The "I hate American made cars" thread (1 Viewer)

[JeremyFr]

I own a 1998 Grand Am and have not had any major mechanical problems with it aside from Water Pump & alternator both of these were do to my wife getting hit head on by a drunk driver. But since both repairs which were covered by our warranty we havent had any problems. The car Currently has almost 96,000 miles on it and runs great, good gas mileage no problems with the tranny or anything I torutre the car in my every day driving but at the same time perform most of the maintenance myself and baby it when I do. I'll be it if it can make it to 650,000 miles like my old 1985 Camry did I'll be amazed but so far its been a good car and I've been quite happy with it.

 

[David-S]

and japanese cars dont? you can get a new civic for next to nothing, and expect it to last you forever. try driving a cavalier for more than 100k miles.

I have (well, Grand Am, not cavy, but same idea...)

So far my car has needed: Clutch replaced (learned to drive manual on it), water pump replaced, alternator replaced (killed it w/ my stereo)...

The water pump cost ~500, roughly what a timing belt on a honda would have cost by now...

Dad's Bonneville: 100k miles, nothing's gone bad, at all...
My pontiac 6000 before the GA, 120k miles, had to replace the radiator and battery...


My next car is not going to be US, but that's because of the type of car I want, not reliability concerns...

 

[David-S]

this doesnt matter at all. the gm garbage was designed by gm, not by anyone else. plus the country of origin doesnt really matter, if gm were putting out the same quality of product, but were based in japan, they would still make garbage

Would you buy a Mazda Bxxxx or a ford ranger?? Mazda Tribute or Ford Escape? Toyota matrix or pontiac vibe?

They're all the same cars, in case you didn't know...

 

[James Edward]

I remember reading a few years ago about the high failure rate in Ford transmissions vs their similar counterpart in
Mazda vehicles after their merger.

After investigation, it was found that the Ford plants were allowing their transmission machining to go to the edge of spec before adjustment. The Mazda plants were re-adjusting their machinery much sooner.

My aunt's '95 Chrysler Concorde with 51k has had 2 compressor replcements, and a new transmission. I have a Geo Prizm(Toyota Corolla basically) with 90k and ONE thing has gone wrong- the A/C Delco alternator at 20k. This is one of the few American parts on the car.

The frustrating thing is that cars have been being built here for so long, and on such a large scale, you'd think we could do it better. We can, but I guess it's easier for GM, etc., to just bitch about the amount of imports rather than try and just compete.

 

[LanceJ]

I grew up with Toyotas: learned how to drive in a '73 Corolla; we owned a 1988 Cressida for 4 years; and I now own a 1986 Celica GT-S (most people mistake it for a 1995-era car--it was styled here in America!). They are well-built cars but.....

OH MY GOD THEY ARE SO FRIGGING' EXPENSIVE TO REPAIR!

Their repair bills are positively frightening. And finding someone in my city of six million that actually knows how to fix them properly has always been a nightmare. I think they are too sophisticated for their own good (when BMW's ridiculous "i-Drive" system finally breaks, I feel soooo sorry for the owner!).

Fords--three of them--were of our family's worst repair AND build-quality experiences. Me or my parents will never buy one again. We now know why Ford is having so many financial problems. "Quality Is Job One" my ass!

General Motors has given us the most satisfying experinces so far so they are back again (in their driveway at least). Build quality is decent and parts & mechanics are easy to find. Not as well styled as most Chryslers are though.

Next year for me (my first new car!): probably an Alero with a V6. Unless GM's Holden division in Australia starts shipping that rumored replacement for the Camaro. Mmmmm......V8 power. Holden "Monaro" (Motor Trend is NOT my favorite car mag--they just had the best photo)

LJ

 

[Todd Hochard]

The camaro is lower cost for a reason, mostly inferior parts - at least compared to the 'vette.

Not so. Virtually all the mechanical stuff, including engine parts, emissions, trans, AC, electrical, brake calipers, etc. is the same. Having owned several Camaros (and currently still owning one) and a couple of Corvettes, I know this to be fact.

Note that my daily drivers are Honda/Acura. Just turned 120K on the '95 Accord EX, and I've put exactly $70 in corrective maintenance into it. I like Honda's philosophy, so I won't be switching brands anytime soon.

Regarding AC systems in general- a big killer for systems, is the fact that they aren't run often enough. In you live up North, run it at least weekly (in most cars, and certainly GM, running the defroster turns on the AC compressor) and for a good length of time. Modern AC systems put very little drain on the gas mileage, so don't worry about that.

Todd

 

[LewB]

I like Honda's philosophy, so I won't be switching brands anytime soon.

What is their philosophy ? Just curious ...
I own a '94 Accord EX with 100K + that has cost me $100 for a new fuel sending unit and $200 (I think) for a window regulator (thingy that makes power windows go up and down.). Other than those 2, it's been normal maintenance (brakes, exhaust pipes, timing belt, tune ups). Boy these cars are boring to own

 

[Christ Reynolds]

Would you buy a Mazda Bxxxx or a ford ranger?? Mazda Tribute or Ford Escape? Toyota matrix or pontiac vibe? They're all the same cars, in case you didn't know...

i wouldnt buy any of those vehicles. and yes, i did know they are all the same cars. the similarities between GM model lines are even hazier. however, i'm not exactly sure why you decided to say this in a reply to what i said. i think its because mazda has japanese roots, but is owned by ford. no matter what badge you slap on a crappy car, its still a crappy car.

CJ

 

[Steve Schaffer]

In my experience as a tech at a Toyota dealer service dept. the main difference between US and Japanese brands is in the quality of component parts rather than the assembly quality of the car itself.

The US-built Toyota Corollas used AC/Delco alternators for a few years and these were good for 30-40k tops, while the Nippondenso units used in most other models were good for 150k.

All US branded cars have had the AC-on in defrost mode for many years, the Japanese only in the last 5 or so. Failure rate on US brand compressors is still much higher.

We get plenty of domestics as used cars both as trade-ins and bought at auction from leasing and rental companies. As a rule the assembly quality of the vehicle is quite good, but there are more failures of component parts than on Japanese brands, and various aspects of engineering and design seem to be less well-thought-out.

Having said all this, I've owned in excess of 25 vehicles over the years, about evenly divided between Domestic and Japanese brands. I have only had catastrophic drivetrain failures on 2 of them. Both occurred at under 40k miles and both were Japanese brands. Both were repaired under warranty even though it had officially expired.

All mfgs make mistakes in design and manufacture. The Japanese tend to promptly correct such mistakes, correct the assembly or design error as soon as possible, and more often than not issue voluntary recalls or extended warranties. The Domestics go into a state of stonewall denial, and steadfastly refuse to correct design errors--witness the many years of defective Ford and Chrysler automatic transmissions.

 

[JeremyFr]

Just wanted to clarify the Monaro will be the new GTO not a replacement for the Camaro. It will feature the same engine as the Z06 Corvette but detuned to 350hp though they will both share the same 6 speed tranny etc.

 

[Carlo_M]

Being at an age where a lot of friends are buying cars for the first time (late twenties, a lot of us had cars from high school which parents helped buy and are on last legs), I can share my general experience. Most of my friends w/ US cars that are bad are the "muscle" cars, Camaros, Firebirds, Mustangs - where the engine literally shook the cars apart. A lot of those folks are swearing never to buy US again and have bought Honda Accords, Nissan Maximas, Audi A4, etc. in the last few years and are happy with them. I'm okay with my 2000 Altima, although my first car was a 1989 Toyota standard pickup which ran like a champ up until some guy totaled it while hitting me in 2000. I swear I could have gotten another 5+ years on it no problem, more probably.

Of the new cars my friends have, I have liked the Accord *(coupe) and the Audi A4 best. I'm seriously looking European next time - the build quality on the A4 is impressive for the price (mid twenties).

Just my (and my friends') opinions. YMMV - pun intended.

 

[Philip_G]

I like to dream that my next car will be a used S4 (biturbo, of course) however, I feel audi's build quality has suffered of late :frowning:
I'm not terrible thrilled with subaru, for that matter. They have some isses yet to be addressed.

 

[Shane Bos]

My 1990 Dakota is at 310,000km with only about $1000 into front end work. even that wasn't the trucks fault it had alot more to do with a very large bump in the middle of the road that I hit at about 60km/h.

I would not even consider buying a japanese vehicle. I think hte styleing is ugly on just about everyone of them. I would look at European vehicles but my next one will probably be N. American probably a Ford 1/2 ton.

 

[David Susilo]

To me it's rather simple. I compared a 4-door Ford Focus vs 4-door Jetta and make their features to be almost exactly the same (Focus with options is still less complete than the basic Jetta.

Yes the Focus has 2 litre Zetec engine, but the Jetta comes with 1.8 Turbo (180HP, with 1740 lb/ft of torque at 2000rpm). They both come with auto tranny, but the Jetta comes with 5-speed auto with TipTronic. Focus comes with 3-program auto tranny whereas the Jetta is the 10-program system.

Considering the above (and LOTS more) and the price difference of only about US$1000 (MSRP), it's no brainer for me to pick the Jetta.

 

[MikeAlletto]

Most of my friends w/ US cars that are bad are the "muscle" cars, Camaros, Firebirds, Mustangs - where the engine literally shook the cars apart.

Can car problems also be the way people drive them? As the above quote I'm sure all those friends with the 'muscle' cars when they were young would floor it every single time they hit a green light. They would always push it as hard as they can. Its no wonder the cars tore themselves apart. I'm very hard on cars also. I'm calming down and am not as hard on the cars as I was when I first got my license though. I'm only 28 and I'm on my 3rd car already. Had a 87 Nissan 200sx in high school and start of college (that car rusted out), then 2 saturns (first one accident after 3 years was totaled, 2nd one is a 2000 sc2 and thats what I have now). My next car will probably be a sports car of some type probably a BMW.

 

[Carl Miller]

My American car nightmare was a 1993 Plymouth Duster. It ran flawless until 1998 when at 40,000 miles the tranny blew.

2 years but only 4,000 miles over warranty I got hit with an $1,800 bill and Chrysler wouldn't do a thing to help me. No tranny should blow at 40,000 in my opinion, but when I attempted to get a little chopped off the bill due to the low mileage I found out Chrysler disagreed with me.

The statement from the manager of the service garage at the Chrysler dealer, and I am quoting:

"Your car has an electronic transmission and they just don't last 70,000 miles like you think they should".

The statements from Chryslers Customer Care (an oxymoron if ever there was one) *after* he told me I wasn't being unreasonable in my expectations:

"I agree with you sir, but that's why you should have purchased an extended warranty. That would have protected you from this".

After much discussion, and being told that I was being reasonable in my dissatisfaction but still getting no help from Chrysler (all I was asking for was 25% off the bill) I told the guy I would soon be in need of a new car for the family and had 30k earmarked for a Cherokee. I told him that due to this, they'd lost my business and that I'd never buy a Chrysler again.

His reply? "That's fine sir."

I wrote lots of letters to complain, but never got a reply.

13 months later the rebuilt tranny started failing and I took the car off the road. I replaced the car with a used Maxima, and eventually bought a Lexus RX 300.

I'll never buy an American car ever again. The biggest problem in my opinion with American car companies is that they often offer both a poor product and poor service.

I hear the service at the Nissan dealership isn't all that great...But then again, I don't know if that's true because I've never had to bring the car in.

And therein lies the difference.

 

[Jeremiah]

I do think "American" made cars don't last as long as Toyota's, Mazdas etc. but I have only owned one Toyota truck and 3 Chevy's. A problem with stuff not getting fixed properly has more to do with the mechanic than the car imo, it is very hard to find a good mechanic and more importantly, an honest one.

I also don't think anyone has a thing on US cars/trucks. No foriegn truck is as nice a Chevy or Ford or Dodge, and nobody has a thing on the Vette or the Mustang. Obviously, Mercedes or BMW are a seperate intity altogether.

 

[LanceJ]

Chysler unfortunately has had a decades-long history of low quality. Their engineering ideas are usually inspired (how about that jet-powered car!), but IMO they can't seem to build them very well. Arrgh!

But Chrysler's styling department can sure churn out some beautiful looking cars.

To be totally honest, I think Honda makes the best cars around, followed very closely by Toyota (consistently good styling seems to escape them however). Reliable, long-lasting and built great. But those repair bills......

FYI: Have y'all heard of the $60,000+ Volkwagen coming out? Check it out here.

LJ

 

[JeremyFr]

to add to the Chrysler is bad bandwagon, when I was very young my parents bought a K-Car of course the thing was a lemon and after having the car in the shop more than on the road my mom decided to make a few calls to vocalize her concerns. Believe or not she was able to get Lee Iococa (yes I know I probably spelled that horribly wrong) on the phone and this is what he told my mom I quote "we've got your money and you've got the car live with it!" My family has never purchased a single Chrysler product since.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

I swore off Chrysler products 15 years ago, and their quality has not improved much since based on friends and co-workers experiences. The chances of either the air conditioner or transmission dying within 50,000 miles is probably 60% (the a/c on both my wife's and my Mopars died before 40k).

I do agree that what is considered an "American" car these days is difficult to determine. My wife's last two vehicles have been Mercury Villagers, which are nothing more than a rebadged Nissan Quest. Before that, she had a 1990 Ford Probe (rebadged Mazda MX-6), which is still running (we sold it to our neighbor six years ago, and their kids have beaten the crap out of it since then, but it still runs).

Meanwhile, I went from an '89 Ford Tempo (my last "true Big 3" car) that ran very well but had an underpowered engine to a '93 Toyota Camry V6 that has yet to have a major repair (we sold it to another neighbor a year ago). I hope my new '02 Nissan Altima serves me as well.