The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (2012) (1 Viewer)

[Chris Atkins]

Well, as an uber-fan of the book THE HOBBIT, I would like to see Christopher Tolkein insist on a very faithful adaptation of the book, a la Harry Potter.

Before I get trampled by the Uruk-Hai, I love the LOTR movies, in spite of their changes from the book.

 

[Fred Mounts]

I wonder what the motive behind this is? I mean, I understand wanting to honor/perserve his father's legacy, but if J.R.R. himself ok'd movies, I think the son should get out of the way.

 

[Chris Atkins]

Selling the rights and liking the movies can be two different things, though. I know Chris Tolkein sincerely believes the new movies do not---ahem---do justice to the books.

I think the term he used was "the book does not translate well to a visual medium."

 

[Marvin Richardson]

If Christopher Tolkien had any sense (which I'm not always sure about) he'd be happy that the movies are as faithful to the spirit of the books as they are, and delight in the fact that the books are enjoying a resurgance (which is saying something given how popular they've always been) and more and more people are getting to read his father's work.

I kinda think the guys a loon myself. He's published five million editions of his father's notes as "books"; things his father never meant to be published, they were notes and history and background he did for himself. So has Christopher been milking his father's legacy or is he just giving the public what they want?

Edit because I can't type...

 

[Malcolm R]

Christopher Tolkien comes across as a pompous ass who has spent his entire life coasting on his father's legacy rather than accomplishing anything original on his own.

It pains me to purchase anything Tolkien-related because I know money from that purchase is going to end up in this guy's pocket.

 

[JustinCleveland]

How did the old animated Hobbit get made, if they don't want to license out the rights? Granted it was decades ago, but still... precident has been set.

 

[Sean Bryan]

I know Chris Tolkein sincerely believes the new movies do not---ahem---do justice to the books.

Are you sure he actually bothered to SEE the films? I was under the impression he wanted nothing to do with them and hasn't watched them.

Simon Tolkien, Christopher's son, has stated publicly that he likes the films. Christopher has now cut him out of the Estate (not sure if that was the only reason, I believe they have other differences).

And yes, since the animated Hobbit was made I thought the rights to make that must have been also sold to someone at some point. Wasn't the word just a year ago that there are some legal issue as to who (which studio) has the rights to make it (something like someone has the rights to make it but someone else has the rights to DISTRIBUTE it)? This business about it being up to the Tolkien estate to sell the Hobbit rights is news to me.

 

[Rob Gillespie]

No adaptation of any kind would be good enough for CT.

Christopher Tolkien comes across as a pompous ass who has spent his entire life coasting on his father's legacy rather than accomplishing anything original on his own.

Well, as harsh at that sounds I tend to agree.

 

[george kaplan]

Well if all he wants to do is coast on his father, and make money, then I don't see why he wouldn't want to sell the film rights.

I personally love these movies, but I did cringe at times. Yes, some of the changes were cinematically appropriate, but others just changed the book for no good reason. Most of the omissions are understandable, but most of the changes were unnecessary.

Still it's obvious that Jackson can do these books justice, and if I were CT I'd provisionally sell him the rights, contingent upon script approval.

 

[Scott Weinberg]

I don't totally disagree, but wasn't Christopher the one who shaped The Silmarillion and a few other pieces into publishable manuscripts after his father's death?

Seems like a daunting project to me.

 

[Robert Anthony]

Oh yeah--people often forget that if it wasn't for Christopher, all those copies of "The History of Middle Earth" and the publication of "The Silmarillion" that a lot of us Tolkien junkies hold almost as dear as the Lord of the Rings itself--those things would not exist at ALL. Christopher Tolkien should get SOME credit, c'mon now. A lot of the depth and texture of middle earth was only brought to life VIA those early texts, through his explanations and efforts in editing and research. To say he's simply content to rest on his laurels is kinda shortsighted. If he wanted to rest on his laurels we'd see the kind of merchandising onslaught we see with, say, Star Wars, or Star Trek. Because there's nothing easier than licensing out the brand name and getting fat off residuals.

His opinions are not his fathers as to the adaptability of the stories. And since it's his responsibility to oversee the rights to his fathers estate, it makes sense, from his point of view, to protect those rights to ensure his estate, his legacy, is not somehow muddied. It's not like he doesn't have precedent: Rankin-Bass and Bakshi pretty much smeared feces all over every page of the text--that is, the pages they didn't tear out with their teeth. He had no say in the LOTR film rights--his father already sold those when he was alive. But somehow, he apparently has some say in The Hobbit's film rights, and since he has knowledge his father never had concerning the adaptations of his work, I think if I were Christopher,it'd make sense to me to say "nah, you had your crack at it, i'd rather let my fathers work stand on it's own, without outside interpretation and adaptation."

I disagree with the decision, but I certainly understand it.

 

[Marvin Richardson]

Oh yeah--people often forget that if it wasn't for Christopher, all those copies of "The History of Middle Earth" and the publication of "The Silmarillion" that a lot of us Tolkien junkies hold almost as dear as the Lord of the Rings itself--those things would not exist at ALL. Christopher Tolkien should get SOME credit, c'mon now. A lot of the depth and texture of middle earth was only brought to life VIA those early texts, through his explanations and efforts in editing and research. To say he's simply content to rest on his laurels is kinda shortsighted. If he wanted to rest on his laurels we'd see the kind of merchandising onslaught we see with, say, Star Wars, or Star Trek. Because there's nothing easier than licensing out the brand name and getting fat off residuals.

No, he just dug through every available scrap of paper his father had ever written on and organized the not intended for publication material and released them ad nauseum. He deserves credit for milking his father's intellectual creation and living off of it, sure. I think he doesn't want to sell the rights to The Hobbit because then he wouldn't have control of it. He seems like a very small bitter man in every interview I've ever read or seen. I think he likes to think of himself as more than he is.

 

[Robert Anthony]

Ad nauseum? C'mon now. I'm not happy that he might be holding up a Hobbit Movie that would have the quality of the current LOTR films, but I don't know the guy, you don't know the guy, and I'm damn sure not about to condemn a man who gave a bunch of fans a veritable GOLDMINE of very interesting facts, tidbits and writings from a man that millions of us loved reading. A lot of that stuff WAS intended for publication, as he was constantly re-writing and re-working it. A lot of the stuff was actually FINISHED, it was awaiting the completion of other stories and drafts to be compiled. Tolkien was literally working on that stuff till the day he died, and he ALWAYS wanted it published. From what I understand, Christopher, after Tolkien died, tried to get what he could out there, so people would at least get an idea and a sense of what it was Tolkien spent over 2/3rd of his life crafting.

I for one am thankful that he took the time to do that. Would you rather that the only history we got was what was in the LOTR Appendices? That the Silmarillion never be published? That the rough drafts of LOTR never saw light, that the shaping of one of the most important and well-loved literary works was forever clouded? That the stories that built the mythology that LOTR grew out of stay untold forever? Whether Christopher and the Tolkien family made money off of them is no skin off my nose--hell, half the reason the movie rights were sold in the first place is because the Tolkiens were POOR and needed the money.

To call him a small, bitter man merely sucking the soul out of the estate and milking his dead father to line his own pockets just seems kind of petty, to me. I don't like his decision to not support the movie, and I really think his splits with his family are a little too overboard, but to ascribe this weird mustache twirling soap opera villain caricature to a man I've never met just seems to be too much oversimplification and selfish pouting. There's gotta be a gray area, and I think it's perfectly safe to say I appreciate the man and his efforts in getting as much of his fathers work published as he has, while I'm not so sure about his decisions concerning the movies and his familial relationships in regards to those movies.

 

[Marvin Richardson]

I don't like his decision to not support the movie, and I really think his splits with his family are a little too overboard, but to ascribe this weird mustache twirling soap opera villain caricature to a man I've never met just seems to be too much oversimplification and selfish pouting.

No more so than calling someone who doesn't share you opinion of him petty and selfish. I suppose I'm not allowed to have an opinion about anyone I've never met then?

 

[Robert Anthony]

I said your opinions SEEMED a little petty to me, and they SOUNDED selfish. Maybe they're based on something other than just you being angry that we're not getting a Hobbit movie, I dunno. There doesn't seem to be any other subtext there. I'm just kind of going off what I read, which is why I used the words "SEEMED" and "SOUNDS" because I'm allowing for the fact that maybe I misunderstood your reasoning. I didn't call YOU a petty little man or malign your character, I dont think.
If I offended you, I'm sorry, and I apologize for any misunderstanding, man. I didn't enter into this looking to personally insult anyone. Just stating my opinion and trying to back it up as best I can.
Sure you can have an opinion about people you've never met. I was just suggesting you try to round it out a little. Apparently this is going to be an "Agree to disagree" type situation. No big thing

 

[Marvin Richardson]

Actually I think I'm just pissy because I've never been able to track down all 12 volumes of the History of Middle-earth. At anything resembling a reasonable price. I have a nice leatherbound Hobbit (I guess I should say The Hobbit, not an actual leatherbound hobbit) and Lord of the Rings that YOU DON'T TOUCH (I have paperbacks to read...how sick is that), but I didn't want to buy all 12 volumes in hardback. I saw on Amazon that there is a box set of the first five in paperback.

 

[oscar_merkx]

Well at least this would give NL & Jackson some breathing space as Jackson is filming King Kong for the time being

 

[Robert Anthony]

Well, I'm finding most of the "History of Middle Earth" paperbacks in the Fred Meyer grocery stores out here, of all places. They're called "Krogers" out on the east coast, I guess. Anyway, both "Book of Lost Tales" volumes, Unfinished Tales, The Lays of Beleriand, The Shaping of Middle Earth and The Lost Road are all available in their dinky book section for like, 5.99 each. terrible artwork, but there they are. That just leaves "The History of The Lord of the Rings" and the two books afterwards to find--I've found those at some Borders and such. Chances are, with Return of the King about to hit theaters, they're going to be semi-easy to find in paperback. Check the used bookstores--a lot of people buy them, find out they're pretty much textbooks for a history that never really existed, and sell them back. They expect "The Hobbit" and get "A People's History of The United States."

 

[Tim OK]

He can't be too much of an iron fist, because a Hobbit video game just got released.

 

[MatthewLouwrens]

He can't be too much of an iron fist, because a Hobbit video game just got released.

LOL