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Thoughts on Buffy: Season 2 (1 Viewer)

Robert Ringwald

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Joss Whedon has stated outright that he shoots for a 4:3 ratio, on Buffy.

He feels that Angel has a more cinematic feel, but he sees Buffy as more of a comforting TV show.

I think there was an article online interviewing him about it a couple months ago.

I wouldn't mind if season 4 - ??? were released in widescreen (which they probably will be) because I can just zoom in to preserve the 4:3 ratio if I want.

But when I get my widescreen tv... I guess I'll just have to put little pieces of tape on the sides of my TV.
 

Jeff Kleist

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The Joss-directed eps are definately framed for 4:3 first (with the exception of OMWF). The other directors may have played more with the 16:9 frame
 

Ken_McAlinden

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The 'protection' you talk about is actually just to make sure that no 4:3 owners have a confusing time, but 16:9 is as valid a ratio as 4:3 for these episodes - they are dual ratioed.
The only way I would believe this is if the directors and/or DPs actually perform a "horizontal Kubrick" and claim that they prefer the looser framings. Otherwise, the more restrictive A/R (4:3) is the one they are framing for just as assuredly as 1.85:1 is what the cinema directors are framing for even if they protect for 4:3. One is OAR, the other is open matte. I'm not trying to organize a boycott of widescreen Buffy DVDs or anything, just stating my thoughts on the matter. I feel the same way about the recent X-Files season 5 box. OAR is what is important to me, not whether or not it fills my 16:9 screen.
We can at least all look forward to a widescreen release of Angel season 3, though, right. :)
Regards,
 

TheoGB

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But that's the point. There are two OARs whatever you may think and in fact, 4x3 is a crop of the original. Joss doesn't actually direct that many episodes. We've had this discussion many many times before and the whole 'Joss likes it TV' has been said those times.
Fact remains that you'll have to wait until you see the widescreen version to work out if you like it more or less, I'd say. ;)
 

Dave F

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I've done a lot of reading/research after Ken's post, and what I've found is that even within the filmmaking community, when researching "shoot and protect", the term "protection" is used to denote two different processes.
In the link that I had provided previously, "protection" refers to the practice of filming a larger image, and "protecting" the smaller, extracted image by ensuring that the crucial images appear within the extracted frame. So in this example, "protection" is the inclusion of crucial information within a smaller area.
Elsewhere, "protection" is referred to as Ken & Jeff mentioned. Here, the main image is shot, but the larger image is "protected" by ensuring that errant microphone booms, cables or lights are excluded from the expanded area that is produced by removing the mattes.
Including/excluding may seem like a minor semantic difference, but it has large implications as it dictates whether or not the protected area is a larger area due to the removal of mattes, or a smaller area that is extracted from the shot image.
The Buffy series would be a perfect opportunity to utilize pan-n-scan on the fly to provide both AR's. But it's a pipe dream, considering the first 2 seasons weren't properly flagged for progressive playback. :frowning: (not sure about the later seasons, as my multi-region player is interlaced)
-Dave
 

Ken_McAlinden

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The Buffy series would be a perfect opportunity to utilize pan-n-scan on the fly to provide both AR's. But it's a pipe dream, considering the first 2 seasons weren't properly flagged for progressive playback. (not sure about the later seasons, as my multi-region player is interlaced)
I totally agree. The funny thing is they can zoom in on the menus for 4:3 TVs cropping the sides, so why not the actual episodes? I would be willing to sacrifice a little horizontal resolution to satisfy the widescreen enthusiasts. :)
Regards,
 

Robert Ringwald

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Well, Joss may not direct that many (lately, he's been directing many less) but he's still on the set almost as much as usual, and even if he doesn't direct each and every episode, he has final say on everything about it.

Like I said, I'd like them to include the 16:9 versions on DVD, but if they didn't, I wouldn't be pissed off.

But it looks like Buffy season 4 - ??? will be released in widescreen, because that's how the other regions have them.
 

Jeff Kleist

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Remember, even if Joss isn't there, he's still the creator/producer

Fox says "Thou shalt shoot 16:9" for future syndication

The Joss says "Thou shalt frame 4:3 and protect for 16:9"
 

TheoGB

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Well I'd be interested to know Jeff: Which did you prefer for Season 4? The widescreen or the TV-ratio version? (I seem to remember you saying you had Season 4 imported.) Which version looked better?
 

Kyle McKnight

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Anyone else happen to find a security tag stuck on the OUTSIDE OF THE FRIGGIN BOX?? It was on the back, behind the little paper insert inside the shrink wrap. How nice...looks like the box is going back for an exchange at Best Buy.
 

Scott Kimball

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Anyone else happen to find a security tag stuck on the OUTSIDE OF THE FRIGGIN BOX?? It was on the back, behind the little paper insert inside the shrink wrap. How nice...looks like the box is going back for an exchange at Best Buy.
I think they're all like that. I got mine off easily without damaging the box.

-S
 

Martin Rendall

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Question: would you return your box set for a new one if there was a 2 second video and audio drop out during the final fight scene in "Some Assembly Required", and episode that you hypothetically didn't really like anyway?

Martin.
 

Robert Ringwald

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Skott,
Yeah!!! I managed to get it off without doing any damage, but I was freaking out for a second there. Why do they do that!?
 

Jeff Kleist

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I don't have any UK Buffy discs, I promised Peter Staddon that if he blessed us with R1 sets I wouldn't import :)
I've seen about 15min of total clips from it tho. All the action seems crowded into the 4:3 box in the center. The point of widescreen is to let your compositions stretch their legs a bit, and I just don't see that happening here. I have to say that I feel the sides are really superflous. Maybe that will change in Season 5/6/7, but that's how I felt about what I saw.
 

Dave F

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...and it's also nice to see all of the Gentlemen on-screen at the same time in "Hush". :)
For the majority of S4 and S5, the first version I saw was the widescreen version.
-Dave
 

Christian Preischl

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Hi,
I also think that the composition looks better in 16:9 most of the times. Especially, the presentation scene in Hush looked pretty cramped in 4:3 and sometimes the image on the wall was slightly cut off on the side even though my TV has very little overscan.
However, and this is likely to cause some discussion, I noticed some shots that were definitely composed for 4:3 only and in the 16:9 versions you see stuff you're not supposed to see(1 and 2).
I also found that in Angel Season 2 some things, mostly the scene transitions, are actually stretched sideways like they were shot in 4:3 and then stretched to fill the sides for the 16:9 version (3). And apparently in one case they forgot to do that (4)!
Examples:
(1) The Freshman

(2) Goodbye Iowa

(3) Redefinition (This is actually during a downward pan that ends on Dru and Darla talking. They are not streched sideways (obviously). Note that I still see this effect in many scene transitions in Season 3 which even airs in WS)

(4) Dead End

It's certainly weird, especially since even Joss seems to like Angel in WS. As I said above, overall composition looks noticably less cramped in many scenes, but still, there are some shots that make you wonder.
Chris
 

TheoGB

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I don't see what we're not meant to see in shots 1 and 2. Particularly (1) where we get sense of space. Even in a standard movie filmed for widescreen there isn't a necessity that all action stretches across the screen. Pan & Scan 'zooms' don't always have to miss vital bits of the action.

That Angel stuff is odd. I've not got S2 Angel due to money and waiting for S3 as I've not seen any of it...
 

Christian Preischl

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Hi,

The amorphous black blob on the right edge of shot 1 and surrounding much of shot 2?
Actually, the thing on left the side of shot 1 isn't part of the scene either. It can be distinguished much easier when the camera moves.

To my technically untrained eye it looks like the inside of the lens they used in that scene, because in this shot (and two previous ones that exhibit the same problem) the picture is slightly distorted which gives the whole scenery a slightly surreal feel (not sure if it's a wide angle lens or something else).

Chris
 

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