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TRANSFORMERS arrives on Earth in spectacular DVD and HD DVD sets (1 Viewer)

Paul Hillenbrand

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This IS the Home Theater Forum the last time I looked!

Audiophiles and Videophiles made this their home long before HD DVD or Blu-ray fanboys came here to plant their "IT's GOOD ENOUGH" FUD.

Paul
 

Bleddyn Williams

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No - YOU give ME a break. If you read the quotes, its obvious that FilmMixer is using "just good enough" ironically to make his point that few will ever be able to tell the difference between lossless and a 1.5 DD+ encode.

And the HTF has been my home for 9 years. I'm not a fanboy just because I'm not taking up arms for your lossless crusade. Lighten up for Pete's sake.
 

Quentin

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That might sound like a good quote to you...but, to me, it sounds like a lot of fuss over nothing...and, someone who isn't listening to the experts.

If an expert says there is no discernible difference in the sound master from one codec to the other, it just doesn't matter! If the experts listened to TRANSFORMERS and looked at the specs and said, "we can do this with lossy and it won't sound a shred less perfect than lossless" and they decided to do lossy, I'm aboard. They know more than we do, and they typically fight for the better sound codec when necessary.
 

Quentin

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For all those saying, "I want lossless!", I ask this...

Why?

I think the answer will clearly be a resounding, "because it's the best posslible audio presentation!" To which I ask...

How do you know?

Because you've read that it is so? I don't think any complainers here have listened to the TRANSFORMERS master...correct me if I'm wrong. This whole debate is based upon an ASSUMPTION that lossless is the best. Period.

But, I have read posts from sound mix professionals, and I have a friend who works on DVD transfers. All of them say the same thing - lossless is great, but it doesn't always present a discernibly superior presentation. Period.

So, instead of saying, "I want lossless!" You should be saying, "I want the best sound presentation I can hear!"

There is a HIGH percentage chance that is what you're getting on this disc.

Lossless is just another technology. Despite what you've read or think...it's not perfect. It's not the ONLY option for the best sound.
 

RobertR

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I don't think Paramount cares if it's a "best" argument. If it sells well because only a few would consider it a big difference, they would consider that more than sufficient.


By the way, is there anyone here who has experience mixing films (ie has actually listened to the masters and compared them to DD+ in the mixing studio) and can contradict what FilmMixer says?
 

Chuck Mayer

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Look, I want lossless. I think the point being made is that lossless is a word now, and it doesn't mean anything different than DD+ lossy, except as the word. I like it for peace of mind. I'd prefer it.

Right now, it's being thrown around as something a bit more than it actually is, simply because of the bad blood between formats. Like RobertR said, is there actual experience that shows the expert on the other site is incorrect? I'd like to hear if there is. There is also quite a bit of speculation of whether the 30GB space of HD is preventing it. Considering how many movies of the same length carry TrueHD, I think that argument is simply sour grapes and mudslinging. Unless someone can provide a legit reason why TF has harder video to encode that Batman Begins.

As for the release...I'll probably get it as a showcase. It's not a film I greatly liked. But Kong has an exceptional DD+ track (and an hour more length), so I'll expect a great audio track here.

It's a lot of sturm and drang for what amounts to personal opinions.
 

Paul Hillenbrand

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FimMixer didn't listen to the original Transformers track and didn't compare it to a lossy or lossless track. And you say I should listen to him and that "it's good enough"?:confused:
 

DavidJ

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Oh, I can contradict what he says. Wait...no...I just saw the "and." :)

Seriously, I am a bit disappointed that there is not a TrueHD track, but FilmMixer's comments do make you think. If he is being genuine, and having read his posts over the last couple of years, I don't see any reason to think he is not, then it really shouldn't be an issue. I am planning on buying it and I bet any disappointment I have with it will be less about the presentation and more about some of the choices the filmmakers made.

While not an expert to the degree that FilmMaker appears to be, I work with audio, study it and teach courses on it. One thing you have to remember is that alot of advances and improvements have become more about marketing or about preserving fidelity in the sound chain rather than things that directly improve the sound for the end user. As good as our ears and equipment may be, there are differences that we are just not capable of hearing.
 

RobertR

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I think you're misinterpreting FilmMixer's comments. He is not saying that there is no difference on 9 out of 10 films. He's saying that if he does a blind comparison on any given film, he'd get it right only one out of 10 times. Statistically, that means there is no difference. You'd get half right out of sheer guesswork.
 

Tim Glover

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Brett are you going to buy this HD DVD? Do you even have a HD DVD player? If you do and choose not to purchase this then I respect that. If you are solely in the BD camp, then really, why all the posts. Would you get this title if it was offered on Blu-ray?

I know it's hard to resist posting stuff to flame and I would be disappointed if it were only offered on Blu-ray....but all stuff like this does is just create tension and stirs the pot. It's unnecessary.
 

Phil Iturralde

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I have more confident to FilmMixer's "IT's GOOD ENOUGH" comment, ... than your (& other's) 'it's not TrueHD" rants and, ... I'll just concentrate on ...

1) watching the Autobot's transforming in 'slow-mo', ... and

2) check out the -- TRANSFORMERS H.U.D. (Heads Up Display)--access running text-based behind-the-scenes background information on the production during the feature ... picture-in-picture b-roll and video with Bay, Spielberg and other filmmakers during select sequences

... once I get my exclusive HD DVD copy on Oct. 16, 2007!!!
htf_images_smilies_rock.gif


Oh yeah, ... I'm sure that it's going to sound GREAT ... especially after hearing the dynamic seamless surround DD+ soundtracks in "Serenity", "King Kong", "Dreamgirls", ... Paramount's "Sahara" and "MI:3" @ -10 dBc below REF LEVEL!!!
htf_images_smilies_drum.gif


Phil
 

Paul Hillenbrand

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:confused: No contradiction.

Quoting FilmMixer in the same post:
"It's fine for us to fight for the best every day, and I've met more fighters in the studio system than anywhere else."
 

RobertR

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Since he's stated that 1.5 Mbps DD+ is indistinguishable from "the best", how does that quote make your point?
 

Phil Iturralde

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So what part of ...

..."lossy vs. lossless version ... sound the same ... comes out of the speakers is the same?" ...

... don't you understand?

Phil
 

Paul Hillenbrand

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Quoting FilmMixer: "It's fine for us to fight for the best every day, and I've met more fighters in the studio system than anywhere else.";)
 

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