Transformers BD 09/02/08 (1 Viewer)

[Jeff Adkins]

The HD-DVD release was 28GB, but I think you're right that the bandwidth was more of a problem than the capacity.

 

[Jesse Blacklow]

I doubt it. They would have had to drop the quality of the video as well, since HD DVD had a much lower max bitrate.

 

[Jeff Cooper]

OK, I'm a little confused on the bitrate issue. If the problem is related to the maximum bitrate, and disc space is not the issue, wouldn't this be a problem with every single HD-DVD release ever made that has lossless audio? How did all those other fantastic looking and sounding HD-DVDs work?

I'm genuinely curious here, not trying to be a fanboy or anything.

 

[Zack Gibbs]

They simply had lower bitrates for the video. The more movement/detail you have in your picture, the higher the bitrate needs to be to compensate.

 

[Jeff Adkins]

I'm not sure if disc space was an issue or not. With 2GB free, that's cutting it pretty close. With an average video bit rate of 20.54 and 3 DD+ tracks at 1.5mb/s, it probably wasn't doable to add an additional lossless audio track without the video quality suffering considering the 144 minute runtime.

 

[Todd smith]

I personaly thought the DD+ track on Transformers was atleast on par with ANY lossless track (or any track for that matter) I have listened to on BR or HD-DVD. This soundtrack is insanely good, especialy in the LFE department Definate reference material in my book.

 

[Dave Moritz]

While the mixing on this title is very good, I would not say the audio can compete with its lossless counterparts. I know some here will not agree but this is my opinion, Dolby Digital Plus is a minor improvement over Dolby Digital. As there are both lossy and I do not hear much of an improvement with DD+ and it seems its the only other difference beyond DD+ being 7.1. Is a slight audio improvement over Dolby Digital so I would much rather double dip on Transformers for a better audio track. I have many lossless audio tracks on HD-DVD and Blu-ray and I would rather have lossless over DD+ anyday. So to wrap this up I would say that the DD+ track is good but not great.

 

[Ron-P]

I had Transformers on HD-DVD and now have it on SD-DVD (I sold off all HD-DVD). I can agree 100% with Dave's comments above. The DD+ is an improvement over the DD on the SD-DVD but it's not huge.

These lossless tracks are so night and day different (better) over anything DD+ has to offfer, it's amazing. The TrueHD / UPCM tracks on this forth coming Blu-ray release should kick the DD+ track to the curb.

 

[Jeff Adkins]

I have some MP3s at VBR LAME 3.97 encoding that sound terrific. Hearing some of them, you'd swear that they couldn't sound any better. However, if you compare one to the same track on SACD it's night and day.

The true verdict will come when we can actually compare the TrueHD and DD+ tracks.

 

[Todd smith]

Night and day is a big exag IMO. I bet in a double blind test you guys would not be able to tell the dif from the DD+ at 1.5 from the TrueHD This track is on par with any lossless track I have heard on BR or HD-DVD. I think a LOT of this is mental once you get beyond 1.5mbps which is what a double blind test would show no doubt

Funny thing is 2 of my top 3 overall favorite next gen audio tracks on BR and HD-DVD both use DD+ one being Transformers and the other King Kong. Also Hot Fuzz is reference audio as well. Dont kid yourselves

 

[Todd smith]

Check out all the "reference" audio reviews this DD+ track got as apparently I was not hearing things the 2 times I got blown away in my HT listening to this

HDDb - Transformers High Definition Reviews

 

[Jesse Blacklow]

Why are you telling someone that has compared the DD track on the DVD and the DD+ track on the HD DVD that they can't tell much difference, when they just told you they obviously can discern lossless tracks? There's virtually no evidence that nobody could make that distinction, and plenty that points to obvious differences.

 

[SDRANGER619]

Awesome stuff. I've been waiting for this release for a while.

 

[Todd smith]

Because I think it is VERY mental as far as the dif they think they are hearing at this level (1.5mbps and higher). Like I said, in a double blind test I would be willing to bet the vast majority of listeners would not be able to tell the dif between 1.5 DD+ and PCM/TrueHD

This track is reference and as good as any lossless track I have listened to overall on either BR or HD-DVD and these reviewers heard the same thing If the TrueHD track on the BR does somehow sound "better", it will certainly only be a very slight real world dif at best as the DD+ on the HD-DVD is reference allready as far as HD-DVD/BR audio is concerned lossless or not.


Also, check out some of FilmMixers posts on AVS forum. This guy mixes HD-DVD/BR tracks for a living and has talked many times about how 1.5mbps or higher is indistinguishable from the master audio track He plans on using the Transformers TrueHD and the HD-DVD DD+ in a doubleblind test and is extremely confident nobody will be able to tell which is which, and from my limited testing with other movies, once volume matched, etc....I would agree

 

[Douglas Monce]

When Dolby was first working on DD, they did some tests with general listening audiences with standard DD at 320 kbps, the rate that they use on 35mm film. They found that only about 10 to 15% of their test listeners could tell the difference between the DD track and the original master. This doesn't mean that some people couldn't tell the difference, and I imagine that many of those who can gravitate toward high end audio equipment and the desire for lossless audio. For 90% of the general audience however, the difference will be lost on them.

Doug

 

[Todd smith]

Good point, and this is at 320 kbps. At 1.5 that ~10% will be MUCH smaller.

 

[Douglas Monce]

I suspect this maybe the case.

I know that I can tell a difference between the DD+ and DD true HD tracks on Batman Begins, but I really have to sit there and A/B them back and forth. If someone just started the movie, I doubt I would know which one I was listening too.

Doug

 

[Todd smith]

That does not realy surprise me as the DD+ track on Batman Begins (Warner) is encoded at 640

 

[Douglas Monce]

Any idea what the bitrate of the True HD track on that title is?

Doug

 

[Todd smith]

Almost positive the TrueHD on Batman Begins is 16 bit which would put it at ~1.5.