The State Of Classic TV on DVD (and thoughts on the future) (1 Viewer)

[michael_ks]

Except that the huge outcry over "The Fugitive" gaffe would seem to paint a different picture. Paramount has to realize that they majorly shot themselves in the foot and will probably just give up on releasing any more volumes.

I honestly believe that the music replacement has jaded many a fan of classic tv where Paramount's releases are concerned.

 

[Al.Anderson]

I have to admit, my viewing tolerance for this varies. I'm much less agreable for dramas than for comedies. (The Fugative was a definite no buy.) However, I've recently made the decision to no longer blind buy and not purchase altered shows, just to make a monetary point to the studios.

Having said that, I may retract in isolated cases. For instance I would have *preferred* an Addams Family with the laugh track removed.

 

[Gary OS]

You would think Paramount would realize this, Michael, but I wonder... I'm to the place where I believe CBS/P just flat out doesn't care what we think. They are the classic example of a big, big business that is going to do what they want to and we (in their eyes) are just little peons that don't matter. Honestly, that's how I believe their thinking works at this point. They certainly can't claim any type of "we listen to our customers" attitude like Shout can now that they've made sure we are getting uncut prints for FKB Season 2. So I just don't think they care at all. Honest I don't.

And here's another thing about how they've handled these two fiascoes (FUGE & M3S). In neither instance have they come out and really given us solid answers as to why they've made these decisions. Sure, they put out the puny presser about THE FUGITIVE after Dave and Gord and others pressured them, but even that really didn't explain the story. And here's my theory as to why they aren't giving us more scoop and being more open with us: Because they are ultimately at fault themselves and they know it! Stay with me here. If the problem was that an estate or a certain composer was holding them for hostage - asking for way too much money - they'd surely get that info out in one way or another. We've got precedent for that with other companies. If you are not to blame you tell the consumer why things are the way they are. That way we could all send our angry letters to the estate or company or individual that was responsible because of their greed. But I don't think that's the problem here. The problem is probably very similar to what happened with THE FUGE and it's basically on CBS/P. They are taking the easy road out because they are unwilling to go the extra mile to secure the music in question. Again, if the problem is someone asking for too much, tell us about it CBS/P so we can be upset at the right people. But they aren't doing that. They are remaining quiet, and I have to believe that's a glaring sign that ultimately they are in the wrong here and they know it. It's probably all about expediency and the easy buck for them. They've made no move to show us that they care about the consumer or the fan base of these classic shows. No move at all.


Gary "really sick of this" O.

 

[TravisR]

That's what makes me mad about The Fugitive and My Three Sons. It's disgraceful that Paramount tried to sneak them out and hope that no one would notice or that people would buy it before hearing about the music replacement. That's just sleazy.

If you look in the Night Gallery Season Two, I gave a thumbs up to Universal for telling people two months in advance that that set would be missing two small segments. That way, I know the facts and I can make a choice if I want to purchase the set. I don't buy it and find out on my own that something is missing.

 

[RichieMagoo]

I'm with you, Gary OS! I can see the copyrioght owners asking a small fortune for Love & Marriage (The Married...With Children theme) because it is a "standard" for which I'd assume there is still quite a demand- but the idea of a copyright holder holdiong out for exhorbitant fees for the M3S music(as good as it was) and other show's themes/scoring is just absurb, because other than the opportunity to sell the rights to the DVD producers, there is probably no demand or market at all for such music, so if the owners blow their one big opportunity by being greedy.....they're out in the cold. I mean really....who's gonna come knocking at their door for the M3S music? The only thing it's good for, is to use with the show!

I also have a hunch that Hollywood in general is not too crazy about putting out these great old shows. Sure...they want to make the money, where possible, but if you think about it, these old shows really illustrate what's wrong with the modern shows.

When these old shopws were made, Hollywood (to some degree) still cared about it's audience, and about not offending the values of mainstream society. They may not have ever catered to the highest common denomoinator...but they at least catered to the median.

By comparison, today they cater to the lowest common denominator...and they don't give a flying eff about offending mainstream society, but instead are more concerned about not offending small groups...and about pushing their agenda on mainstream society. Watching these good old shows makes one painfully aware of such facts, and I'm sure the people who flood the airwaves with modern crap would much rather that everyone think that this is the way it always was....and to be content with their current drivel; and maintain low expectations...rather than seeing that entertainment can be of high calibre and high quality...and not push any agendas, but mirror and reinforce the values of the majority of it's audience members.

 

[Corey3rd]

When these shows were made, they catered to the sponsor's key demographic. You didn't offend the main sponsor or their consumer base. They cared little for the median - they wanted the housewife that bought the soap, the dad who bought the new car or the kid who drinks the Pepsi. I'm enjoying the Beverly Hillbillies set with the sponsor codas. There's Jed getting packs of Winstons for the guest stars to smoke. The main sponsor steered the ship back in the day.

 

[Joe Lugoff]

Paramount knows darn well that fans of classic TV don't like music replacement. Why else would they put their notice about it in print so small I needed an electron microscope to make it out?

Why is it that no matter what wonderful thing people invent, some people need to ruin it?

We all know what a minority (I hope) of people did to ruin investment and banking in the US (and thus the world) now.

And the Internet itself is getting on my nerves now ... a lot of pages on a lot of sites take a long time to load (or won't load at all) while the system is waiting to connect to some ad or other. Greed may well do in the Internet.

But the "ruiners" have gone out of their way to ruin classic television on DVD.

How do they think of these things?

Cut episodes ... time compressed episodes ... music replacement ... I bet right now they're deviously hatching new schemes. We can only guess at what they might be.

 

[Jim B.]

The Median was the housewife and the Dad and the kids.
Magoo is right these old shows are a stark contrast to todays crotch humor.

 

[RichieMagoo]

But the mainstream middle-class and working class family-type people still are (and always will be- as long as society exists) the key demographic. Trouble is, these corps seem to just take the business of the key demographic for granted today- like Wal*Mart, McDonalds and Ford- which are promoting agendas that are designed to appeal to a very small percentaghe of society....while not caring if doing so offends their key demographic.

When CEOs start ignoring the bottom line, and put philosophies and political agendas first......their companies will crash and burn...even without all the stimuli of the debt crisis/housing bubble/NAFTA-CAFTA, etc.

 

[Garysb]

Per Dave's post on the My Three Sons thread there was detailed explanation about The Fugitive and why it really wasn't necessary to do what CBS did. Bottom line was CBS/Paramount stated they couldn't tell what music they had the rights to so rather than make an error and include music they didn't have permission to use, they chose to replace all the music except the theme. Or it was because using some original underscore and some newly composed underscore would be too jarring so they decided to replace all the underscore. Or it would take too long to identify what music needs to be replaced so rather than delay the release they decided to change the score. The ownership of music in the Capital Library is currently in dispute and probably can not be licensed. This was one of the sources of music used in The Fugitive and needs to be removed. Article says they could have identified all music if they had hired an expert and therefore it wasn't necessary to replace everything. FMS FEATURE ["The Fugitive" Music Debacle: Why It Happened – by Jon Burlingame]

 

[bmasters9]

Certainly they do. Where that matters a lot is in comedies. I mean, after all, if Warner can release all 10 seasons' worth of "Friends" (both individually and in a completed series package), why (up until now) couldn't FOX release all of "Mary Tyler Moore," a series that, based on how much I've seen of it (I'm 10 episodes into the 3rd season) stands to me as far superior to "Friends," based on such issues as the very low level of sexual content, the great theme song, and others? (Those issues, by the way, are in comparison to "Friends.")

 

[TravisR]

Your hunch is wrong. They put out what sells and new shows far outsell older shows. If it was the opposite, you'd see more older shows. They don't care about morals or wholesomeness or the lack of it- they just put out what makes money.

 

[jamoon2006]

I have to respectfully disagree about today's TV always appealing to the lowest common denominator. Sure, there's some junk on the air now, but there are also some great shows that, years from now, may be considered classics in their own right. I would count House, Arrested Development, 24, 30 Rock, The Closer and The Office (just off the top of my head

) as examples of better than gutterball TV. Whether they'll be as highly regarded as other shows is for history, but I hate it when people dismiss everything currently on the air (and I'm speaking as a 24 year old who's a big fan and collector of 50s, 60s and 70s TV).

I agree with you that classic shows offer a different type of entertainment...not necessarily better or worse, but different. Maybe I'm missing your point about how today's TV offends mainstream America. Profanity and violence may be more prevalent now on TV, but I don't see how that's pushing an agenda...?

 

[Ethan Riley]

Best dvd in terms of music? Lately, it's Saturday Night Live. As far as I know, they've haven't replaced any music in 4 seasons now...and that's a LOT of songs.

Worst? Probably the original 90210--they replaced EVERYTHING...and that's a LOT of songs.

 

[DeWilson]

...and if you consiter some the of acts on the show - that's simply amazing!

But then NBC/Universal had the money to clear music unlike say Burt Sugarman owith his "Midnight Special" releases or MPI when they released "Music Scene"!

 

[The Obsolete Man]

SNL is a miracle as far as music rights go.

However, you have to wonder if that miracle will continue after the original cast is gone, or if there will even be a release for the non-Michaels years.

One thing about the SNL bit though... don't the companies have to pay for not only the song rights, but performance rights, too? Meaning if it were a studio version of the songs, they would have to pay more than using the unique live SNL versions of the songs?

 

[Joe Karlosi]

It would seem logical, wouldn't it? Though there ARE whole series out of old shows which cannot possibly be making as much as some of the newer ones. Who picks what older shows get out, and why?

I've always been against this wrong-headed idea (by the studios, I mean) that "we'll only put out newer shows, because they'll sell the most!" -- Well, duh. That's a no-brainer. But everything else that's older (and often times better) gets flushed down the toilet just because it didn't have the advantage of being around when TV-On-DVD was in its prime? Nonsense.

 

[Bryan^H]

I always thought that live performances were an entirely different part of the rights issue. It just seems there are a lot of variety type shows on dvd that don't hesitate at all to include songs by the original artists. Many from smaller companies like Rhino(Pink Lady and Jeff), and the Burt Sugarman's Midnight Special on dvd. It features such artists as Rod Stewart, Blondie, and Barry Manilow, and I've never even heard of the company(Guthy Renker Entertainment) that puts the dvd's out. There is no way they could afford those big name songs for the dvd unless there is some sort of clause enabling them to use them.

 

[LCD22]

You're lucky Universal gave such an advance notice. I found out while searching through Google close to street that the first season of "The Fall Guy" was coming with music replacement. But it ended up not being just "music replacement". The "WKRP" situation aside, this is the most single handily, IMHO, the most deceitful thing this company has ever done and they have yet to answer for it.

 

[Mark Y]

I believe it has to do with who owns what, and what else they own. The situation is quite different from the VHS days. For instance, the syndicator Worldvision had its own home video division in the 1980s. Back then, movies were the bread and butter of the video business. TV shows in general were considered mostly a non-entity unless it was Star Trek. Anyway, Worldvision released one episode of The Fugitive, the final episode. Worldvision at that time also handled the syndication of the majority of the Hanna-Barbera library...but significantly, they did not control most of the earlier H-B material which, at that time, was their most popular stuff -- The Flintstones, The Jetsons, Huckleberry Hound, Yogi Bear -- and so a lot of lesser-known characters got VHS releases, because the "big guns" weren't standing ahead of them in line. Now, the situation is even more complicated because of all the mergers with one company buying up another company. Before Turner got bought out by Warner Bros., they released almost all the pre-1948 Warner Bros. cartoons on laserdisc -- their library consisted of some 300 plus titles, where now it's all under one roof and there are over 1000 cartoons. If they were still split, with WB owning some and Turner owning some, a lot more of it would be out by now -- but of course, they wouldn't have been able to do the restoring of the earlier shorts from the color separations.

Of course, when the game gets bigger, more people want to get their hand in the cookie jar, and then the lawyers get involved...and then it's a whole different game...