Twilight Time announces Blu-ray releases March-June 2013

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Ronald Epstein, Feb 1, 2013.

  1. Jack P

    Jack P Producer

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    The only problem though, and what unfortunately keeps this thing ongoing is that I have simply heard no credible explanation as to why Sony can on the one hand agree to do a restoration" of the compromised cut but somehow it's beyond their capacity to create a master of the extended cut with the original score. And now a further excuse is that those of us who simply want this for our *home* viewing experience must be denied it beacuse this isn't how its presented theatrically now. That would seem to imply that if Sony had been asked to provide the seamless branching offer during the whole delay period as opposed to going back and doing a restoration job on the other viersion of the film that is no longer satisfactory from a viewing standpoint, they could have easily done it but for the fact that Mr. Redman and company clearly do not like the idea of letting others see the extended cut with the original score.
     
  2. haineshisway

    haineshisway Producer

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    What seems to be keeping this "thing" ongoing is you. You've made the same point in how many posts now? Seriously :) And Sony nor anyone else owes you any "credible" explanation for anything. What is or is not beyond their capacity is not known by you and frankly it's their business - they make those decisions and not you. They own the film. They own both cuts. For "purists" - well, a purist would not want to watch the extended cut because it was not done by Mr. Peckinpah - it is its own thing, whatever one thinks of it. For "purists" the theatrical cut with its original score is being offered here. Again, what Sony could have "easily" done or not done is their business - you have no idea what their decisions are based on, but the decisions reside with them and they owe no one any explanation about anything. Whatever Mr. Redman prefers or doesn't prefer, he is not running Sony and had they wanted to include a version of the extended cut with the Amfitheatrof they would have. They didn't. That's kind of the end of the story, isn't it? Is there really a need to have another three pages of posts about it? Nick has come here and explained - he didn't have to. Thank him for doing so, and I'd say it's time to move on. Just my two centimes.
     
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  3. Jack P

    Jack P Producer

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    Mr. Redman chose to make another post saying something that invited comment, and I chose to exercise that right which is my perogative and any other poster's at this place. If his explanation remains unsatisfactory, as it did, then he's not going to get my thanks for it.
     
  4. Doctorossi

    Doctorossi Supporting Actor

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    His explanation was more than satisfactory. That you remain unsatisfied is another matter.
     
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  5. EddieLarkin

    EddieLarkin Supporting Actor

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    Ripping the hybrid score from the DVD, synching it up with the Extended cut on the Blu-ray and remuxing them together, though may sound technical and complicated, is actually a very simple thing to do. It's something that consumers shouldn't really have to be doing, agreed, but the option is there.
     
  6. Lromero1396

    Lromero1396 Supporting Actor

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    Thank you for clearing this up, Mr. Redman. I'm assuming that the extended cut doesn't contain the option for the original music due to rights issues. I'm very pleased with the original score's inclusion on the theatrical.
     
  7. Jack P

    Jack P Producer

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    That would be a wrong assumption based on everything Mr. Redman has said. Not once has it ever been suggested that to put the extended cut with the score composed originally for the 90% of the movie that is the extended cut would somehow be an issue of "rights" as opposed to convenience (remember-the extended cut with its original score already exists on home video)
     
  8. Reggie W

    Reggie W Cinematographer

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    Honestly, Jack, you are coming across as if you have some serious comprehension issues and your shots at Mr. Redman are uncalled for and unfounded.

    Is it possible you do not understand what has been communicated here?
    First, the studio that owns the film, not Mr. Redman or Twilight Time commissioned a new score for an extended cut of the film years ago. They did so because it was well known Mr. Peckinpah did not like the score that was used on the theatrical cut of the film and because when they chose to spend their time and their money on creating a new cut of the film that might better approximate what Sam Peckinpah might have preferred they also chose to spend time and money on a new score to replace the one Peckinpah never liked.

    Nobody can say for certain if Peckinpah would have liked this new score or extended cut but those with some knowledge of the situation feel he probably would have liked it more than the theatrical release. You can debate the choice to create the extended cut and the choice to create the new score and you can of course offer your own opinion as to if the added scenes and new music add or detract from your viewing experience.

    Mr. Redman has said as much in his comments here and has said that he felt it was important to have the original theatrical score remain part of any release of the film. Mr. Redman does not even seem to be disagreeing with your feelings but has politely attempted to explain the circumstances surrounding both the DVD release you keep referring to and this new blu-ray release.

    The facts are that there are two versions of Major Dundee. The first is the theatrical cut of the film which, as probably anybody reading this with an interest in the film knows, Peckinpah was not happy with and was cut down to a shorter running time against his wishes. Despite the fact that Peckinpah did not like it because it is the theatrical cut of the film that the studio released and people saw in theaters it really should be part of a blu-ray release of Major Dundee.

    This shorter version provides some context as to why Peckinpah was unhappy with the film and allows an audience today and audiences of the future to see what the studio did to the film he was attempting to create.

    The second version of the film created by adding footage back into the film in an effort to restore in some way what Peckinpah was working towards and done after his death and so without his input was made to try to allow an audience to see something closer to what Peckinpah would have wanted. Peckinpah would have wanted to ditch the score used in the theatrical cut and it is well known he said as much. So with that in mind a new score was created at the expense of the studio and the gentleman that created the new score. This is not a perfect situation, obviously, because the director was no longer with us but fans of his work and the curious probably greatly enjoy the opportunity to see the film in a form that probably would have been more to Sam's liking. I can say that I am very happy that they went to the trouble and expense of creating this second version.

    These two versions of the film, one created and released theatrically while Sam was alive that he was unhappy with and the second created after his death to attempt something he may have found closer to what he wanted, are the only two versions that really matter.

    The dvd that allowed you to watch the extended version of the film with the score that Peckinpah did not like still exists and only exists because when they were creating the dvd they did not expect to release the theatrical cut of the film and felt that it would be a shame to lose the original soundtrack...so as a compromise to keep it from being lost to the mists of time they stuck it on the dvd as a special feature.

    At the time of the dvd release I could see as a valid complaint that along with the new extended cut of the film they should have included the original theatrical release of the film...that would be preserving the history of the film and would have value. Releasing only this new extended cut would basically be ignoring the history of the film and also would give no context for people to judge what it was about the theatrical cut Peckinpah did not like.

    What Twilight Time and Sony did was rectify this situation by presenting on blu-ray both the theatrical cut and the Peckinpah "inspired" extended cut. This now allows us to see the theatrical release intact and judge it against what was done in the creation of the extended cut.

    The "third" way that you prefer to enjoy the film...running the original score with the extended cut using that feature from the dvd...could only be called a "fan boy" version because it neither represents what Peckinpah might have preferred nor what the studio chose to release. It serves no purpose in the history of the film and it exists on dvd only because nobody ever expected the theatrical release would see the light of day in a home format and so they threw it on as a special feature to preserve the music.

    You can enjoy that version on dvd whenever you wish but there seems little reason to include it on the blu-ray extended cut of the film.
     
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  9. Jack P

    Jack P Producer

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    My last post was a neutral one to correct a misassumption madei n the previous one about legal rights and was not reopening the earlier matter. Those who have been so quick to condemn me for having made too many posts on this topic would be advised to in the interests of consistency instruct Reggie to "give it a rest" and not dredge up a post I made days ago for the sake of prolonging the matter. That is the real thing that is uncalled for. I could make a long post of my own to the specifics of each of these points to demonstrate why there is a legitimate reason to not regard Mr. Redman's explanations as satisfactory but I have no desire to do so. (Except to say that I have never cared one whit about whether a cut of the film would have been more to Sam Peckinpah's liking because I blame him entirely for why the film was less than it should have been, thanks to his refusal to write a coherent second half of the script).

    My only final comment is that I stand by everything I have said regarding my feelings on this subject with not a single apology and with gratitude that I have $35 more in my wallet to spend on something else, which is my perogative since I intend to continue watching "Major Dundee" with a more coherent narrative and with the music that was part of the original production history, which is my view of what *all* films should have regardless of whether or not a longer cut is ever created for them.

    Now that I'm "giving it a rest" let's see if my critics are man enough to do the same.
     
  10. Doug Bull

    Doug Bull Advanced Member

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    Great thoughtful and intelligent reply Reggie.

    Without Mr.Redmond and Twilight Time would we have seen "Major Dundee" in any form at all?

    I for one can't wait to get my copy.
    Here's hoping the disc is a complete sell-out.

    ps. As a Movie Score enthusiast since the early fifties I've always thought highly of Daniele Amfithreatrof, so I'll be more than happy to watch the original theatrical cut and on Blu-ray no less. ;)

    Doug.
     
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  11. Lromero1396

    Lromero1396 Supporting Actor

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  12. Will Krupp

    Will Krupp Screenwriter

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    SOOOOOOOO..............

    Wonder what cut the AT LONG LAST LOVE blu-ray will contain.......
     
  13. Reggie W

    Reggie W Cinematographer

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    Oh well, not at all my intention to upset anybody and so I will say no more on Major Dundee.

    I am looking forward to seeing At Long Last Love too...I've never seen it.

    For whatever it is worth I thought The Fury was a fantastic release and figured it would sell out as fast or faster than Christine...I think The Fury is a far better film than Christine and one I would have thought horror fans would want. Copies seem to still be available so I would order it now if you have any interest. De Palma films on blu are well worth picking up...well, in my opinion anyway.
     
  14. Robin9

    Robin9 Cinematographer

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    I watched the Twilight Time BRD of Hard Times tonight. In a word: superb. I thought, and still think, the original DVD was good but this BRD is in a different class. If, like me, you think Hard Times is an absolute gem of a movie, don't hesitate. Get your money out and buy this BRD. You won't be sorry. You'll have made a sound investment.
     
  15. ROclockCK

    ROclockCK Screenwriter
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    My unexpected pleasure tonight was The Only Game in Town! I say "unexpected" because of the woe begotten rep that precedes this picture...although reading back through this thread I do see others who have had kind...or at least fair...things to say about it. For sure, some creative and production missteps were unavoidable, but I certainly enjoyed spending a couple of hours with these characters. I thought it was a good movie. So sue me! :P

    Even more "unexpected" was the transfer. While I realize that this film has had little wear and tear over the years - for most of its life consigned to the vault and all but ignored - the quality of this Blu-ray master was a little startling just the same. With so many low lit interiors and exteriors I wasn't expecting it to look quite so snappy. Whodathunk?

    So here's my silly little toast to basically good movies surviving undeservedly horrible reps... .
     

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