Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy on DVD! (1 Viewer)

[Chris PC]

The one my father wants first is Smiley's people. I'm ordering that one first. Probably from DeepDiscount because it appears to be the least expensive.

So the R2 Tinker Tailor is different? What about Smiley's people?

 

[John Hodson]

There is no R2 Smiley's People yet...

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So many films, so little time...

 

[David Lambert]

Its kinda crazy to go buying my dad a DVD player just to watch these things.

I don't know if Radio Shack is in Canada, or if you can get down to the US and pick one up yourself, but isn't $58 (US) pretty cheap for a decent player? You might want to check this out.

 

[Piers C]

John, thank you for providing the links to the reviews for the respective regional releases of TTSS. Very much appreciated.

Anyone with the R1 Acorn provide the name of the extras interview and confirm the run time?

Based on the information in the reviews, the Carre interview on the Acorn R1 release is 30 minutes while the "Secret Centre" doc on the R2 BBC Worldwide release is 58 minutes. Even with PAL speed-up I can't imagine these are the same.

It's unfortunate the BBC restoration team wasn't able to devote some resources to the transfer.

I am not familiar with "Edge of Darkness" -- thanks for the suggestion!

cheers

 

[Ian Hay]

I need to belatedly rain on the parade of TTSS and Smiley's People fans, with respect to Acorn's DVD release of each of these (though mainly the latter). I wanted (and probably still will) write up a longer tome of my grievances, but for the moment (since the topic has re-emerged) I need to alert potential buyers to some pretty awful problems with the Smiley's People DVD release.

In general - Acorn's Smiley's People DVD release is very disappointing. To my (perhaps unrealistic) expectations of DVD treatment of this excellent miniseries, it is an appalling travesty.

I have imported/converted VHS copies of both TTSS and Smiley's People. I'm generally satisfied with TTSS on DVD (with some small caveats), but I will never be able, it seems, to discard my VHS of Smiley's People as it is, between this and the DVD, the reference copy of the miniseries.

1. Audio. The first two episodes (of six) of the Acorn Smiley's People DVD are nearly unlistenable. The dialogue is strain-your-ears muddled and incomprehensible in some points.

After playing my VHS copy again, I realized what the nature of the problem is: the first disc in the DVD set appears to be missing an entire audio track. All background and ambient noises are GONE. The sound of the motorcycle following Smiley, the sound of the telephone ringing when Smiley is visiting with Villem Craven (it looks odd when he picks up and slams down a silent phone!) and the music playing in the Straight-n-Steady mini-cab are all totally absent.

MOST importantly, however, is the total absence of music in key scenes. (MILD SPOILER ahead) For instance, when Smiley is rummaging through Hamstead Heath the day after the General was found, looking for clues: when he looks up the tree and discovers the cigarette pack, the DVD is completely silent. The original (and my VHS copy) has appropriately atmospheric theme music that pipes in on his discovery of this clue. The missing audio track RUINS this key scene.

2. Missing/Deleted Scenes. I noticed, watching Tinker Tailor on DVD, that a few, very short and inconsequential scenes that had appeared on my VHS copy were missing. I was not too miffed, as they would have amounted to a total of 3-5 minutes of the whole miniseries.

Smiley's People was much longer in its original version, however. You'll notice that the running times of each Acorn DVD are fairly similar. The only conclusion (confirmed, of course, by comparing my VHS and DVD copies) is that somewhere between 20 and 40 minutes of Smiley's People have been chopped out of the DVD release.

Unlike TTSS, these scenes are, in many cases, VITAL to the progress of the plot, or at least to character development and essential background information. Some examples (by no means a complete list):

- The scene near the beginning when the General meets Villem in his truck before Villem goes to Hamburg, in which the General discusses the relationship between him and Villem's father, and sends Villem reluctantly on his way...Gone.

- The whole introduction to Mostin's story to Smiley, Lacon and Strickland, explaining the connection of the Riga group to the Circus, the roles of Smiley and Toby Esterhaze in respect of the Riga group (and the introduction to, and key facts regarding, Toby's connection to the story!)...Gone.

- The whole final "terrace" part of the conversation between Smiley and Saul Enderby, outlining Smiley's future course of action, Saul's suspicion of Lacon, Smiley's proposal to include Toby as part of his team, etc....Gone.

- Many, many, minutes' worth of small, atmosphere-driving and character-development scenes...Gone.

In short, if you can obtain a converted VHS copy of this series, you'll be better off, with the solitary exception of the video quality (which is excellent in the DVD, notwithstanding its other nearly-unforgivable faults).

Shame on Acorn.

 

[Chris PC]

Ok. Now I'm confused because I need to know exactly what I'm looking for. I need the best version of Smiley's People. A converted VHS copy of this series? What the heck is that? I mean, a PAL to NTSC converted you mean?
So is the Acorn VHS crap too?
The R2 is the one to get obviously, but I don't have a PAL DVD player. I could get by with using my HTPC through my projector though. If I bought the R2, I could use my HTPC to output via my Matrox G400 max S-video to my SVHS vcr and make my father VHS copies to watch on his vcr, right? He'd own the frickin DVD, so its not pirating in any way. Any ideas about this plan?
This one:
https://www.acornmedia.com/ProductDe...roduct_ID=1389
Probably the same as here on the BBC America shop:
http://www.bbcamericashop.com/defaul...1832&mdm=Video
So whats my best bet? If I have to, I'll get VHS.
My father has read these books almost ten times and if I obtain the series in an inferior form, he'll know and be very disappointed.
Thanx for any more info.

 

[Ian Hay]

Ok. Now I'm confused because I need to know exactly what I'm looking for. A converted VHS copy of this series? What the heck is that? I mean, a PAL to NTSC converted you mean?

Yes, that's what I mean. I got my VHS copies of Tinker Tailor and Smiley's People through a video shop in Toronto that ordered the BBC versions from the UK and did a PAL to NTSC conversion for me. The resulting video quality is terrible, audio passable and...well...it's VHS.
The VHS versions at Acorn and BBC America are the same Acorn version. I am unaware of any native NTSC version of either Tinker Tailor or Smiley's People other than the relatively recent Acorn releases. Acorn's release appears to be a print of the North American Paramount version (it has the Paramount logo at the end of the last episode, where my VHS copy had BBC logos bookending the beginning and end). An explanation would appear to be that this North American version is the same as what may have played on TV here, with sections cut out to make room for commercials.
Your father may be perfectly satisfied with the Acorn DVD or VHS: the video quality will be immeasurably better. However, the audio problem on the DVD (described in my post above) may also exist on Acorn's VHS version - I don't know.
For me, the deleted sections of the miniseries on the Acorn release are irksome to me perhaps because I'm so familiar with the series as it ought to be. I feel it is missing vital parts of the story, but people seeing the Acorn version for the first time, without having seen it recently elsewhere, may not be as "disoriented" as I think they ought to be with these scenes missing. I don't think so, but I don't know.
If it helps, here's a link to a PAL version in the UK, which is likely the complete version I have:
http://www.bbcshop.com/bin/venda?ex=...&invt=bbcv6767

 

[Philip Brandes]

Ian,

Thanks for the informative post. It's funny to read about all the issues you raise, because the only time I saw "Simely's People" was when it originally aired on US network TV, and I remember thinking what a disappointing follow-up it was to "Thinker, Tailor..." specifically because of the lack of music and atmospheric sound! To this day, that remains my most vivid impression of the series, along with the muddled plot--both of which were seemingly casualties of the version aired here.

It's heartening to know that the series existed in a better form, but frustrating because it is unavailable. Even worse, I saw this thread yesterday and finally broke down and ordered "Smiley's People" from DVD Deep Discount--wish I'd seen your post first! Is there any point to having it at all, or is it just too frustrating to keep? (I'm a great fan of TTSS, which I purchased when it was first released on DVD).

Thanks,
Philip Brandes

 

[Chris PC]

Can't we obtain the R2 DVD disc? Is it PAL? Could my HTPC play it through my projector?

 

[Jon Robertson]

Based on the information in the reviews, the Carre interview on the Acorn R1 release is 30 minutes while the "Secret Centre" doc on the R2 BBC Worldwide release is 58 minutes. Even with PAL speed-up I can't imagine these are the same.

PAL speed-up does not apply to programmes shot on videotape (as the documentary was).

 

[Piers C]

PAL speed-up does not apply to programmes shot on videotape (as the documentary was)

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Thanks Jon for the follow-up on the time difference.

-regards

 

[Chris PC]

Opps...so there is NO R2 Smiley's people DVD yet?

I'm confused. What are my options again?

 

[John Hodson]

R1 for Smiley's People and cut scenes (ughh!), R1 for Tinker with interview or R2 with doco.

Read the review links; should you to make your mind up. I'm not commenting on VHS as I have no knowledge.

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So many films, so little time...

 

[Chris PC]

I wonder how bad the cut scenes makes it. Will my father notice? Is the sound that bad? This sucks!

 

[Chris PC]

If my father has a hi-fi stereo VHS vcr and a stereo 20" TV, would buying and converting the PAL VHS tapes be the best bet for the most accurate version? I think I'll just get that and have it converted to NTSC here. Anybody in Canada have a 115 volt PAL vcr? I could play it through my projector and use the iScan Pro to squeeze it. Would look fair wouldn't it?

Anyways...I think I'll try the PAL tapes instead of the DVD. Moron's, I was so excited to see it available and now I have to compromise. Arrghh.

 

[Chris PC]

....and there was a link to buy the PAL video tape but the BBC Shop doesn't ship outside UK & Europe! Looks like I've not much alternative here except a local source that someone here mentioned. Geeez this sucks.

 

[Jon Robertson]

Try somewhere like Benson's World - they're an excellent retailer and happily ship to Canada and the USA.

 

[Chris PC]

Ok. Hello again. I managed to find a copy of Smiley's People on VHS. I found it on, you guessed it, eBay. I received it, and sure enough, the plastic case is exactly what you see on the BBC shop link. When I bid on the item, I did so as a lark, because it said "NTSC" and the guy even replied, when I asked if it was PAL or NTSC, he said "NTSC". Sure enough, I get the thing, and I look at the VHS tapes, each says PAL. Silly me, I take it somewhere to "try" it on a multi-system VCR to see if the quality is ok and whether I can have it converted. Well, it turns out its NTSC. I guess somebody went ahead and just somehow copied the series right ontop of the PAL tape, but in NTSC. The quality is so-so, although I admit, the audio is more than adequate. I guess my father and I will sit back and watch it all and see what we think. He's read the books a zillion times, so I think this version is best.

I was hoping to see if I could grab the DVD and figure out when to switch over to the missing scenes, by stopping the DVD player for a moment and then watching the VCR tape. After reviewing this thread again, I realize its not that simple. The audio in the entire DVD is apparantly poor. I guess I could inquire at acorn if things are still the same, but instead, perhaps I'll just see if we can watch this VHS tape. Now to decide whether to watch it on a small 20" set, or blown up on my projector. Its watchable on the projector, as the iScan Ultra does a fine job of de-interlacing, but as you can imagine, the detail is lacking!

 

[Chris PC]

Two years later...
My father is, right now at this very moment, watching Smiley's People on the NTSC VHS tape of Smiley's People again. I am looking at getting him Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy on DVD, but also, look what I found:
Smiley's People from the BBC...not Acorn
http://www.bbcshop.com/invt/bbcdvd11...nda_bklist1%3E
They also have Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy...
http://www.bbcshop.com/invt/bbcdvd11...nda_bklist1%3E
So what does this mean now? Does anybody know what the above versions are like? Are they different from the Acorn releases?
thanx

 

[John Hodson]

I have both, and while the transfers aren't pristine (nor are they on the Acorn releases I believe), they'll do.
Good prices there at the BBC shop BTW, and you might also want to consider A Perfect Spy;
http://www.bbcshop.com/invt/bbcdvd1677&bklist=