TV vs Projector (1 Viewer)

[smithb]

I've never had a need to mess with the focus or zoom once setup so I haven't missed power functions for these. However, if one is going with a constant height setup with a 2.35 aspect screen then I can see where it would be a very nice feature to have (mine is a 1.78 screen). Also, the panasonic comes with multiple zoom memories which is also beneficial to a 2.35 setup (not sure about the other pj's).

 

Going with a 2.35 aspect screen is worth checking into with some of the features of current projectors. By the time I get my next one they may have it all figured out to remove any remaining hassles in doing so.

 

[GPJ111]

So when you say I am getting reamed on wiring cost... just want to make sure we talking apple to apples... and its quite possible we are. Are just refering only to the wire charge, I assume you're not based on the comment I could pay for a projector without it.

 

So here is my deal. I'm not a DIY guy, sadly to say. I admire the guys that have the time and know what their doing. I'm short on both. I do however have a builder that is doing the basement and has told me they would run the wire and hang the speakers, and I'm sure they could do the projector and screen. However I want this done right the first time, and I want to know its done right.

 

Here is the value I have using the media company. I basically want one guy that is responsible for everything, not only to make sure everything is properly installed and in the event something goes wrong.
 

Now, if you're telling me they are simply over charging or gauging that is different from saving by doing it myself.
 

Curious to see what you think. Do you have an estimate of what a proffesional install would charge by the hour.

 

[Phil Taylor]

 

Originally Posted by GPJ111

So when you say I am getting reamed on wiring cost... just want to make sure we talking apple to apples... and its quite possible we are. Are just refering only to the wire charge, I assume you're not based on the comment I could pay for a projector without it.

 

So here is my deal. I'm not a DIY guy, sadly to say. I admire the guys that have the time and know what their doing. I'm short on both. I do however have a builder that is doing the basement and has told me they would run the wire and hang the speakers, and I'm sure they could do the projector and screen. However I want this done right the first time, and I want to know its done right.

 

Here is the value I have using the media company. I basically want one guy that is responsible for everything, not only to make sure everything is properly installed and in the event something goes wrong.
 

Now, if you're telling me they are simply over charging or gauging that is different from saving by doing it myself.
 

Curious to see what you think. Do you have an estimate of what a proffesional install would charge by the hour.

 

Those labor charges are fairly typical for custom installers/AV boutiques = pricey ... just was saying that if you could do it yourself you would save a bundle. I'm a consultant/installer and wouldn't charge anywhere near that much but I am a sole proprietorship, work from my home office so I don't have a lot of overhead (like a big company does). I also like to treat my clients as I would like to be treated -- so I only charge $40/hr for misc install labor = about half of the area AV houses and boutiques. Going labor rate around here (Oklahoma City) is from $60-120/hr depending on the company. Pre-wiring framed rooms (retrofits are a LOT harder) would only be about a half-day and installing a projector, screen, components and speakers would be about a day's work. YMMV.... and again - just my humble opinion....
 

 

[GPJ111]

Appreciate it. All the posts have been very helpful. Thank you.

 

[GPJ111]

BTY- I'm embarrassed to ask... YMMV?

 

[Phil Taylor]

Originally Posted by GPJ111 depending upon your location and your installer.

 

[bigshot]

I paid $75/hr and it was quite fair, because they saved me a bundle on equipment and didn't charge for any prep work.

 

[GPJ111]

I am getting 95/hr. I priced out the components individually they have included, I can't seem to find them online anywhere for the price they are charging.

 

[Al.Anderson]

 

 

I priced out the components individually they have included, I can't seem to find them online anywhere for the price they are charging.

 

You mean the wire? Sure you can. I didn't look very hard, and here's a better deal on the 14/2: http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Wire-Cable/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xgyZbm7v/R-100001123/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

 

I'm not an expert (I've never used an installer), but I think the installation is high also. Installing speaker cabling and the speakers in new/raw framing is the easiest task you have. Harder is the projector mounts and final calibration. Also, the quote doesn't include the more expensive video and component interconnect cables.

 

[GPJ111]

Thanks again.

 

If you guys can bare with me... I am going to use a couple analogies for my next question around screens..to see if I have my head on straight.

 

 

Any input on if the average viewer would notice the difference b/w a $800 or $2500 screen. Since you don't have two screens side by side would the average viewing experience be that much dimished. To me I think of it like this... can most people tell between a $10 bottle of wine vs $30 bottle if they aren't side by side. Maybe, maybe not.

 

That leads me to my next question. In skiing the rule of thumb is you invest in the boots not the skiis. The thought behind that is, if your feet aren't comfortable it doesn't matter what kind of skiis you have. Would you apply that same rule to the screen? If the screen is horrible, it doesn't really matter what kind of projector you use?

 

I may have confused myself.... net of it is... do you put money into the screen or not? Thanks.

 

[smithb]

 

Originally Posted by GPJ111

Thanks again.

 

If you guys can bare with me... I am going to use a couple analogies for my next question around screens..to see if I have my head on straight.

 

 

Any input on if the average viewer would notice the difference b/w a $800 or $2500 screen. Since you don't have two screens side by side would the average viewing experience be that much dimished. To me I think of it like this... can most people tell between a $10 bottle of wine vs $30 bottle if they aren't side by side. Maybe, maybe not.

 

That leads me to my next question. In skiing the rule of thumb is you invest in the boots not the skiis. The thought behind that is, if your feet aren't comfortable it doesn't matter what kind of skiis you have. Would you apply that same rule to the screen? If the screen is horrible, it doesn't really matter what kind of projector you use?

 

I may have confused myself.... net of it is... do you put money into the screen or not? Thanks.

I can provide my own perspective. There are certain ratio's that I think help out in scenario's like this when trying to get the most value from the "whole" based on a collection of components. Not everyone will agree on the ratio's but it can still be a good starting point. For example, how much will a $3000 receiver/amp improve upon a $500 set of speakers. Probably not enough to warrant the extra cost. Just like a $300 receiver would probably have issues driving a $7000 set of speakers. Not absolutes but likely results.

 

So with screens, there are many satisfied with just painting a section of wall to project on to. I might consider this with a

 

[GPJ111]

Thanks for the breakdown... that was extremely helpful.

 

[bigshot]

My theory is that you only want to go through this once. You can do upgrades as you go, but you'll end up paying for it in the end. Buy equipment that is a little better than you need and use it until it wears out.

 

[GPJ111]

Sorry... I was refering to the hardware, not wires....

 

[smithb]

Here is my take from an investment standpoint on the individual components:

 

- Receiver/Amp: You have a decent set of speakers so you will want an adequate source to power them. Power is something you can buy once and keep for some time, while surround capabilities fluctuate as new technologies emerge. So I would buy a 3 channel amp to power the front speakers and a midrange receiver with the bells and whistles to power the surround speakers. This way it is easier to upgrade the receiver over time while keeping the same amp. This is a mistake I made where I bought a top-end receiver and had less flexibility when HD audio became availlable (had to go with a BR player with built-in decoding and multi-channel outs).

 

- Speakers: Good speakers will last a while so getting a quality set can be a decent investment.

 

- Screen: No reason a screen can't last a long time. Make sure to get one large enough so that you will be impressed with it a long tiime. I would have gone larger then a 92" if I had thought more about HD back in 2003. At the same time realize what you watch. I don't think I would go beyond about 110" screen because I watch a lot of older lessor video quality material. If you are primarily about HD material then you can go quite large.

 

DVD/BR Players: Get a decent one representative of the rest of your equipment. No need to have it be the weak link. But at the same time these are probably one of the cheaper components. A few $100 can go along way here. Also, if you want the flexibility of watching material from other regions due to quality or availability make sure you can make it region free. And it's okay to have more then one if your space allows (hard to find one that fits all scenarios well).

 

Battery Backup/Surge Supression: No need to go crazy here either but it is good to have some protection. As I mentioned earlier a battery backup to give time for a projector bulb to cool can save money on expensive bulbs in the long run.

 

Projector: Here I would get just what is needed and no more. This is the most fluidly changing component in your setup. As an example, I paid $6800 for a DLP projector that retailed for $10,000 in 2003. What I considered the best I could afford. Five years later due to changing technologies it was worth no more then $1000. Add in a bad color wheel that would cost $500 to fix and I had little left from my investment. Go ahead an plan for the possibility of upgrading the projector in 5 years time and pick one with that in mind.

 

Cables: Largely marked up. Buy on-line from any of many highly rated value/cost vendors. Stay away from monster and BestBuy or other boutique cables. It is not that they are bad but just wayyyy over priced.

 

[SoundDoc]

Here's the primary thing with screens, you want a diffuse reflection of light back at you in a small setting. This gives you a brighter appearing image without hot spots. So, look for a screen with a gain of around 1. to 1.3. Screen Innovations makes an excellent screen. So to StudioTek and Stewart. You may wish to install a screen that drops down from the ceiling rather than a fixed screen. It will cost you a little more, but then you may be able to place a 60" Mitsubishi RPHDTV behind it. That way for on the order of $4000 you can have a screen for the projector capable of showing movies ultimately in 2.34/1 as well as 1.78/1 (16/9) for movies and then have the much brighter picture for normal TV watching. And, the Mitsubishi is already 3D capable while 3D for projectors is a way off.
 

 

As to cabling, make sure than any HDMI cables you install in your system is high speed to be able to handle profile 1.4 as it develops, otherwise I agree, wire is wire, particularly for runs to speakers if you are using 14 ga for these distances.

 

[bigshot]

I've found no correlation between price and quality with DVD and bluray players. Expensive ones can be flakey and cheap ones work perfectly.

The speakers make the sound and the projector makes the picture. Choose carefully there.

 

[GPJ111]

Assuming the company I am working with will work with me a bit I am close to deciding on the following:

 

Integra 30.2 Sound Receiver

JVC DLA-HD550

M4300 Panamax Surge Protector

CCM 664 B&W Loud Speakers

SNDQ100HFHG3EZX STEWART 49X87 SCREENWALL

T2-BL Rel 200 Subwoofer

 

Thanks again for all the input. As a novice here, it was very helpful to get access to this knowledge base.

 

[GPJ111]

Bty Bigshot... much of justifying the selection was backed up by your theory ( which I share)... buy a bit ahead and run it into the ground....