The Walking Dead: Season 4 (2 Viewers)

[Jeffery_H]

^ I think the kids (the creepy girl, etc.) had the baby. This is a big assumption but I figured that they set the carrier down on the ground momentarily and a walker came up & ate the baby. Rather than show that onscreen, they wanted to spare the audience seeing a baby die and save the reveal for when Rick and Carl found the carrier at the end. Either way, I'm sure it'll be clarified within an episode or two in February.

The TV show is frequently different from the comic book but in the comic,

Spoiler

Judith is shot and killed along with Lori when The Governor attacks the prison.

This was in fact seen in part during the show. It's where the girls are talking about how they could help too and knew how to fight back thanks to Carol. That's when they set the baby carrage down and the camera cuts away to the next scene. You didn't know until the end when the girls shoot the bad women trying to kill Tyrese they had both gone back to get weapons. At the end when you see the baby carrage you know what had happened and the girls didn't think about protecting the baby first, or we assume.

 

[Jeffery_H]

The show "Too Far Gone" was very conflicting for me on many levels. It was very well done in some ways, but in others a train wreck or even shouldn't be done.

I find it HIGHLY unlikely that another group of people would so blindly follow any individual, regardless of their claims or back story in following a single person into combat and cold blooded murder yet again. The whole point of Woodbury was it built up over time, alliences were formed and certain bonds were made. Over time, that trust the people placed in the Governor had turned against them, but the reasons could be established. However, the way they handled the appearence of the Governor and him becoming leader of a group yet again was way too unplausable.

Given that, even if you accept it, I find other factors at great fault. You can't just get people to change into Sociopaths and start killing people. The basic Psychology of the human mind would suggest most are normal in their behaivor. That means murder, killing or however you want to think of taking a human life would not be something they would want to do. Therefore, getting the entire group to follow along, especially on the words of a single person, wouldn't be remotely likely to happen. People don't just become killers and change who they are as a person. If anything, the Governor would be an outsider and many people in that camp would know exactly the type of person he was very soon after meeting him, just like Michonne did.

The whole 3 episode story arc with the Governor shouldn't have been done I don't think and would've been much batter had they had this big battle at the end of last season. You could've still written out the same characters and gotten them out of the prison by basically being where we are at now. Many other things were hit and miss, but I'll save that for a more mini-review later.

 

[ScottH]

I find it HIGHLY unlikely that another group of people would so blindly follow any individual, regardless of their claims or back story in following a single person into combat and cold blooded murder yet again. The whole point of Woodbury was it built up over time, alliences were formed and certain bonds were made. Over time, that trust the people placed in the Governor had turned against them, but the reasons could be established. However, the way they handled the appearence of the Governor and him becoming leader of a group yet again was way too unplausable.

I kind of see what you're saying, but my bigger issue with that situation was the fact that it seemed not one single person in that group even suspected the "newcomer" of taking out Martinez.

 

[TravisR]

I can buy the group blindly following The Governor since they're scared, he's giving them an 'evil' enemy to fight and he's offering them a very safe place to live. However, when Rick offered them sanctuary and says how they'll all lose the prison if they bring down the fence, I find it extremely hard to believe that they'd continue to follow The Governor. I completely buy The Governor losing his mind enough that he'd just want to destroy everything in his path but even the riot-happy townspeople on The Simpsons don't have a mob mentality that makes them act stupid enough that they'd wreck their only hope.

 

[ScottH]

Yeah I was definitely yelling at the screen for one of those people to shoot the governor when they were talking to Rick.

 

[Walter Kittel]

Last four posts in this thread... +1

I also had problems with the Governor pulling a Jedi Mind Trick on the entire group, particularly after Rick made his impassioned speech. There was not enough time for the Governor to sway the people to that extent. He was their leader for what, just a few days?

- Walter.

 

[Charlie Campisi]

Last four posts in this thread... +1

I also had problems with the Governor pulling a Jedi Mind Trick on the entire group, particularly after Rick made his impassioned speech. There was not enough time for the Governor to sway the people to that extent. He was their leader for what, just a few days?

- Walter.

I think it was a longer period of time, at least several weeks and maybe months. It's hard to follow the time sequence because there were far more episodes dealing with the prison rather than the Guv on the road, but there are clues. The clues I saw related to the transformation of the organization of the new camp and how they went on runs, collected supplies and arms and assigned tasks. It's also evident in the relationship between Tara and Alisha which has progressed to love and a promise "to find her wherever she escapes to." Because I assumed that a much longer period of time elapsed at the camp than you did, Walter, I concluded that the Guv had a lot longer time to earn the trust of those who followed him into battle. I gave credit to the fact that the people in the camp were craving a leader with Pete and Martinez dead. Their life needed a purpose and he gave it to them. They embraced that purpose notwithstanding its danger and moral questionableness, possibly in part because otherwise, they'd be staying in the camp, waiting for the next type of grave danger to happen along. The attack on the prison gave them a sense of controlling their future, rather than passively accepting it.

I agree with you that it all happened quickly. I just don't question it too much, especially given that most of the critics were pushing for the story to move faster, rather than slower. I don't think anyone wanted to see more time with the Guv in the camp before he attacked the prison. Attack the prison, kill the Guv and set Rick and the group on the move. That's what everyone wanted, and that's what the show gave us. I think it was done appropriately, but understand other's criticisms.

 

[Dave Scarpa]

yeah it seemed like the show wanted us to think months passed by. After the nearby camp was attacked it was shown that the guv's camp had erected their barbedwire fence, and started assigning roles, By the time they were asked to attack the prison, the guv had kept the group safe , the only safty they had known since Martinez, not hard to accept that group after what they've been threw would blindly ally with any force of nature such as the guv, the show could've shows the passage of time better.

 

[Walter Kittel]

You may be correct about the time frame Charlie. It certainly felt like a short period of time between the Governor assuming control and the attack and I don't think the show did a good job of communicating the passage of time if it was somewhat substantial. And even if it were longer, I'm not sure why anyone would just take someone's word that there were a bunch of evil bastards at the prison without some corroboration. Of course I may be applying this world's logic to the zombie apocalypse which operates by a different set of (evolving) rules.

- Walter.

 

[TravisR]

And even if it were longer, I'm not sure why anyone would just take someone's word that there were a bunch of evil bastards at the prison without some corroboration.

I think they want to believe it. From what you saw of them, they seem like decent enough people but taking The Governor at his word allows them to kill everyone there with little guilt and also end up with a sweet place to live.

 

[ScottH]

And when are they finally going to get to an island?!?

I've always thought a cruise ship would be ideal.

 

[Jeffery_H]

You may be correct about the time frame Charlie. It certainly felt like a short period of time between the Governor assuming control and the attack and I don't think the show did a good job of communicating the passage of time if it was somewhat substantial. And even if it were longer, I'm not sure why anyone would just take someone's word that there were a bunch of evil bastards at the prison without some corroboration. Of course I may be applying this world's logic to the zombie apocalypse which operates by a different set of (evolving) rules.

- Walter.

I agree with you on this and fully disagree with everyone else about any sort of logic behind this. As I have stated, people don't just change who they are, regardless of situations. Their basic footprints of their personality traits and phyche have well been developed by a fairly young age. This is why we have law enforcement agents that are Doctors in Psychology and Social Behaivor sciences. They can form cases where they learn what their mental states are so predicting their next moves, motivation behind it, etc. are established for their use.

Now, this show is totally fictional granted so we have to throw out any form of real life details here for the most part. However, even in a state of crisis, people won't or can't change their basic footprint, it's simply not possible as a human to do. While an event or circumstance may force someone into an action they may not otherwise have done, it would not be their "norm". Given this event is now the new world norm, people would not be any more likely to act different. Therefore, getting a group of random people to band together to commit mass murder, regardless of circumstance is not plausable.

While weeks may have passed with the Governor at the small camp (although not clear), there would be at least more than a few people that did not accept any of this, bring calm to the camp as a group and establishing an order of dealing with their situation that would result in the majority being OK with it. In fact, the likely outcome is most would disarm the Governor AND the evil brother (not sure his character name) that sided with him. They would've been kicked out of the camp and left to their own.

 

[TravisR]

I have an admittedly pessimistic view of humanity but I think given the situation, that prison would make 99.9% of all people devolve to the point where they would follow anyone and do anything if it offered them a chance to get in there. They're scared sheep so I don't think any of them were going to kill The Governor when he started to go nuts but I do find it hard to believe that at least one of them wouldn't have said "That sounds pretty good. Let's do that." when Rick offered them sanctuary.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

While weeks may have passed with the Governor at the small camp (although not clear), there would be at least more than a few people that did not accept any of this, bring calm to the camp as a group and establishing an order of dealing with their situation that would result in the majority being OK with it.

There WERE such people in the camp, and the Governor methodically killed them. Martinez was one, and he got a golf club to the head. Enver Gjokaj was another one, and he got killed in his trailer.Kirk Acevedo's character was a hothead, and I think that's why the Governor kept him alive and made him his lieutenant. Consciously or not, he wanted to surround himself with people who would fan the flames instead of extinguish them. It very much puts the lie to his assertion that he was going to try and do things peacefully.I also think the loss of two leaders in quick succession punctured the security of the camp and made the populace in the camp more amenable to the Governor's plan.

 

[Charlie Campisi]

I also think the loss of two leaders in quick succession punctured the security of the camp and made the populace in the camp more amenable to the Governor's plan.

I agree with the balance of your post Adam. I also add to the tail end of your post that by leaving Mitch in place, who is crazy, extreme and unlikable to many of people in the camp, the Governor makes himself look like a much more reasonable alternative as a leader. IIRC, there was also some passive objection and questions when the Guv was asking the people to attack the prison and appealing that by showing force they could take it without bloodshed. Tara and Lily both saw the Guv for what he was and did not fight at the prison. Tara tried to get Alisha to run away with her and get out of the fight.

I think the opinion that it was a stretch that these people could be incited to attack the prison is fair, even though I was ok with the attack. I also think the writers gave us small clues to the fact that some objected, months had passed and the group dynamic was prone to accept a leader and radical solution. It worked for me, if not for all.

I still think the net result was good. Guv dead, prison security destroyed, Rick and group on the move.

Lastly, sound fx for the battle were excellent and pushed my sub and surround speakers.

 

[Stan]

Finally had time to watch the episode, along with "Talking Dead", I thought it was a great mid-season finale. I'm always pretty flexible and tolerant of what happens in fictional shows when they're as well done as this one is. Will miss Herschel (what an awful way go), but the Governor finally got what should have happened long ago.

Glad Michonne survived. Her and Carl have become the major bad-asses in this show, don't tolerate anything from people threatening the safety of the group.

 

[Sam Posten]

I am still dying to find out who makes the 3d cube artwork on the Talking Dead studio, if anyone can help me track that down I'd be very thankful. Google has failed me!

 

[joshEH]

Frank Darabont is suing AMC for tens of millions over The Walking Dead:

http://www.deadline.com/2013/12/walking-dead-frank-darabont-lawsuit-amc/

Darabont worked really hard to get this thing made; as in, the show wouldn't even exist without him. I hope he gets a huge amount of money out of them, then splits it with Romero.

If they surrender only $5.00, that's probably still all Darabont needs to make The Long Walk. Darabont's also developing a TV series based on Stephen King's The Mist.

I doubt he would have money to make believable creatures, although you could still do some creepy shit and build a good atmosphere with little money. The problem is how to sustain it over ten parts.

We'll probably get a new cast of characters, but I would love it if Thomas Jane returned. Have him snap from the death of his family, and he hunts every creature he can find. Basically "The Punisher versus The Mist." I'm only half-joking.

 

[Stan]

For anybody who wants to catch up on episodes they may have missed or don't own on disc, AMC is repeating everything from episode one through to the latest episode starting Dec. 31 at 6 a.m. PST.

 

[TravisR]

The second half of the season starts on Sunday.