Thundarr the Barbarian (1 Viewer)

[Tony J Case]

Originally Posted by Jason_V

They put out some very good releases, but they overestimated the fanbase for these shows, leading to their closure.

Somehow I dont think that Ark II and The Ghost Busters was responsable for their demise. It was mostly due to the econemy imploding over the last couple of years and the general shrinkage of the DVD market overall.

 

[Greg Chenoweth]

Yes, I totally agree that it is too bad that WHV is making Thundarr available on DVD. It's too bad that they are offering all of the episodes in a four disc set for less money than what they charged for the Flintstones season sets in retail stores. A single disc release at Warner Archive costs $19.99 but for only $10 more, the consumer is getting three additional DVD's! I think WHV has definitely gone too far with these cost savings! It is also too bad that they had the wherewithal to want to release these shows on DVD after people have been asking for it on home video for years. It is also deplorable that they actually want to make money on these releases instead of just giving them away for free. While I'm thinking of it, even though stores like Best Buy are giving less floor space during the holidays to DVD's because sales are way down, WHV has decided to release this series in a format that will make sure that it gets public awareness and actually be available to the buying public. Also, since multi-disc sets are also selling poorly at retail stores, WHV has the gall to want to put out this four-disc set complete and intact with every episode as it originally aired. I also charge WHV with the heinous crime of "no extras" even though these add to the cost of the sets when people only really want to watch the episodes.

 

How dare they do all of this so the customer can have Thundarr on DVD! How far will these people go?

 

[Bryan^H]

Originally Posted by Greg Chenoweth

Yes, I totally agree that it is too bad that WHV is making Thundarr available on DVD. It's too bad that they are offering all of the episodes in a four disc set for less money than what they charged for the Flintstones season sets in retail stores. A single disc release at Warner Archive costs $19.99 but for only $10 more, the consumer is getting three additional DVD's! I think WHV has definitely gone too far with these cost savings! It is also too bad that they had the wherewithal to want to release these shows on DVD after people have been asking for it on home video for years. It is also deplorable that they actually want to make money on these releases instead of just giving them away for free. While I'm thinking of it, even though stores like Best Buy are giving less floor space during the holidays to DVD's because sales are way down, WHV has decided to release this series in a format that will make sure that it gets public awareness and actually be available to the buying public. Also, since multi-disc sets are also selling poorly at retail stores, WHV has the gall to want to put out this four-disc set complete and intact with every episode as it originally aired. I also charge WHV with the heinous crime of "no extras" even though these add to the cost of the sets when people only really want to watch the episodes.

 

How dare they do all of this so the customer can have Thundarr on DVD! How far will these people go?

Given DVD-R's have an archival life of 10-15 years, I think true fans of the show should be upset. Thundarr isn't being released on pressed dvd's(which have an archival life of 100 years or more).

Let's give an example: 12 years from now You have a little time to kill, you pop in Thundarr DVD-R, the glue has just started to deteriorate, and your dvd player doesn't recognize the disc. The Thundarr set is now a paper weight.

 

.

 

[Jason_V]

Originally Posted by Tony J Case
Somehow I dont think that Ark II and The Ghost Busters was responsable for their demise. It was mostly due to the econemy imploding over the last couple of years and the general shrinkage of the DVD market overall.

If I came off as solely blaming Ark II and the other less known series they released as being the only reasons they're no longer around, I apologize. That was not the intent.
 

However, BCI didn't have a ton of well known properties in their stable. Certainly they did wonderful He-Man and She-Ra sets. They did a very nice job on Defenders of the Earth and Dungeons and Dragons. But almost everything else was an obscure title. If they had a couple more "names" maybe they'd still be around. Or maybe not. Who knows.

 

Hopefully I'm articulating better now.  

 

[Jason_V]

Double post. Sorry all.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

 

Originally Posted by Bryan^H




Given DVD-R's have an archival life of 10-15 years, I think true fans of the show should be upset. Thundarr isn't being released on pressed dvd's(which have an archival life of 100 years or more).

Let's give an example: 12 years from now You have a little time to kill, you pop in Thundarr DVD-R, the glue has just started to deteriorate, and your dvd player doesn't recognize the disc. The Thundarr set is now a paper weight.

 

.

Some DVD-Rs die after a year or two (or sometimes, mere MONTHS) just sitting on the shelf. The dyes aren't extremely reliable, and with disc makers cutting more and more corners to bring the prices down on blank media, it's really a risky proposition to expect a DVD-R to be your "archival" copy of anything! Unlike VHS tapes, you get a single bad spot on a burnt disc and it can trash everything stored on it. The disc can be totally scratch-free and no fingerprints (i.e. no fault of your own) and just develop errors due to bad production. At least with proper pressed disc, you usually have to subject them to some abuse to totally ruin them.

 

That's the whole point that I'm trying to make, Greg. Cost savings mean nothing when there's every possibility the set you paid $30 for could wind up being drink coasters in a year or two.

 

[Greg Chenoweth]

Originally Posted by AndyMcKinney


 


Some DVD-Rs die after a year or two (or sometimes, mere MONTHS) just sitting on the shelf. The dyes aren't extremely reliable, and with disc makers cutting more and more corners to bring the prices down on blank media, it's really a risky proposition to expect a DVD-R to be your "archival" copy of anything! Unlike VHS tapes, you get a single bad spot on a burnt disc and it can trash everything stored on it. The disc can be totally scratch-free and no fingerprints (i.e. no fault of your own) and just develop errors due to bad production. At least with proper pressed disc, you usually have to subject them to some abuse to totally ruin them.

 

That's the whole point that I'm trying to make, Greg. Cost savings mean nothing when there's every possibility the set you paid $30 for could wind up being drink coasters in a year or two.

Andy:

 

Here is some information from the following website: http://www.osta.org/technology/dvdqa/dvdqa11.htm. The life expectancy is 30 to 100 years for DVD-R's. I, personally, have burned DVD'R's that have been on my shelf for ten years and there is no denigration issues whatsoever. I have burned some animation off of videocassettes and I still have had no problems. I understand your concern for wanting a good product when you pay good money for it. However, in my reply I am addressing how WHV goes out of their way to provide the material that people are asking for. Box sets for animation have not been selling well in stores, but the demand for the product warrants some format to make it available to the customer. I see the Warner Archive material as an excellent response to this demand and I applaud them for continuously trying to find the right way to get this into the fans' hands and at the same time making a profit.

 

How long will data recorded on writable DVD discs remain readable?
The life span of a written disc depends upon a number of factors including such things as the intrinsic properties of the materials used in the disc’s construction, the quality of its manufacture, how well it is recorded and the way it has been handled and stored. As a result, the life span of a recorded disc is extremely difficult to estimate reliably. However, to calculate disc life spans within some practical timeframe blank media manufacturers conduct accelerated age testing by subjecting samples of their discs to environments much beyond those experienced under normal storage conditions. Generally speaking, these tests only consider the effects of varying temperature and humidity. Results are then used to predict how long a disc will remain readable under more normal storage conditions. Questionable testing and measurement procedures can seriously impact upon and compromise these estimates so keep in mind that unlike prerecorded (pressed) CD and CD-R discs there are currently no international standards for conducting writable DVD accelerated testing. Writable DVDs and CDs may appear similar, but their construction and underlying design differ significantly so what applies to the one does not necessarily apply to the other.

As with CD-R and CD-RW discs media manufacturers have performed their own lifetime evaluations using a variety of homegrown tests and mathematical modeling techniques. Generally speaking, manufacturers claim life spans ranging from 30 to 100 years for DVD-R and DVD+R discs and up to 30 years for DVD-RW, DVD+RW and DVD-RAM. Be aware, however, that disc producers, manufacturing methods and materials change over time as do applications and cost imperatives. Consequently, those concerned with disc longevity should consult their media manufacturer for more particular information.

One thing is sure — nothing lasts forever and technologies inevitably change. Ultimately, since writable DVDs embody digital information, contents may be transferred to future storage systems as becomes necessary to preserve whatever has been stored on the discs.
 

 

[Traveling Matt]

 

Originally Posted by AndyMcKinney thundarr-the-barbarian#post_3732174
...and with disc makers cutting more and more corners to bring the prices down on blank media, it's really a risky proposition to expect a DVD-R to be your "archival" copy of anything!

 

As someone who works extensively with recordable media, I can confirm this is true. The most popular (reliable) brands are either lowering their manufacturing standards or have gone out of business entirely.

 

That aside, it's important to remember that no burned disc - regardless of brand - can compare to a pressed one. They're completely different technology, from the creation and assembly of materials to the final stamp/burn process.

 

[Randy Korstick]

Actually DVD-R, Pressed DVD's, Pressed CD's and VHS tapes have all been reported over and over as having life spans of 10--12 years and while there are always minor exceptions in anything mass produced all of these have proved to be nothing more than urban legends as all of these formats have proven to last longer and still counting.
 

Originally Posted by Bryan^H




Given DVD-R's have an archival life of 10-15 years, I think true fans of the show should be upset. Thundarr isn't being released on pressed dvd's(which have an archival life of 100 years or more).

Let's give an example: 12 years from now You have a little time to kill, you pop in Thundarr DVD-R, the glue has just started to deteriorate, and your dvd player doesn't recognize the disc. The Thundarr set is now a paper weight.

 

.

 

[smithb]

Not sure where this 10-15 years is coming from. I have a document that anyone should be able to find on the web "NIST Special Publication 500-252" from that National Institute of Standards and Technology that has performed tests and estimates DVD-R's as lasting 30 to 100 years (in line with Greg's post), if stored and cared for properly.

 

Now it is always hard to verify the condition of one's collection based on typical use since we may only take something off the shelf but every few years. However, I have my own analysis based on DVD-R's I have made for myself and my children. I use only the Sony brand which has typically rated highly, and I only burn at slower speeds, which I once heard makes a better copy. I have not had any disks I created for myself go bad yet (that I know of) over the past seven years. Not fool-proof by any means based off of random samplings. However, some disks I have made for my children have definitely gone bad during this time. I equate this to use. While there is no direct contact wear and tear, I do think that extensive use within the hot conditions of a player can make a burned disk go bad early. Not a proven fact but seem logical from what I have noted. Now kids are known to watch disks over and over and over again. In one year they will probably watch a particular disk more times then I would in a lifetime. So far none of their pressed disks have gone bad under the same conditions.

 

So I feel fairly confident that a DVD-R watched once a year or every couple of years should last long enough for my use (30 years would be acceptable). All my disks are stored in cases within an approximate 70 degree environment with average humidity and low lighting. Now because of the time I have spent creating these disks (mostly captures from TV), I have most backed up on hard drives as well. The hard drive electronics will probably fail before the disks, but it does afford me with a backup if one goes before the other.

 

So do I like the MOD program vs. pressed disks? No, I would much rather have pressed disks, but if it is the only way to get something I want, I'm willing to go that route from time to time.

 

 

[Greg Chenoweth]

Originally Posted by smithb

So do I like the MOD program vs. pressed disks? No, I would much rather have pressed disks, but if it is the only way to get something I want, I'm willing to go that route from time to time.

 

I agree. I applaud WHV for trying to find a way to make these movies and TV shows available. The other result would be that it never gets released at all because sales would not help to recoup the dollars that it takes to make these releases available, and that would be a shame. WHV has tried to to make animation available by releasing the Saturday Morning collections, DVD box sets, single and double disc releases and now the MOD route. I applaud them for not giving up on the H-B and other animation lines by finding the right format to make these shows available to the public. I totally support it.
 

 

[The Obsolete Man]

About the life of DVDs...

 

You guys realize that some of the early DVDs are 12 or 13 years old now, right?

 

Have they deteriorated and stopped playing?

 

Does everyone who owns a copy of, say, Stroker Ace on DVD just have a shiny frisbee now?

 

MoDs are still too young for us to know if there's a shelf life. But the commercial DVDs? We've already hit that 12 year mark, and they're not spontaneously combusting.

 

[ChuckWL]

So true, so true!

 

[AndyMcKinney]

 

Originally Posted by The Obsolete Man

About the life of DVDs...

 

You guys realize that some of the early DVDs are 12 or 13 years old now, right?

 

Have they deteriorated and stopped playing?

 

Does everyone who owns a copy of, say, Stroker Ace on DVD just have a shiny frisbee now?

I don't think anyone here is questioning the shelf-life of commercial pressed discs like Stroker Ace. They should have at least a similar shelf-life to audio CDs, which have been around since the '80s.

 

It's the reliability of burnt discs which is questionable. As I and others have said, these are two totally different forms of technology. I know several collectors on other forums I frequent who have told me horror stories of discs they burnt themselves going bad in months just by sitting on the shelf. Not vast quantitles, but random enough that if you don't back your entire -R collection up from time to time, you're putting your archive at risk.

 

I had a disc sent to me from the UK that went bad before I even got the chance to watch it all the way through! No, it wasn't scratched or riddled with fingerprints.

 

[smithb]

 

Originally Posted by AndyMcKinney
It's the reliability of burnt discs which is questionable. As I and others have said, these are two totally different forms of technology. I know several collectors on other forums I frequent who have told me horror stories of discs they burnt themselves going bad in months just by sitting on the shelf. Not vast quantitles, but random enough that if you don't back your entire -R collection up from time to time, you're putting your archive at risk.

 

I had a disc sent to me from the UK that went bad before I even got the chance to watch it all the way through! No, it wasn't scratched or riddled with fingerprints.

I would think there are a lot of collectors on a forum like this that burn DVD-R's but I don't recall a big outcry about them having issues. Maybe I just wasn't paying enough attention, but it would probably make a pretty decent poll. If the majority are having random issues here and there then I will agree with you. But if it is very unbalanced with most having none and some having multiple then there could be other factors attributing to the problem.

 

I would think that those that burn a lot also buy in bulk to get deals, as well as probably burning at high speeds. Then there is the quality of the drive or overworking of the drive. Then you have stand-alone player burners vs internal/external computer drives. There could be many factors involved in why some have more issues then others that has nothing to do with the format itself.

 

I've probably burned between 500 and 1000 DVD-R's over the last 8 years, all using the same Pioneer A05/A06 burner that I've had in my computer since around 2002 with no issues. I know a coworker that has probably gone through 5 drives in the same period of time.

 

[Traveling Matt]

Originally Posted by smithb
I would think there are a lot of collectors on a forum like this that burn DVD-R's but I don't recall a big outcry about them having issues.

There are a lot who are now collecting them. That's the issue here. Check out the MOD threads, such as the Warner Archive Discussion Thread in the DVD section of the forum. If that's not a "horror story," I don't know what is.

 

All the elements involved in burning a disc factor in to the finished product, yes. This is why there is such variance with burned discs compared to pressed. Pressed discs have a very specific creation process with few variables.

 

Quality of disc, quality of burner and quality of burning software are all factors with DVD-R. The most common difference between successful and unsuccessful burns generally seems to be disc quality; the best blanks provide the best results, and those are sadly disappearing.

 

I understand there was once some anecdotal evidence - in the earlier days of DVD and DVD-R testing - indicating that the best of the burned discs may actually outlast certain pressed discs. However, with quality falling fast, I doubt that will be true for much longer (if it ever was).

 

[Tony J Case]

Originally Posted by AndyMcKinney
It's the reliability of burnt discs which is questionable. As I and others have said, these are two totally different forms of technology. I know several collectors on other forums I frequent who have told me horror stories of discs they burnt themselves going bad in months just by sitting on the shelf. Not vast quantitles, but random enough that if you don't back your entire -R collection up from time to time, you're putting your archive at risk.

Yup - I've had plenty of DVD-R failures from the old shows I've archived over the years. I'd guess probably 10-15% of 'em will go tits up on me at one point or another. Fortunatly the Gold DVDs seem to be holding up much better.

 

So yeah, unless I can copy those Thundar discs and back 'em up somewhere, I'm not touching that release with a 20 meter cattle prod. That or they drop the price to 15-20 bucks. That's a price point I might be willing to gamble with.

 

[Randy Korstick]

This code brings the price to $22.46 and with free shipping it was a no brainer for me

SCIFI25

 

[SilverWook]

As seems the case with Warner's MOD titles, this is being sold for inflated prices on ebay already.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

Originally Posted by SilverWook

As seems the case with Warner's MOD titles, this is being sold for inflated prices on ebay already.

And, since they're DVD-Rs in the first place, it might be harder to detect pirated copies.