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Titles of Flip Discs being test marketed... (1 Viewer)

Marc Colella

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Whether it's included in a DVD-A disc, on the Dual-DVD, or just as an added DVD-V in the package - people are very interested in the video aspect of music.
 

Michael St. Clair

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Because they are getting more content. The video and lossy surround content is a bigger reason than high-res for most consumers.

Did you even read my article?

And these discs are already selling as low as $12.98 in some stores. Competitive with regular CD, and makes $10 for a lossy-only stereo iTunes album with DRM limitations, no surround, and no packaging look like a waste of money, at least to me.
 

Will_B

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This is why I still haven't bought Sheryl Crow's The Globe Sessions on DVDA or SACD -- because I keep finding those old "DTS-CDs", or at least what I THINK are those old "DTS-CDs." Someone really needs to throw any leftover DTS-CDs into the trash bin so they stop confusing people.
 
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Yes, it has a short film "The Story Of Back In Black" as well as simple discography with thumbnails of the album covers that are hyperlinks to a larger image of the cover and the song titles. That's it.
Pretty sparse.
Some of the other titles are better featured.


Buzz
 

Phil A

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Will, I agree 100%. I think that the majority of people would be interested in the video content, depending on the price difference. I would not be at all. For the same price, it is a no-brainer. For more, I'd just get the CD. I'm only buying it for the music. Most people think CD prices are too high. If they are to do this, the maximum w/o too many groans they'll be able to get is current CD prices. I could be wrong, but I would bet it is the record cos. intent to get more for these discs than a std. CD and they may find themselves in worse shape and driving more people to download.
 

Phil A

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David, thanks for the article, it says very similar things as I said above. I certainly view the below excerpts as less than positive for hi-rez. It could be better suited for mass market acceptance if they lower the prices but will surely not be loved in the audiophiles. Per the Audio Revolution article:

"....
For example, because of the bonding process, the CD layer of the dual disc can now supposedly play only 60 minutes of content, as opposed to 74 minutes on a traditional red book CD. The DVD layer of the disc is what record industry technology geeks call a “DVD 5,” which is a single-layer DVD that is not capable of storing as much music and aftermarket goodies as a “DVD 9,” which is a dual disc DVD.
.....
Record industry execs guess that certain content decisions will need to be made on song edits to make long albums fit on the shorter CD side of the new flip disc. Tougher decisions will have to be made on the DVD 5 side of the disc, because if a disc is authored with 5.1 channels of 24/96 MLP surround sound (the best sound you can get, which can still only be played back on a DVD-Audio player), then other goodies will need to be left off or down-converted to lower resolutions. Possible compromises include omitting a lot of video clips or photo galleries. If space is really tight, 24/96 or 24/192 stereo tracks may be eliminated completely with the CD side being the only stereo version of the album.
.....
At these prices, the discs should come with a second disc because they still will struggle to complete with blockbuster feature films on DVD-Video that cost only a few dollars more
.....
it is hard to hold the sales numbers to very tough scrutiny, as you can go to a Best Buy and pick up the CD-only version of the album for as much as 40 percent less. If the new discs are to become popular with mainstream audiences, they need offer much more content and added values, as well as competitive pricing. During this test marketing, they got the pricing all wrong."
 

Rachael B

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After thinking about this and reading the links provided here, well, I'm peeved. I now see 3 new formats. Retailers can't be thrilled to be under pressure to stock yet another type/version of albums/groups.

The statement about prices going down is totally laughable too!:laugh: :rolleyes:We all remember when "they" said that about CD prices.

The antics of the music industry are getting old, even faster. I wonder what hideous, new copy-guard is planned for the DVD side? There must be a new secret plan??? 4 major, competing, predatory music formats is ascinine, plus the competition of DVD-V music, that's 5! It's bloody stupid!

This is bad idea jeans all over again....:thumbsdown:
 

Phil A

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So Rachael, I take it you're not planning on taking a long road trip to Boston over the weekend just to stock up on these discs:D
 

ElevSkyMovie

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I can't imagine that they would be able to release most dvd-audio albums with a high-rez stereo and surround track on a dvd-5. I would think dual layer (dvd-9) discs would be needed for almost every release.
 

Michael St. Clair

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Actually, a typical 45 to 50 minute album will fit on a DVD-5, and that is 24/192 stereo, 24/96 surround, and a lossy surround track.

But when you start adding videos and such, you will quickly find yourself reducing sampling rate or dropping the stereo track.

But, of course, tons of albums from the last 20 years were recorded in low and medium-resolution PCM, so you don't really need to go 24/192 for those.

Ultimately, this format could be a very good CD replacement format (the 60 minute limit affects a very small percentage of pop/rock discs), but not a great DVD-A replacement format. Largely because of the space limitation, in my opinion.

The other problem is Sony trying to do the absolute bare minimum with the format. If consumers pick up Sony discs first when checking out these discs, they won't see the potential value of the format.
 

Lee Scoggins

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That's my conclusion as well so far ;)

Now it appears that even putting DVDA content on one side has limitations. Maybe Sony agreed to support this due to its being crippled in terms of a hirez format substitute.

This would seem to further confuse the marketplace.

Does it strike any one as weird that we have to deal with space limitations in an age where HD-DVD and BluRay already greatly increase the space for content?

Why not wait a year and roll out a Dual Disc with the new hi-def DVD format?
 

Michael St. Clair

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If this takes off, I don't think it will be an additional format, I think it will replace music CD.

But, of course, that would be in the long run.

Am I predicting success? Hard to say at this point.

And even if it does take off, there is the possibility that the focus will shift entirely away from high-res.

But releasing a disc with nothing on the DVD side but a 16/48 stereo mix and a short documentary? Sony, you can do better than that.
 

Rachael B

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Obviously, Sony is worried that the new double disc might be successful. I don't see why it should be though. Average consumers don't want to pay as much as they'll be charging.

It's always the SOS with the music industry. Everything is always a scheame to add more dollars on top of their already scandalously high profit margin. They have to face the music someday! Music is going to be a lower margin item or not much of an item at all. They cannot price increase themselves out of their quandary. "...the times they are a'changin'..."
 

Lee Scoggins

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The devil's advocate would say that margins are not high enough given the poor financial results recently.

Of course, the real problem is the consumers view of higher perceived value in other products like DVDs and video games. :)

I wonder if this might hurt DVDA...I see three possibilities:

1. If the testing does not go well it could mean a negative view toward flippers in general and labels may back a hybrid one layer technology like Super Audio,

2. Or maybe it goes well and that restarts DVD-Audio,

3. Or maybe it goes well and labels decide to end the format wars by having dual standards-both Super Audio and DVD Audio.

It will be interesting to see how things go. I may visit Boston soon and report back on my findings...
 
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All the discs that have DVD-A counterparts appear to have the same audio offerings.
Meaning you can stop imagining and yes they do have Hi-res surround, Hi-res stereo, and DD 5.1 all on the same disc, along with video contecnt and other extras.
Sony is the exception here, and I think you CAN imagine why that is;)
 

Michael St. Clair

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$18.99 is full retail, and is the same as for a lot of regular new-release Redbook discs. All that really matters is street price. These discs are already selling for $12.98 in some stores.
 
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Maybe it would be helpful to some doubters to view these discs as DVD-Audio discs that are completely compatible with any CD player and any DVD player (with maybe some wierd exceptions).

I consider that good news!
 

Michael St. Clair

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Good news, for sure.

I do think Rachael owes us an explanation.

When Sony releases SACDs that won't play in CD players, she is mad.

Warner starts releasing DVD-As that do play in CD players...and she is mad.

;)
 

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