Things looking ominous for BOTH formats? (1 Viewer)

[Jack Briggs]

Austan, remember all the problems that were addressed by firmware updates with DVD players back in the first three generations from 1997 until around 2000? Yet DVD survived and thrived. I think the bumpy functionality of the Toshiba players would count as the same thing. And Toshiba has addressed them. But maybe I'm reading you wrong.

 

[Austan]

Those were differnt times, I think theres a little thing called a Format War going on. I was asked the quetion why 7500 units of HD-DVD player is a disadvantage compared to 0 units of a Blu-Ray player.

My reply: First out the gate did not flood the market and now Toshiba is left to answering the complaints.

 

[RobertR]

What post update complaints?

 

[Austan]

Google: "Toshiba HD A1 review"
A firmware fixed some issues but it can't fix them all...

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1967044,00.asp
"No 1080p output. Excruciatingly slow start-up. Takes 45 seconds to load an HD DVD. Frustrating remote-control layout. "

http://gear.ign.com/articles/711/711185p1.html
"The HD-A1 is a quintessential first product to market, which explains a number of its quirks."

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,125431,00.asp
"Overall the HD-XA1 is a little disappointing, especially because of the speed. The player has a hefty price tag--it is currently available in Japan for about $847 and will be launched this month in the U.S. for $800--and the slow boot-up is a surprise. "

http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-...ace-174127.php
"Fan noise, crashing, a clumsy remote and slow performance doomed the first-to-market player..."

 

[JohnRice]

The truth is, I don't think this whole television thing is going to make it.

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

Isn't it ironic though that you repeat the same message and even start a new thread that is "bad news" about BOTH formats - although based on unsubstantiated evidence posted by an individual on a forum that prides itself on protecting the anonymity of its members?

So on one hand you are saying people should want GOOD news about BOTH formats, but then you start this thread... now that realy is ironic.

 

[RobertR]

But not contradictory. After all, what is and what one wants are not the same thing.

 

[RobertR]

Austan, you didn't link to a SINGLE thing that links to post-firmware update user comments. So you've haven't responded.

 

[Austan]

Its not up to me to back up what you said. I've backed up what I said. I've said that "First out the gate is also a double edge sword. You get all the complements as well as all the complaints."

There's a list of complaints (not from forums or blogs) that Toshiba has to answer. I think you mention the firmware. Now does your firmware fix the complaints in the reviews above?

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

True, but this BAD news you quoted has not in any way been shown to based on actual facts... so how was that useful? By appearances it almost appears that you are having a thinly-veiled celebration over this posted FUD from another site. :frowning:

Thus the irony continues, and fuels the fire of heated debates over misleading comments from anonymous sources. Something I thought we all agreed on was a bad thing.

 

[RobertR]

Don't you think people want an explanation for delays?

 

[Austan]

Once again... I've posted the complaints against the Toshiba, so isn't it your job to post a rebuttal?

And I never said that BD wont have the same issues. Read what I said again. "Try convincing people that "boot up" times are normal when you have the only player available. If there were other products on the market to compare then it would be easier. Being first out, makes you the target for every criticism."

The links I posted were all on the first page of a Google search. So if a consumer was looking at the two formats this is what they will read. So when almost every review they read has something negative to say, dont you think its a bad thing? There are no BD player reviews to compare against.

So if you dont find links to articles that address's the concerns on the links I provided, then no one reading this thread will know about the firmware fixes.

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

Except it wasn't an explanation, it was and is unsubstantiated FUD... unless of course you have verifiable proof that "info" is accurate. That would in fact be useful. Otherwise, not only is it not an explanation, nor was it useful, but it is just another example of painting a bad picture of these formats without actual facts to back it up.

 

[RobertR]

I did.

 

[RobertR]

It’s the delays that are causing the FUD, Nils, not what appears to be a plausible explanation for them.

 

[Austan]

RobertR you really need to learn to read...

"Poor quality can also mean a rushed product that was not refined and need a firmware upgrade out the door. How many HD-DVD movies are available? and yet the player couldnt even play them all with out a hitch... to me that points to poor testing and therefore poor quality..."

Funny how your rebuttal only backs up what I've said:

Poor quality = "crash"

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

Actually, the only cause of FUD are from those that post it, and those that pass it on. What might inspire them to post FUD is only known to them.

As for plausible, it might be plausible if it weren't for the fact that it was presented as factual, and not as plausable specualtion = FUD

At least with this thread it supports your notion that some here only want to paint these formats in bad light, even if it means using FUD to do it. :frowning:

 

[RobertR]

Still no post-update "complaints" from Austan.

 

[Steve Schaffer]

Toshiba has sold every player it can produce, there are many threads over at AVS from people desperate just to find one to buy. New production already has the firmware update, some of these have been in customer's hands for a couple of weeks now.

What we tend to lose track of is the fact that both formats are competing for a relatively tiny niche market--owners of HD-capable tv sets.

If either format is doomed it's because they're competing for such a small market in the first place, and it wouldn't surprise me if both fail for this reason. Even many if not most owners of HD-capable sets will perhaps not see enough improvement over SD-DVD to justify a buy-in of either format.

 

[Peter Overduin]

I live in the lower mainland of BC and can't even FIND a SACD player in ANY store. Many sales people I encounter think HDMI is the new HD DVD and I hear them tell people it is. When I ask about PS3...most dont have a clue. I have yet to meet a single sales person in any big box store who understands that DVD-A is a multi-channel surround format, not "yep..all our players will do CDs."

The bottom line is that there is everything from total confusion to utter ambivalence; due in no small part to an appalling lack of consumer education by studios and hardware manufacturers, coupled with a plethora of stupid 19 year old sales people; most of whom because they are in the 80% of their sales force making 20% of the money (an unarguable stat BTW) have neither the motivation or money to buy these technologies or inform themselves.

HD-DVD will work because the branding makes sense and the price point establishes some value in at least a segment of the buying public. BD will ultimately fail because it is being bungled in an astonishing fashion; it's players will reflect absurd price points with absolutely NO reason to buy it over HD-DVD and becuase, as with PS2, people do not buy gaming machines to use as their primary DVD movie watching medium. There is no logical justification whatsoever for any informed consumer to spend twice as much on BD as HD-DVD. There is no value in reality or perception for this and the consumer at large wont buy it, in the same way they have not bought into SACD or DVD-A. It is worth noting that the lower mainland of BC has consistently been rated as the most concentrated and competitive region in North America for consumer electronics.

It's all a freaking mess, and once again, Sony will pay the piper.