To All HTF Members: The "HD-DVD ONE FORMAT ONLY!" campaign begins...with YOUR help! (1 Viewer)

[Dan Hitchman]

Terrell,
The majority of master multichannel tracks today are created using either high resolution 24 bit PCM or (in some instances) Sony/Philip's Direct Stream Digital (DSD) format. DTS and Dolby Digital are only audio compression algorithms for packing these types of uncompressed masters into smaller files (although you lose necessary audio information with these formats, hence the term "lossy compression"), and not the best out there at that if you want high resolution sound.
For right now, yes you would need DD or DTS tracks included for all the equipment that only support those formats, however a mandatory audiophile track like what I proposed above needs to be the wave of the future for audio not lossy compressed formats.
HD-DVD is a means to move beyond DTS and Dolby Digital. I'm all for that.
Dan
P.S. My site sports the logo too.

 

[oscar_merkx]

either today or tomorrow my own website will go live and the banner will be up as well.
cheers

 

[Dan Hitchman]

I just read over the specs. for the Toshiba/NEC proposal and I don't think it has enough data space for better than or as good as D-VHS tape (which has 50+ GB storage), and certainly not enough for uncompressed or lossless compressed audio tracks.

Blue Ray can go beyond 50 GB of data storage on dual layered discs.

I don't know why holographic discs aren't being considered and the technology perfected. Talk about data storage then! There'd be very little need for much compression of the audio or video streams at all!

Dan

 

[Sean Aaron]

Personally I think any Digital Rights Management that will no-doubt be built into any future digital media format and the potential restrictions said DRM will impose on use is more important than what colour laser is used to read said media. It will probably determine whether or not I support any future digital media (plus the fact that I'm pretty well satisfied with CD and DVD and don't feel the need to move to anything else -- doubly so if the studios are going to let their piracy paranoia dictate home viewing options in the future).

Anyone have any information on implementation of these potential formats or has that information been made public yet?

 

[Joseph Bolus]

I just read over the specs. for the Toshiba/NEC proposal and I don't think it has enough data space for better than or as good as D-VHS tape (which has 50+ GB storage), and certainly not enough for uncompressed or lossless compressed audio tracks.

This is true. However, it does provide a quantum leap in storage space over the current DVD standard, which should translate into a much higher available bandwidth with less compression. Plus, it retains total backward compatibility with today's DVDs.

Will it provide the bandwith characteristics of D-VHS? No; it will not. However, it should be close enough such that the difference should not be all that discernible on current technology HDTV monitors and projectors. This, of course, would depend on what kind of compression technology is mated to the proposed hardware; but the potential is certainly there.

It's certainly miles ahead of the "Ruby Red/MPEG-4" proposal from the Warner-led group.

 

[derek]

My question is market timing. Honestly...I don't think we need HD-DVD next year (ala Toshiba/NEC.) Standard DVD is satisfying a great majority of both home theater enthusiasts and the general public. We have D-VHS for the very high end group now. Like it or not we need joe six pack eventually behind the format (much like the success of DVD now.) Standard DVD still has 3-5 years left in it's life cycle...at least. By that time hopefully a third to half of consumers will have HDTV capable display devices...and the HD-DVD format can be rolled out with success. Give them a few more years of development and come up with a format that DOES equal or surpass DVHS bandwidth; capable of supporting a next generation of higher bandwidth Dolby/DTS/uncompressed soundtracks and is recordable.

 

[Frederick_Falk]

>> Seen stepping on soapbox > seen stepping off of soapbox

 

[John Berggren]

Whatver I need to do to support this, I will. I want HD-DVD sooner rather than later, but I want to have it done RIGHT, and I want it to be as unified as DVD was upon it's introduction (ingnoring DivX).

I too beleive that a blue laser medium is imperitive. Higher compression is BAD idea.

 

[Thik Nongyow]

As a potential customer for HD-DVD, I have questions:

1. Even if the Toshiba proposal is adopted, are there assurances that HD-DVD would be a successful format? If it is poorly marketed, it may become the next Betamax.

2. What about the blue laser technology? If an HD-DVD player is in the market, will the blue laser factor much into its price?

3. What about the costs of the discs? Would they be affordable to most consumers?

4. Are there assurances that prices of HD-DVD players will fall quickly as do DVD players if they become popular?

5. Is having one HD-DVD standard a monopoly and anti-competitive? Should customers decide what "standard" they prefer by having several competing standards in the market, instead of the electronics industry?

6. Lastly, even if the Toshiba proposal succeeds, will it be a revolution in home video?

 

[Dan Smith]

Greetings,
Here is a list of the important features the HD-DVD format should have for this one customer:

• If there is to be a SUCCESSFUL HD-DVD format it HAS to be BACKWARD COMPATIBLE. We have all invested many thousands of dollars in DVDs. Most of us probably have more invested in DVDs than in our entire system. I am not willing to discard all of my current DVDs simply to purchase them all again, and especially if there is MORE THAN ONE HD FORMAT. With a backward compatible HD system, I would purchase ALL new titles in HD and slowly but surely replace ALL of my standard DVDs for HD.
• There is NO point in producing a supposed High Definition DVD format by increasing the compression ratio, that is completely against what HIGH FIDELITY is all about and why we are here discussing an improved format. Lets not even get into going back to the early 1980’s and using a red laser?!?!?! Future people, we must look to the future not 20 years ago.
• Conclusion: I WILL NOT support ANY HD-DVD format if there is MORE THAN ONE. Just as I am doing with DVD-A and SACD. Just to prove it to you, last week I bought a $3400 CD player, not a DVD-A or SACD player... a plain old reliable CD player. If there was ONLY ONE high definition audio format, I would not have even hesitated to spend the big bucks and jump into DVD-A or SACD. BUT, who in their right mind would spend $3400 on a format that has a 50% chance of disappearing (66% chance in the case of HD-DVD if they release all 3 formats). Think about that!!!
• The TOSHIBA blue laser, backward compatible, recordable format GETS MY VOTE hands down.

 

[Eric F]

6. Lastly, even if the Toshiba proposal succeeds, will it be a revolution in home video?

An HDTV in every home (with HDTV broadcasts by every network) capable of playing ANY high resolution format will be a "revolution in home video" regardless of the source.

 

[Dan Hitchman]

I still think that putting in backwards compatible layers in order to be playable in both machines IS A MISTAKE.

The HD-DVD player should be backwards compatible with today's DVD standard, NOT THE DISC ITSELF.

Here we talk about wanting the best possible audio and video on this next generation disc, and yet we bicker about DUMBING DOWN THE FORMAT already.

The entire bandwidth should be used for the best audio and video presentation technology can give us. That would be true 1080p (no filtering) and uncompressed or lossless compressed high resolution PCM or DSD (hopefully with more than just 6 channel discrete). A DTS or DD track for backwards compatibility with today's electronics. If there is room left over then they can add a few supplements.

We may not want this next format for Joe and Jane 6-Pack as we will be introducing the same problems as before:

1) Is DTS better than Dolby Digital and vice versa. (with a high rez. PCM or DSD track we don't have to worry).

2) Will OAR be the norm or will we continue to have to duke it out with the studios? (this should be mandated on any new video media)

3) Will they sacrifice audio and video performance for the sake of cramming a bunch of fluffy, back patting featurettes onto the same disc as the movie in order to entice buying? (the audio and video bandwidth should be set high first and then any remaining room can be used for a few supplements; all remaining extras go on other discs).

etc.

I'd say they should shoot for a bigger than LD niche (by increasing quality and keeping the price more reasonable), but a niche just the same since HDTV monitors have not penetrated very far into the mainstream. This one needs to be for film lovers and audio/video-philes.

Dan

 

[Sean Bryan]

I agree with Dan. It's a good idea to make the PLAYERS backward compatible with current standard DVDs. But putting both HD and standard versions of the movie on the same disc is a bad idea. It would be a waste of disc space.

Please, just let the new software be it's own thing and let the PLAYERS handle both.

 

[Rob Gardiner]

Looking through this thread, I see two mutually exclusive ideas presented in most of the posts
1. The studios should decide on one HD-DVD format
and
2. It had better be the blue one
If WB barrels ahead and releases red laser HD discs next year, they will point to us in order to pressure the other manufacturers to follow suit. If the red laser version comes out, I know I will be saying "bring on the blue" and I think many others will change their tune as well.
I would rather have all options available and let the best format win.
We all know the true winner of the format wars will be the one that brings the unaltered Star Wars trilogy to HD first.

 

[Todd Terwilliger]

I'm definitely in favor.

 

[Eric F]

I agree with Dan. It's a good idea to make the PLAYERS backward compatible with current standard DVDs. But putting both HD and standard versions of the movie on the same disc is a bad idea. It would be a waste of disc space.

Why would it be a waste of space if it helps the format get accepted faster? I think sacrificing a little bit of quality in the beginning would be an acceptable loss to the introduction of a new format.

When people see what the "improved" version of the movie they already own looks like on a HD-DVD player, I think they'ld be more willing to go out and invest in a new player.

After the format has a good foothold in the market the studios could then start introducing full HD-DVDs without the DVD track. It makes good sense. If this type of marketing didn't we would be seeing all these SE, Ultimate Ed, Superbit, variations.

Sure, I agree that for us folks who want the best quality available it's not the best solution, but if we want to ensure longevity of a format it has to be as compatible as possible and not make people see their current investment as "obsolete". New players and new software is just too much too soon. Alot of people still don't even own DVD players, and you saw what happened when a big studio backed D-VHS.

 

[Terrell]

Please, just let the new software be it's own thing and let the PLAYERS handle both.

The way I read it, that's their intention. I don't think they ever said they would put both a hi-def version and a standard definition version on the same disc. The way I read it is they would contain only the hi-def version, but the players would be able to play the thousands of current DVDs. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Jay Sylvester]

Ronald,

I'd be interested in building the site if a developer hasn't stepped forward yet. I'm primarily a ColdFusion and SQL/Access developer, but I'd be willing to put in some time to learn any ASP/PHP necessary in order to get the site done (assuming it needs to be a dynamic site in the first place). If dvdsite.org's servers aren't capable of supporting CF/ASP/PHP, I'd even be willing to host it.

I'll contact Bill Hunt when I get home from work.

 

[Brenton]

I have a question. Several people have noticed the Photoshopped image in my signature* and liked the idea, so I know that I'm not the only one that hopes there will be 2.35:1 widescreen TVs in the future. My question is, would it be possible for HD-DVDs to be mastered with the possibility of being shown anamorphically on a 2.35:1 TV (even if these wider TVs don't come along until years later)? Is it realistic to hope for a 2.35:1 TV?
The reason I believe TVs should be made that wide in the future is because finally, for once, it would be a TV that presents aspect ratios the way they are expressed (with the height being a static "1").
* for those with signatures disabled, it's right here

 

[Ed St. Clair]

Why would it be a waste of space if it helps the format get accepted faster?

Because of the greater chance you would already have a DVD version of the film.
What movie would they release on HD that would not have a DVD release?
P&S releases help DVD gain mass acceptance.
Low bit rate DD helped get more special features on single DVD's.
If these are acceptable marketing practices to you to gain market share, please don't "dumb down" HD.