Directors The Mindgame Movies- the tournament (1 Viewer)

[Lew Crippen]

or else their brains are easy lays.

How did you know?


I’m happy to abide by Justin’s clarification (or just an arbitrary decision).

For m, Psycho (unlike most Hitch movies where we know everything in advance) fundamentally surprises at the end. The would meet the test of messing with my mind.

I’d concede that A Clockwork Orange might not be what Justin had in mind.

And as for The Vanishing, I think that Sluizer messes with us from the beginning to the end. When we are put in the Rex persona, we are expected to be as confused as Rex. Why has Saskia gone missing? How could it have happened? Why does no one care? Why has no one seen?

Who is contacting me? Why don’t they make themselves known? Is she still alive? If not, how did she die? What was her fate? What is mine?

All mind games, I would think.

BTW, my nomination was for the 1988 version, not the remake.

As for Pink Flamingos, aside from the fact that Waters just likes to mess with his audience no matter the film. I’d say that it qualifies, even if you drop ‘mind’ as a qualifier.

 

[LukeB]

Well, if my nomination of BTTF2 doesn't count, there's no point in continuing here. Maybe if it was subtitled...

 

[ChuckDeLa]

I dunno... what you say about The Vanishing could apply to almost any mystery movie, couldn't it?

Psycho... maybe. It's a shocking surprise, yes, but is that enough to qualify as a mindfuck? I guess it's up to the individual's definition of mindfuck.

 

[ChuckDeLa]

Well, if my nomination of BTTF2 doesn't count, there's no point in continuing here. Maybe if it was subtitled...

Only two films in the tournament so far are subtitled (Audition and Santa Sangre).

 

[Lew Crippen]

Thanks Jen, I’d missed the second.

One more thing on the noms, Chuck. We may well be working with a different set of definitions. You are correct that in the end we know exactly the deal in films like The Vanishing and Psycho

So if Justin wants to exclude films where the ending makes everything clear, those films would be excluded.

But I’d observe that films like Brazil make everything clear in the end, as well as those you mentioned.

If it were me (and it is not), I’d be tempted to classify films that are not cleared up at the end as enigmatic, among other things.

 

[ChuckDeLa]

Well, I didn't think Brazil was a particularly good choice either. But then, I can be a picky bastard.

It's not just that Vanishing and Psycho are cleared up at the end, but even during the film you're not that confused/mindfucked. You're simply trying to solve the mystery like the characters are.

 

[Lew Crippen]

Since I don’t speak either Dutch or French, I consider The Vanishing subtitled.

 

[ChuckDeLa]

Some other suggestions:
Blair Witch Project
Solaris (either one, I suppose... haven't seen the original)
Jacob's Ladder
Fight Club (sort of)

 

[ChuckDeLa]

The Vanishing hasn't been thirded yet.

 

[ChuckDeLa]

Sorry to be dominating this thread!

Anyway, I've been Googling a bit and reading what other people have to say about "mindfuck movies", and I'm realizing that my definition is much stricter than the norm. So I'll back off.

I'm surprised there's been no Fellini nominated yet. I've only seen 8 1/2 and La Dolce Vita and didn't like either, but he certainly qualifies as a mindfucker.

Also, L'Avventura might qualify.

 

[JenB]

I would support and second BTTF II since it did screw a bit with audiences since the alternate versions of several of the characters were pretty different and screwed up and a lot of it was a very dark tone compared to the other two movies. At the time, a lot of it kinda made you wonder what the heck was happening to the series and what dark, nasty direction it had turned in to.

 

[Justin_S]

What I was looking for basically is a really bizarre, surreal film in which very warped things happen, and the end is usually (though not always) left up to the viewer's interpretation. Going with that definition, if any of you think any of the films nominated so far don't fit the bill, simply let me know, and we'll discuss the matter.

 

[Lew Crippen]

What I was looking for basically is a really bizarre, surreal film in which very warped things happen, and the end is usually (though not always) left up to the viewer's interpretation.

Given that I think we should question:

·Brazil: This is close. It meets the surreal test in which very warped things happen. We know exactly where we are at the end.
·Eyes Wide Shut: All of the weird stuff is really pretty normal, so long as your definition of normal is having enough money to indulge your every sexual fantasy. And acting upon it. We know where we are at the end.
·Natural Born Killers: Pretty straightforward in a violent, nightmarish way. For me this is too realistic. Not at all surreal.
·The Vanishing: Chuck is right. I’d like my nomination withdrawn.
·The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance: Withdraw my nom.
·A Clockwork Orange: Withdraw my nom.
·Psycho: We know exactly where we are at the end.
·The Last Temptation of Christ: more controversial than strange. Withdraw my nom.

Nominate:

That Obscure Object of Desire, a film where the female lead is played by two dissimilar actresses for no discernable reason.

The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie, another one by Buñuel (who helped being surrealism in film), where three couples sit down to dinner but are never able to eat. The ending is enigmatic.

Last Year At Marienbad: When I was a student, we argued the night away as to the meaning of this film. It is a beautiful film, populated with characters filled with, what? We are not sure? Why do they do what they do? There seem to be no answers? Will the woman run away with the man? Who knows? Why does he even want her? Again, who knows? The one substantive thing I got out of this was how to play the match game. This meets every test there is or could be in messing with your mind. And it might even be a great film. Or not.

Woman of the Dunes: While this one might ‘be crystal clear compared to ‘Marienbad, it is a mind-number. A salaryman on vacation becomes trapped at the bottom of a pit of sand. Alone except for one woman. His never ending task is to shovel sand. Stunning cinematography and an outstanding score. But why does he (and she) so passively accept their fate? Here I think that there may be answers, but it is mind-numbing.

 

[ErikG]

Some other suggestions: Blair Witch Project

Nominated it yesterday.

 

[SteveGon]

Only two films in the tournament so far are subtitled (Audition and Santa Sangre).

Actually, Santa Sangre is in English.

If Justin would be so kind as to bestow more seconds upon us, I'd be happy to nominate Phantasm and the original Solaris.

 

[Justin_S]

Okay, The Vanishing, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, A Clockwork Orange, and The Last Temptation of Christ are all withdrawn from the tourney.

If one other person requests Psycho be removed, I'll remove it too. It is basically a mystery/horror with a surprising, but not warped ending.

Brazil fits, because as Lew says, it is warped and surreal. I'm not sure about removing Eyes Wide Shut or Natural Born Killers either. If a few more people voice in that they don't fit, I'll remove them. If not, they stay.

Now, I myself am nominating Jacob's Ladder, Solaris (original), Phantasm, Fight Club (if you guys disagree with this one, speak up) and Sisters on behalf of the people who suggested them, as I agree they are great films that may fit. Everyone gets three more seconds and thirds.

 

[SteveGon]

I'll second:

Phantasm
Sisters
Solaris

I don't think Psycho belongs here, either.

 

[Justin_S]

Rand, LOST HIGHWAY is already in automatically.

 

[Bill J]

to Psycho

Nominate:
Solaris 2002

Third:
Solaris 1972

 

[Justin_S]

Okay, Steve and Bill, PSYCHO is gone.

Let me know about any other questionable titles.

Also, if you all think we could make it to 64, let me know.