The Sword In The Stone 50th Anniversary (Blu-ray) Available For Preorder (1 Viewer)

[FoxyMulder]

Okay, understood.

I just wanted to make absolutely certain because we have
gotten into some huge messes over screen caps.

I wish everyone luck in their efforts to contact Disney.

I can tell you that there have been many rumors out there
that company execs want those animated classics to look
brand-new so that people that don't know any better "ooh"
and "aaah" over a completely grainless picture.

Let's just call it heresay, but I have heard it often, and now
with the comments regarding this release...

That's the problem though, they want them to look grain free and look like modern CGI animated titles, there has to be a compromise to image quality when you want that look, i have stopped purchasing older Disney classics due to the fact i don't think they are as anywhere near as good as they could be, i mean i have seen them all before so for me to buy them again on blu ray requires the studio to treat them correctly.

Put it this way, we have an aspect ratio thread and complain loudly if the aspect ratio isn't treated with respect, we should have a thread where we can scream loudly if animated classics are scrubbed of their natural film grain and end up losing detail because of it, i think screencaps from respectable sites can and do show this to be the case with many Disney classic titles.

Some review sites are already giving Disney plaudits for this new release, i don't understand it, i just don't get it, i have some of the Disney classics which have had grain scrubbed away, Bambi is an example of this, i hate it, detail has been removed, no film texture, it's not good but the reviews tell me it is good, i disagree with many of them.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

Okay, understood.

I just wanted to make absolutely certain because we have
gotten into some huge messes over screen caps.

I wish everyone luck in their efforts to contact Disney.

I can tell you that there have been many rumors out there
that company execs want those animated classics to look
brand-new so that people that don't know any better "ooh"
and "aaah" over a completely grainless picture.

Let's just call it heresay, but I have heard it often, and now
with the comments regarding this release...

Thanks Ronald, I know questions must be asked but in this case I think looking at the grabs, it's one almighty FUP.

 

[Mark-P]

I haven't seen the Blu-ray yet, and I'm reserving my judgments. I think all the tar-and-feather speech is a bit much. HTF officially gives the PQ a 4.5 and the reviewer has not changed his rating. Maybe there's a problem and maybe there's not. If you guys manage to convince the Disney folks and they fix it and do and exchange then you'll get my hearty congratulations.

 

[JoeDoakes]

Disney has been fiddling with its animated classics for some time (check out the discussion of the Pinnochio blu on HTF for example). How do people feel about The Sword in the Stone in comparison to other Disney animated blu releases?

 

[Ethan Riley]

Has anyone actually bought it yet?

 

[Mark-W]

Point taken re: grammar. I did both edit and correct it before sending it.

Thus far, I have gotten a call back where the service rep talked to me over the phone and took the report.

The initial email with that message resulted in this reply:

Please visit the following URL to contact Disney DVD & Blu-ray Help directly:http://www.disneystudioshelp.com/Contact_Us.html

I am doing that this evening even though it is a branch option to speaking with a rep directly, which I have already done.

 

[Jason_V]

Has anyone actually bought it yet?

Mine came in last night and I'm hoping to watch this, Oliver or Robin Hood tonight.

 

[MatthewA]

Has anyone actually bought it yet?

I received it from Amazon the other day along with Oliver and Company and Robin Hood. I have moved to a new house, my projector needs a new bulb, and I need to put my screen back together, so it'll be awhile before I can get to it.

 

[haineshisway]

oh here we go again.....screencaps lie, you can't tell anything from screencaps, pure nonsense, you can tell a lot.

If you want to stop having your usual hissy fit, you of course completely misunderstood the point of my post, which I think is fairly obvious to anyone who isn't looking for any opportunity to make a volatile post. The POINT was, if I were at Disney and received an angry note about a transfer from someone who admits they haven't seen it, I would throw it in the trash. As Ron has pointed out, screen caps have been responsible for some awful advance word of mouth on transfers that have turned out to be amazing - The Ten Commandments and Breakfast at Tiffany's being two simple examples. How do you explain those two examples - awful screen caps posted or people looking at them and thinking they understand what they're seeing and canceling orders and decrying transfers that are, in fact, pretty much perfect straight down the line. Yes, how do you explain that? And that's only two examples - there are many such stories in the Naked City.

 

[haineshisway]

That's the problem though, they want them to look grain free and look like modern CGI animated titles, there has to be a compromise to image quality when you want that look, i have stopped purchasing older Disney classics due to the fact i don't think they are as anywhere near as good as they could be, i mean i have seen them all before so for me to buy them again on blu ray requires the studio to treat them correctly.

Put it this way, we have an aspect ratio thread and complain loudly if the aspect ratio isn't treated with respect, we should have a thread where we can scream loudly if animated classics are scrubbed of their natural film grain and end up losing detail because of it, i think screencaps from respectable sites can and do show this to be the case with many Disney classic titles.

Some review sites are already giving Disney plaudits for this new release, i don't understand it, i just don't get it, i have some of the Disney classics which have had grain scrubbed away, Bambi is an example of this, i hate it, detail has been removed, no film texture, it's not good but the reviews tell me it is good, i disagree with many of them.

Just a simple question: Have you seen this transfer? Just curious. I haven't seen it, BTW, so can offer no opinion yay or nay and I'm certainly not going to be silly enough to offer an opinion based on a screen cap from who knows where taken who knows how - sorry, just won't play that game.

 

[Robert Crawford]

People engage in these kind of passionate discussions, but let's stop using terms like "hissy fit" as there is no reason to get personal with our comments. We can make our points without using such terms. Thank you.

 

[Mark-W]

I stopped by Costco on the way home today and picked up Robin Hood and, against my better judgment, The Sword and The Stone.

I popped in my "Gold Collection" DVD of The Sword and The Stone and watched the scene of Arthur writing the alphabet, and then I did the same thing with the new Blu-ray. Then I scanned a few other scenes.

I am probably one of the most easy-to-please folks at this forum when it comes to Blu-rays and picture quality; I am happy if the film shows a modest to good bump in picture quality over the previously-released DVD iteration.. But I let my history here speak for me. Please go back and look for me being this angry about another picture quality issue at this forum. Go ahead; We'll wait.

Find nothing? Right, let's move on...

The image quality of the Blu-ray is worse than has been reported. I thought that maybe the images where the figures were bigger in the frame would not suffer, but the whole picture is just marred beyond what I would have believed.

And, for this era of Disney animated films, I cannot imagine a more ill-suited digital clean up process to put them through, because part of their unique quality is in the roughness of the marks made by the animators and the nature of less polished backgrounds.

Starting with, I believe 101 Dalmatians, the animator's had their drawings directly transferred to the acetate. There were not "ink and paint girls" transferring their work to acetate by hand and doing extensive clean up. The pinnacle work of those ink and paint folks is on display in every frame of Sleeping Beauty, where no line is other than precise and clean.

For The Sword and The Stone, we *should* be seeing the extra little drawing marks around the characters being animated. That is the work of the actual animators, and not the clean up team cleaning up the animation. And it is cool and wonderful and amazing...and the animators were proud of it.

Another interesting aspect of this era is how Disney animated films move towards more simplified backgrounds, so, in 101 Dalmatians, you get these ideas of city landscapes, but with large blocks of color spanning several buildings and sections of the street that are not "painted inside the lines." The same is true for much of The Sword and The Stone, particularly in the non-woods backgrounds and backgrounds like the stacks of books behind Arthur and Archimedes during their chalkboard lesson together.

On this Blu-ray, most of that extra detail and animator rough line work is GONE. It has been smeared away and all the detail and life of the drawing is gone along with it.

The aforementioned chalk board looks worse the the previously provided screen caps.
That is not chalk he is writing with, it looks more like he is smearing marshmallow goo.

That is it! The whole film is gooey. Nothing crisp nor clean nor fresh. Blurry and gooey.

Backgrounds look like they're about to melt. Characters are, more often than not, mushy. After scanning the Blu-ray, Merlin seems to suffer the least, maybe, but Archimedes often looks like every drawing of him has been smudged on oil board before being filmed.

It is as if the whole thing was drawn with oil sticks and then someone took all of those oil based drawings and put them in the microwave for five minutes on high-power to see what would happen.

The "Gold Collection" DVD has its own set of image issues, but it is a better image in terms of representing what the artists actually drew and seeing their work than this Blu-ray.

If this was 2008, I could almost forgive Disney for being so incompetent in their handling of this release. Even Universal re-released Patton on Blu-ray because they learned and got better at doing their jobs. They got smarter about applying DNR, if they were going to. Disney should be putting all the other studios to shame in terms of picture quality because no other studio's back catalog of films has as much of a predetermined market that will buy its films on Blu-ray.

Here's hoping Costco takes this Blu-ray back.

 

[haineshisway]

People engage in these kind of passionate discussions, but let's stop using terms like "hissy fit" as there is no reason to get personal with our comments. We can make our points without using such terms. Thank you.

Excuse me, but when someone begins a post with "Oh here we go again" and moves on to "pure nonsense" I don't think hissy fit is so far off the mark nor do I find it personal or terrible. I realize that you're sensitive to these things for whatever reasons, but Foxy Muldur and I have sparred like this many times - it is neither personal nor offensive, but if you're telling ME to stop then tell him as well. Thank you in advance.

 

[haineshisway]

I stopped by Costco on the way home today and picked up Robin Hood and, against my better judgment, The Sword and The Stone.

I popped in my "Gold Collection" DVD of The Sword and The Stone and watched the scene of Arthur writing the alphabet, and then I did the same thing with the new Blu-ray. Then I scanned a few other scenes.

I am probably one of the most easy-to-please folks at this forum when it comes to Blu-rays and picture quality; I am happy if the film shows a noticeable bump in picture quality over the previously-released DVD iteration. But I let my history here speak for me. Please go back and look for me being this angry about another picture quality issue at this forum. Go ahead, we'll wait. Find nothing? Right, let's move on...

The picture of the Blu-ray is worse than has been reported. I thought that maybe the images where the figures were bigger in the frame would not suffer, but the whole picture is just marred beyond what I would have believed.

And, for this era of Disney animated films, I cannot imagine a more ill-suited digital clean up process to put them through, because part of their unique quality is in the roughness of the marks made by the animators.

For this era in Disney animation, the animator's had their drawings directly transferred to the acetate. There were not "ink and paint girls" doing extensive clean up like we see in during the pinnacle of their mastery of flawless ink and painting, Sleeping Beauty, where no line is other than precise and clean. This is why, starting with, I believe 101 Dalmatians, we see the extra little drawing marks around the characters being animated. That is the work of the actual animators, and not the clean up team cleaning up the animation. And it is cool.
Another cool aspect, is how they move towards more simplified backgrounds, so, in 101 Dalmatians, you get these ideas of city landscape, but with large blocks of color spanning several buildings and sections of the street that are not "painted inside the lines." Same here for much of The Sword and The Stone, particularly in the non-woods backgrounds and things like the stacks of books behind Arthur and Archimedes during their lesson together.

Most that extra detail and animator rough line work is just GONE. It has been smeared away and all the detail and life of the drawing is gone along with it.

The aforementioned chalk board looks worse the the previously provided screen caps. That is not chalk he is writing with, it looks more like he is smearing marshmallow goo.

That is it: the whole film is gooey. Nothing crisp or clean or fresh. Blurry and gooey.

Goo. ALL OF IT. Backgrounds look like they'd melt. Characters are, more often than not, mush. Merlin seems to suffer the least, maybe, but Archimedes often looks like every drawing of him has been smuggled before being filmed.

It is as if the whole thing was drawn with oil sticks and then someone took all of those oil based drawings and put them in the microwave to see what would happen.

The "Gold Collection" DVD has its own set of image issues, but it is a better image in terms of representing what the artists actually drew and seeing their work than this Blu-ray.

Here's hoping Costco takes this Blu-ray back.

See, now you've seen it - now you have commented based on seeing it and we can either agree or disagree - again, I haven't seen it and probably won't, as I've never really liked the film itself.

 

[JoeDoakes]

I stopped by Costco on the way home today and picked up Robin Hood and, against my better judgment, The Sword and The Stone.

I popped in my "Gold Collection" DVD of The Sword and The Stone and watched the scene of Arthur writing the alphabet, and then I did the same thing with the new Blu-ray. Then I scanned a few other scenes.

I am probably one of the most easy-to-please folks at this forum when it comes to Blu-rays and picture quality; I am happy if the film shows a noticeable bump in picture quality over the previously-released DVD iteration. But I let my history here speak for me. Please go back and look for me being this angry about another picture quality issue at this forum. Go ahead, we'll wait. Find nothing? Right, let's move on...

The picture of the Blu-ray is worse than has been reported. I thought that maybe the images where the figures were bigger in the frame would not suffer, but the whole picture is just marred beyond what I would have believed.

And, for this era of Disney animated films, I cannot imagine a more ill-suited digital clean up process to put them through, because part of their unique quality is in the roughness of the marks made by the animators.

For this era in Disney animation, the animator's had their drawings directly transferred to the acetate. There were not "ink and paint girls" doing extensive clean up like we see in during the pinnacle of their mastery of flawless ink and painting, Sleeping Beauty, where no line is other than precise and clean. This is why, starting with, I believe 101 Dalmatians, we see the extra little drawing marks around the characters being animated. That is the work of the actual animators, and not the clean up team cleaning up the animation. And it is cool.
Another cool aspect, is how they move towards more simplified backgrounds, so, in 101 Dalmatians, you get these ideas of city landscape, but with large blocks of color spanning several buildings and sections of the street that are not "painted inside the lines." Same here for much of The Sword and The Stone, particularly in the non-woods backgrounds and things like the stacks of books behind Arthur and Archimedes during their lesson together.

Most that extra detail and animator rough line work is just GONE. It has been smeared away and all the detail and life of the drawing is gone along with it.

The aforementioned chalk board looks worse the the previously provided screen caps. That is not chalk he is writing with, it looks more like he is smearing marshmallow goo.

That is it: the whole film is gooey. Nothing crisp or clean or fresh. Blurry and gooey.

Goo. ALL OF IT. Backgrounds look like they'd melt. Characters are, more often than not, mush. Merlin seems to suffer the least, maybe, but Archimedes often looks like every drawing of him has been smuggled before being filmed.

It is as if the whole thing was drawn with oil sticks and then someone took all of those oil based drawings and put them in the microwave to see what would happen.

The "Gold Collection" DVD has its own set of image issues, but it is a better image in terms of representing what the artists actually drew and seeing their work than this Blu-ray.

Here's hoping Costco takes this Blu-ray back.

Please let us know what you think about Robin Hood.

 

[darkrock17]

See, now you've seen it - now you have commented based on seeing it and we can either agree or disagree - again, I haven't seen it and probably won't, as I've never really liked the film itself.

Then why did you reply to this thread in the first place then? If anything from you're last few replys on here its that you like to create unnecessary drama.

 

[Mark-W]

The bottom line is, I should not have had to buy this film on Blu-ray. That is what Blu-ray reviews by folks who do this regularly are here to do. That is why I visit this forum to look for every post by RAH, because I know he has an eye for details and a history of many of the films he reviews and a level of expertise I can only dream about.

I am a Disney and film noir freak. I care. And there were sufficient reviews out there that this purchase was no more needed to confirm my fully merited anger at BVHE for FUBARing this film than buying The Hitchcock Blu-ray collection and knowing I was going to disappointed with The Man Who Knew Too Much.

 

[haineshisway]

Then why did you reply to this thread in the first place then? If anything from you're last few replys on here its that you like to create unnecessary drama.

This is, last I looked, a discussion board. Someone made a post about writing to Disney based on seeing screen caps and I responded. I don't have to like the film to do that. That's not creating drama, unnecessary or otherwise, it's making a comment that if I were someone at Disney and someone sent me a missive saying a transfer was a travesty and then admitting they hadn't seen it, that I could not take such a missive seriously. Please explain to me the drama because I must have missed it. However, I'm bowing out of this thread because there does seem to be unnecessary drama here and not by me. See you in other threads.

 

[JoeDoakes]

The bottom line is, I should not have had to buy this film on Blu-ray. That is what Blu-ray reviews by folks who do this regularly are here to do. That is why I visit this forum to look for every post by RAH, because I know he has an eye for details and a history of many of the films he reviews and a level of expertise I can only dream about.

I am a Disney and film noir freak. I care. And there were sufficient reviews out there that this purchase was no more needed to confirm my fully merited anger at BVHE for FUBARing this film than buying The Hitchcock Blu-ray collection and knowing I was going to disappointed with The Man Who Knew Too Much.

Robert Harris tends to give a pass with Disney's fiddling with its animated classics, although he says something like he's judging them based on their effort at a "new creation." That is why I was wondering if the Sword and the Stone image is particularly bad compared to Disney's recent history. Perhaps, since this was not a major title, Disney simply put much less effort into its new creation than with something like Peter Pan.

 

[Mark-W]

I have never complained about a Disney release before.

This is much worse. As I said, films from the era where the drawing was rougher, it is not just a matter of making things look like the actual cells rather than film-like. This transfer looses information that was sharp and clear on the cells in terms of animator marks and details.

Sleeping Beauty and Peter Pan can get away with going through a digital clean up because everything other than the backgrounds was already done in a very clean, flawless, "let's make this look like no hands ever touched this," only "coloring-inside-the-lines" style with fully detailed backgrounds where all the work was also very clean and neat. That is not true for The Sword in The Stone's style, which is much rougher and looser, with inchoate backgrounds.