deliver.

 

[Robert Crawford]

"certain titles were rejected because the transfers did not meet their standards..."Perhaps we shouldn't go down to this road again? We both know that there are several companies - both the big studios and companies like TT - that release quality.So no, you don't have to pay $30 to get quality BD releases. But you have to pay $30 if you want to get certain titles that are only available on BD from TT.I say it again: Remove the "Limited Edition" angle from TT and they would be like any other company releasing quality titles. They're just licensing transfers from the bigger studios - so far they've actually "remastered" 0 titles. The real work is done elsewhere.

I understand you don't like TT's business model, but you keep brow-beating the same points, over and over again. We understand the fact you don't like how they do business as it pertains to their price point and you're right, they're just like any other company releasing quality titles.

 

[Moe Dickstein]

Plus TT's prices are NOT higher than other companies, you just don't get discounts.

 

[Jari K]

"Because TT have a maximum number it injects some urgency into the decision making process."Whether we like it or not, this is true. That's part of the LE business model.I mean there are many many MANY releases that I would want from various studios, but I can't get all of them. So I wait, pick some from the sales, pick some later on in full price, perhaps pick up some other release from some other country later on, etc. And quite frankly that's the way I like it. I want to be "in charge" and with TT's business model I'm not totally in charge.

 

[Jari K]

"Plus TT's prices are NOT higher than other companies, you just don't get discounts."I don't fully understand this comment. What you actually pay is what matters. I just got several Criterion titles from B&N for around 20$/each. And it still felt a bit expensive!

 

[Moe Dickstein]

Yes but CRITERION's price for the item is $40 - BARNES AND NOBLE's price when it's on sale is $20That's the difference.

 

[Rob_Ray]

I mean there are many many MANY releases that I would want from various studios, but I can't get all of them. So I wait, pick some from the sales, pick some later on in full price, perhaps pick up some other release from some other country later on, etc. And quite frankly that's the way I like it. I want to be "in charge" and with TT's business model I'm not totally in charge.

I don't fully understand this comment. If you want "Radio Days" at $29.95, plus tax and shipping from Twilight Time, you buy it. If you don't, you don't. You're in control at all times.

 

[ROclockCK]

I mean there are many many MANY releases that I would want from various studios, but I can't get all of them. So I wait, pick some from the sales, pick some later on in full price, perhaps pick up some other release from some other country later on, etc. And quite frankly that's the way I like it. I want to be "in charge" and with TT's business model I'm not totally in charge.

...which is the crux of it, I think. That passage reads like you're just cheezed that you can't wait out this label until a point when you know they can't possibly be making any money...and then scoop up premium collector product for pennies on the dollar, feeling victorious...i.e. "in charge."

But thankfully, it's not about "you" Jari K. For the health of any market, specifically catalogue video, we also need the "studios" and "packagers" earning a reasonable return on their investment...otherwise, they simply won't bother to offer the product at all. "Enjoy your streaming."

 

[FoxyMulder]

You're in control at all times.

We're movie fans, we are not in control of ourselves when we put our credit card details in and buy our favourite films, irrational thoughts take over, we must have it, we must, before you know it the card is piled high with debt. but we must have it.

 

[Moe Dickstein]

I'd say you're MORE in control with TT - you know the price is the price so you buy it or not - with other companies who knows when the discount will happen or how much so you're very much out of control, what if you buy it too soon and it goes down more and then you paid too much.with TT it's simple - if the film is worth that price to you, you get it. With other companies I buy it when the price is right to what I'm willing to pay for that title. If it goes down more, oh well, I still paid what I thought it was worth then I'm never dis-satisfied. That's why I wait for BN sales for most Criterions, but there are a few that I'll get and pay more for because having them sooner is worth paying a premium for.It's an individual choice but with TT you know where you stand. I feel like in the end Jari you're just bitter that they aren't cheaper and that's your whole problem in a nutshell.

 

[Jari K]

The point was that I actually would like to have e.g. Radio Days. But not right now (it's not that high on my current list) and not in that price. But if I wait, it can sell out. Most titles from the other companies don't really sell out (they can go OOP though if the company is losing the license).But you're right. Actually I'm in charge. I don't run to order some title just because "Hurry!!!". .And Moe, "bitter"? C'mon, that was a bit lame. I've said my major point already, but let me say it again: I can live with one - or even two - "TTs". But if the whole BD business goes to the same "limited/expensive/no retail" route, we're fu**ed.

 

[Eric Vedowski]

Buying TT titles is the only time I pay full retail. Of course I wish they were cheaper but I admire what they're doing and I know I won't get burned quality wise.

 

[David Weicker]

I've heard it said that TT rejects titles because of quality. But I'm reasonably sure that isn't the only reason. Licensing fees are as much an issue as quality. Based on their price structure, TT can't accept a title that licenses out for more than 60k (probably closer to 50k).I've come up with these numbers based on various statements from TT and simple math. The maximum revenue from any title is just under 90k ($29.95 x 3000). The break-even point is 2000 (60k). The majority of that is probably license fees, with some portion going to supplies, manufacturing, salaries, etc.So if a studio wants more than 50k-60k, it will probably be rejected, regardless of quality.

 

[Twilight Time]

David, you are 100% incorrect.

 

[Persianimmortal]

To sum it up in three simple dot points:

- The Limited Edition aspect is simply an economic stipulation, due to a combination of up-front licensing costs and expected sales, not because TT is trying to manipulate the market with some sort of artificial scarcity.

- TT only retains the NA distribution rights for three years, so any title that sells out is only going to be out of print in the US, not overseas, and only for three years at the most.

- In 10-15 years' time a plastic disc with a 1080p transfer of a movie is going to be next to worthless given 4K movies with several times the bitrate will probably be standard. The same way "limited edition" VHS copies of any movie are now essentially obsolete. These are not heirlooms that you will be leaving to your grandkids, so forget any notions of long-term collectibility. Buy and enjoy them in the here and now.


If you want to know where your money is going when you buy a TT title, it's in the quality of the release itself. I can actually breathe a sigh of relief each time I find out that TT has got the rights to a movie I like because I know that unlike certain other boutique providers, they actually have a sense of pride in their output and won't release anything that's shoddy. That alone is worth a premium price.

 

[AnthonyClarke]

Since it's most unlikely I'll be here in 10 to 15 years, I think Persianimmortal is totally correct ... enjoy them now!