Twilight Time Announces Releases Sept/Oct/Nov, 2013 (1 Viewer)

[FoxyMulder]

That's fine if one wants to save some money(and most of us certainly like doing that...) but....TT is run by film lovers who truly enjoy what they are doing. For every 'Oliver!' which will probably sell out they release such titles as a Bite the Bullet or Desiree which will sit on the shelf for years to come. I really don't understand the 'public' outcry I've been reading concerning their releases and prices. I shake my head every time I read that someone wishes they fail or won't purchase a title because they disagree with their business model.

I wanted to buy Christine, it sold out, the business model of 3000 limited copies is quite annoying, i feel the same way about Disney putting their classic animation back in the vaults for many years, it's not a money thing for me, it's the fact that sometimes these things sell out and then where do you buy them from, i'd love to see a different business model, one where if a title sells out it's 3000 allocation they do some more of the title on a per customer order basis.

 

[Paul Rossen]

I wanted to buy Christine, it sold out, the business model of 3000 limited copies is quite annoying, i feel the same way about Disney putting their classic animation back in the vaults for many years, it's not a money thing for me, it's the fact that sometimes these things sell out and then where do you buy them from, i'd love to see a different business model, one where if a title sells out it's 3000 allocation they do some more of the title on a per customer order basis.

I 'hear' your 'pain but as a long time collector of soundtracks I'm used to the limited copy business model. Some of the soundtrack specialty labels are now slowly moving away from that model and are either repressing additional copies or not 'limiting their license to 3000 copies. It would not surprise me if TT did a re release of Christine or any title that quickly sold out...

 

[Professor Echo]

I would rather spend my money elsewhere, it's as simple as that. I own one TT title and should the occasion warrant and factors fall into place, perhaps I will buy another at some point, but given the choice of an alternate outlet, I will probably take that instead. This decision is a personal one and I'm not rallying anyone to make the same one nor criticizing anyone who doesn't.

 

[David Weicker]

I 'hear' your 'pain but as a long time collector of soundtracks I'm used to the limited copy business model. Some of the soundtrack specialty labels are now slowly moving away from that model and are either repressing additional copies or not 'limiting their license to 3000 copies. It would not surprise me if TT did a re release of Christine or any title that quickly sold out...

Except the business model they 'chose' prohibits them from doing a re-release. That is why some of us don't feel it is the best model. And they haven't publicly indicated any desire to change their model.

As for them being film-lovers, personally that might be true, but as their responses to the upset consumers over Night Of The Living Dead, Fright Night, and Christine indicated, it is a business to them, pure and simple.

Now I have bought several titles from them, I expect to purchase more titles from them. But IF I have a choice, they aren't my first choice

 

[Paul Rossen]

Except the business model they 'chose' prohibits them from doing a re-release. That is why some of us don't feel it is the best model. And they haven't publicly indicated any desire to change their model.

As for them being film-lovers, personally that might be true, but as their responses to the upset consumers over Night Of The Living Dead, Fright Night, and Christine indicated, it is a business to them, pure and simple.

Now I have bought several titles from them, I expect to purchase more titles from them. But IF I have a choice, they aren't my first choice

Fair enough...

 

[Persianimmortal]

But IF I have a choice, they aren't my first choice

Which is fine. I doubt anyone here suggests that you absolutely MUST buy from TT. But let's keep things in perspective: for many titles, there is no other choice, and in the absence of TT, there would likely be no BD at all. So let's at least be grateful that TT provides an alternative, even if it's not one you would choose unless you had to.

As for the repeated arguments over their business model, in each and every TT thread, from now until the end of time... well I'm quite sure that people like Twilight Time's Nick Redman know more about the home entertainment industry than most of us do. You may not agree with their business model because of self-interest, but it's another thing altogether to keep implying that they're making some sort of major business mistake. They've chosen a model that both works for them, and also serves serious movie fans. The key point is that it needs to do both, not just what consumers want.

 

[David Weicker]

Which is fine. I doubt anyone here suggests that you absolutely MUST buy from TT. But let's keep things in perspective: for many titles, there is no other choice, and in the absence of TT, there would likely be no BD at all. So let's at least be grateful that TT provides an alternative, even if it's not one you would choose unless you had to.

As for the repeated arguments over their business model, in each and every TT thread, from now until the end of time... well I'm quite sure that people like Twilight Time's Nick Redman know more about the home entertainment industry than most of us do. You may not agree with their business model because of self-interest, but it's another thing altogether to keep implying that they're making some sort of major business mistake. They've chosen a model that both works for them, and also serves serious movie fans. The key point is that it needs to do both, not just what consumers want.

That may be true, but then again, after two years they've stayed the course. And yet with some tweaking, perhaps it could be changed so that is served them better.

For example, with Christine, it is obvious there was unmet demand. And anyone with any economics knowledge can tell you that unmet demand is a clear business opportunity.

A normal business re-evaluates itself. It looks what what it is doing right, and where things can be improved.For example, with some altering of their agreements, they could build in certain conditions where a second pressing (of the same or perhaps a smaller quantity) would be allowed. Say, if a title sells out in a given time-span, especially if it sells out prior to release date. The publishing business has been doing this for years - First printing, Second printing, etc.

Since the bulk of the expense is up front, when it comes to media, additional pressings don't substantially add to the cost. And if all the additional sales are prior to release, physically it could even be part of the same press run.

 

[ROclockCK]

In the late 80s there was this upstart, boutique video label - they started in VHS but quickly abandoned that dead end - choosing to focus instead on the niche Laserdisc market's thirst for vintage movies - mostly the classics - finally presented uncut in their original aspect ratio with the highest quality PQ and AQ specs the technology of the day could deliver.

This company's CLV line of LDs was no frills whatsoever, and yet priced at least $20 to $25 (or more) than any other major studio release. If that wasn't enough sticker shock, their CAVs went right through the roof, with prices starting substantially over a $100 bucks! For a single movie? Do they think we're daft? And yet committed movie fans and collectors, as well as budding home theatre enthusiasts in fact welcomed this label's commitment to releasing these lost-in-the-vault movie treasures afforded uncommon respect for the source, including thoughtfully written, often scholarly backstory essays. Pricey regardless which LD format you happened to choose, but it was understood that niche product in low runs always equals higher manufacturing and distribution costs per unit, and it's much better to have than have not. These discs cost what they cost so that this company would remain solvent long enough to release more. And since only the largest retailers in the largest cities even carried these premium titles, that evil (and expensive) beast 'mail order' became pretty much the norm.

Nevertheless, this label managed to survive and thrive just fine without the endorsement or patronage of all those mainstream Joes and Janes who didn't think any OLD MOVIE was worth more than a VHS rental, or an extended play recording off TV on the cheapest possible tape. Thankfully, this label never drove themselves nuts trying to either appeal to or appease those folks who would never appreciate the value of what they were doing anyway, much less become loyal customers. So they just followed their own piper with release after release targeted at the small but dedicated body of fans and collectors who were simply grateful this stuff was finally getting out there, respectfully presented, with a dependable level of quality. Even better, this company remained solvent enough to release more...and more...and more. Today, they are among the few blue chip standards for home video production.

Of course, we didn't have the WWW back then, but if it had been as ubiquitous as it is now, I often wonder what the rote party line would have been concerning the business model of...uhm...what was that company's masthead again...oh yeah, The Criterion Collection.

 

[Persianimmortal]

That may be true, but then again, after two years they've stayed the course. And yet with some tweaking, perhaps it could be changed so that is served them better.

For example, with Christine, it is obvious there was unmet demand. And anyone with any economics knowledge can tell you that unmet demand is a clear business opportunity.

A normal business re-evaluates itself. It looks what what it is doing right, and where things can be improved.

For example, with some altering of their agreements, they could build in certain conditions where a second pressing (of the same or perhaps a smaller quantity) would be allowed. Say, if a title sells out in a given time-span, especially if it sells out prior to release date. The publishing business has been doing this for years - First printing, Second printing, etc.

Since the bulk of the expense is up front, when it comes to media, additional pressings don't substantially add to the cost. And if all the additional sales are prior to release, physically it could even be part of the same press run.

These are all assumptions that you are making without the full facts. None of us except Fox and TT have the full facts. As I understand it, their model is entirely interconnected - pull one link out of the chain and it all collapses.

That is, from what we know, the licensing agreement requires upfront payment for a limited number of copies (3,000). This is why Fox has apparently agreed to license to TT in the first place, and it makes it a headache-free deal with no risk to Fox. But because of the substantial upfront investment, TT then needs to recoup their investment by demanding a premium price, and by making sure that customers purchase sooner rather than later. This means that they can't allow price drops (discounting), because people will then just wait for the discounts; nor can they have a second run of copies, because aside from the licensing agreement, once again, the potential for more copies undermines the limited edition nature of the release, which undermines its premium price, and again, means customers will wait rather than purchase as soon as possible. Let's not forget that TT only has the exclusive US license for 3 years, and many of their titles will struggle to sell out in that period, despite being paid for up-front by TT.

So even my rather limited knowledge of the facts reveals that the model can only work to be profitable if all of the factors are preserved. Once you allow room for additional copies, lower prices, or both, the model collapses.

But the strongest argument for the viability of the model would surely come from TT's own actions. Don't you think, given the popular demand for titles such as Fright Night and Christine, that TT would love to print and sell more if it could? Surely they would reexamine and revise their model if they thought it more profitable, without the need for any of us to prompt them. Who knows, maybe they'll come up with different licensing arrangements for future titles, or perhaps split off and create a mainstream brand for their more mainstream releases. But for now, I'd wager they're more on the ball with regards to how things work than many of their critics.

 

[JoHud]

Personally, Twilight Time is my first choice when it comes to deciding whether or not to import overseas. I like the booklets they include with each release and I don't mind spending a few extra dollars, plus I have a soft spot for supporting indie distributors. The European discs are a good alternative if I'm ever in a spot in which a TT disc sells out, or if an overseas disc happens to be superior. In the latter situation, Violent Saturday is exceptional in that the French disc is much preferable and there is no certainty that TT will ever re-release their DVDs on blu-ray.

Seems like every thread relating to this company seems to end up turning into a debate on the pros and cons of the company's business model. Thankfully, this one's led to some interesting posts.

 

[cineMANIAC]

I don't have any interesting to say but I would like to ask, where the heck is the official announcement and artwork reveal for THE DRIVER??? Isn't it supposed to street next month?

 

[Keith Cobby]

For those of you who dislike the TT business model the answer is obvious. Set up your own distribution company, attempt to negotiate with the studios and then sell your product to the rest of us as cheaply as possible.

 

[haineshisway]

Personally, Twilight Time is my first choice when it comes to deciding whether or not to import overseas. I like the booklets they include with each release and I don't mind spending a few extra dollars, plus I have a soft spot for supporting indie distributors. The European discs are a good alternative if I'm ever in a spot in which a TT disc sells out, or if an overseas disc happens to be superior. In the latter situation, Violent Saturday is exceptional in that the French disc is much preferable and there is no certainty that TT will ever re-release their DVDs on blu-ray.

Seems like every thread relating to this company seems to end up turning into a debate on the pros and cons of the company's business model. Thankfully, this one's led to some interesting posts.

It's been said about four times already, Violent Saturday is coming to Blu-ray via Twilight Time

 

[haineshisway]

I would rather spend my money elsewhere, it's as simple as that. I own one TT title and should the occasion warrant and factors fall into place, perhaps I will buy another at some point, but given the choice of an alternate outlet, I will probably take that instead. This decision is a personal one and I'm not rallying anyone to make the same one nor criticizing anyone who doesn't.

Should have responded to this yesterday, pre-edit. But nice editing

 

[Professor Echo]

Should have responded to this yesterday, pre-edit. But nice editing

Well, sometimes it takes a moment or two for what I am really trying to say to actually be translated into the what I'm really trying to say WORDS. Decades of writing fiction has spoiled me in always turning the right phrase, but real life doesn't always balance as such.

 

[Professor Echo]

For those of you who dislike the TT business model the answer is obvious. Set up your own distribution company, attempt to negotiate with the studios and then sell your product to the rest of us as cheaply as possible.

So unless we can do a better job every time ourselves, we should pledge unconditional, unqualified allegiance to something? Eliminate the concept of critics and criticism unless they practice every single endeavor personally and more successfully?

 

[Paul Penna]

Why should we bear or not bear "allegiance," qualified or otherwise, to some commercial entity? It's not a sports team, religion or political party. If a product and its price is to my liking, I buy it. If not, I don't.

 

[JoHud]

It's been said about four times already, Violent Saturday is coming to Blu-ray via Twilight Time

Sorry, must of somehow missed that. Thanks for correcting my mistake. Good news then as I'd prefer a R1 release.

Hopefully this means some more of the DVDs might be upgraded to blu-ray, particularly The Left Hand of God.

 

[haineshisway]

I believe it will always depend on the elements and what they take to an acceptable hi-def master.

 

[ROclockCK]

My Cousin in Rachel looked terrific even upscaled from DVD. So that title definitely has a leg up if TT ever decides to take it to Blu-ray.

Very Good movie too. Olivia de Havilland walks a fine, fine line all the way through.