The Golden Compass - "His Dark Material" trilogy being filmed? (2 Viewers)

[David Lawson]

Guy, might that be the Chronicles of Prydain?

I might agree with the "Death Gate Cycle" idea if they retooled the final book and made it less anticlimatic. It feels rushed and uninspired, and I was more than a little disappointed by the conclusion of the series.

That said, there would be some fantastic visuals and set locations if they were given enough of a budget to create them.

 

[DaveGTP]

I think the Stephen King Gunslinger books (is that what you meant by Dark Tower books) would work well. I also agree on Feist's riftwar books, at least Magician, as Magician could work as a standalone movie.

 

[Travis Kolesar]

I think these books had a deep spiritual rooting with a message to think for yourself, trust in your own beliefs, and to not ignore the here and now in favor of some promised glorious afterlife. It wasn't so much that the books were anti-religion as much as it was questioning the need for and ways of organized religions. Regardless, religion isn't presented in the most favorable light, and if this didn't make it into the movie, too much integral story would be lost. All of this IMO at least.

 

[TheLongshot]

Are they anti-religious?

It is rather anti-established, dogmatic religion. Probably a little more so than Dogma, which got the attention of the religious right in this country. I do agree that it is pro-faith, which both of those aspects work well in my belief system.

I just have no faith that a big Hollywood movie would keep those aspects in. They don't like controversy in the films that are supposed to make a lot of money.

Jason

 

[Dwayne]

This series sounds very interesting and, yes, the title sounds cool.
It's been a long time since I've read King's Gunslinger Books, but from what I remember, they would make great film material. I'm really surprised this has yet to be brought to the BIG SCREEN.

 

[Vickie_M]

I'm reading the first book now (we picked up a box set of all 3 books) and while I have a long way to go and a lot of characters and situations to experience, I'm enjoying it very much. It started out kind of dry and boring, and I heartily disliked the fact that women are decidedly second class citizens, no matter that the lead character is a girl. I've shaken off my distaste, since it is after all set in Victorian times, and gotten into the story (they've just seen the witches in the air and "rescued" the boy with no daemon).
I will look forward to this movie. I can already see the amount of CGI needed will be massive, but done right it will be wonderful. I'm reading the books now in hopes that I'll "forget" much of it by the time the movies come out, and not be making much ado about changes and whatnot (how very boring such complaints are to read!).
I think there are plenty of excellent child actors around who could play Lyra and the other child characters (I haven't met Will yet). In earlier times Lyra could have been played by Jodie Foster, Fairuza Balk (who made a great Dorothy in Return to Oz, playing her with wonder, melancholy, intelligence and compassion), or Kirsten Dunst, among others. If they look hard enough, which they will, they'll find the perfect Lyra.
I haven't gotten much sense of anti-organized religion so far, but if it's there, heathen that I am, I'm looking forward to it.

 

[James_Kiang]

Vickie -
I recently finished the trilogy. You're right - the first part of The Golden Compass does start off a little slow but it definitely picks up. I felt the anti-organized religion aspects of the series really didn't come to the forefront until the second and third books. It sounds like I am coming from a different perspective than you - I am a believer - but I'm open enough to take this as fiction and entertainment, not some subversive attack. That being said, I did like the trilogy a fair amount. It doesn't rank with The Wheel of Time or the Riftwar saga, but it was entertaining and thought-provoking. I'd like to hear what you think as you get further along.

 

[Adam_S]

It doesn't rank with The Wheel of Time

You're right, it doesn't rank with the wheel of time, it's much much better.

but we'll leave tired fantasy debates aside shall we.

I think you'll find some surprising items at the end of The Golden Compass, that show the series' anti dogma/organization bent. Particularly the church's ideas as to why they should do what they should do. Subtle Knife I don't remember quite as much anti stuff in it, I tore through it so quickly and immediately plunged into Amber Spyglass that I'm not really sure where the one ends and the next begins, but there is some very anti organized religion in the third book at the very least. As someone else said I find the book pro faith (as I find the movie Dogma), but I would be hesitant at letting my little sister read them (she could, despite the fact she's eight), because the ideas are fairly insidious and could easily, very easily, be taken as an inditement of christianity as a whole.

Adam

 

[James_Kiang]

Adam - My comparison to Jordan's series was just that - my comparison. I'm not going to edit my original post to say "for me" because I think it should be obvious that I am stating my opinion only. Basically, I made that statement to give Vickie (or anyone else) an idea of where I am coming from.
I will somewhat agree with you about The Golden Compass being pro-faith. I do feel that it becomes less that way though by the end of the series.
I also would agree that this is probably not proper reading material for an 8 year old (there's always exceptions I suppose). Personally, I don't think I would have my daughter read this until she's 12 or so. That's just me of course.
And just in case...I don't want you or anyone else to interpret any antagonism in the earlier part of this message. While I'm not sure the Movies forum is the place for it, I am interested in discussion about this series and I do think members of the HTF are good sources for this.

 

[Eric F]

The Amber Spyglass is a re-take on Milton's Paradise Lost. You can't get more anti-Catholic Church than that.

I actually liked the first two books but was very dissapointed in the direction the third one took. I think Dan Simmon's Hyperion series did a much better job in achieving what Philip Pullman was after.

 

[Adam_S]

James, that wasn't meant to be antagonistic either, it was more of a gentle jest. I've occaisionally lurked at a fantasty forum or two, and the debates about Jordan are hilarious and scary in their vehemence. I too am interested in discussing things like His Dark Materials at HTF, sorrry if I antagonized you, my comment was more tongue in cheek than anything.

Eric, interesting that you bring up Hyperion. I really liked Hyperion when I initially read it, but I never followed through with the sequels because I'd been frustrated by the fact that the frame story seemed to go nowhere. Since I was totally unfamiliar with Canterbury Tales at the time, I had no idea of the stories origins, now that I've read them, I think I may have to revisit the Hyperion and Endymion books, how are the sequels? do they maintain the quality of the first novel?

Adam

 

[Eric F]

It's hard to mantain the level of those two books. It's been a while since I've read them, but if you liked the first two books they're worth the read. He starts getting more into Church related stuff. It's interesting anyways.
Sort of like the Ender's Game sequels, you know they're not as good compared to a masterpiece like Ender, but they're still worth reading.

Speaking of Ender, there's another SF movie in permanent limbo, and I suspect the reason is similar to the reason why Dark Materials won't be made- at least by a Hollywood studio. There was a topic on an "Ender" movie on /. a while back, and "Uncle Orson" actually responded to one of my posts. My comment was that no studio had the "balls" to touch that type of material- to show the cruelty and violence of children in all its glory. For however violent movies like "Lord of the Flies" was, it was nothing compared to the book, and without its violent element Ender would be nothing. "Uncle Orson" responded to me by saying that he would try to keep as much to the original story as possible, that meant keeping much of the violence intact. That was a few years ago.

What with today's environment of school murders, children on children violence, I suspect that showing children killing other children is just something the studios just don't want to touch. A shame really- that's just what we need. We've gotten so PC that social commentary in films is no longer an acceptable. Films like A Clockwork Orange or even Dr Strangelove could not be made today.

Think of all the briliant work just sitting on some writer's shelf waiting to be filmed? That's why I read, a lot.

 

[Adam_S]

What with today's environment of school murders, children on children violence, I suspect that showing children killing other children is just something the studios just don't want to touch. A shame really- that's just what we need. We've gotten so PC that social commentary in films is no longer an acceptable. Films like A Clockwork Orange or even Dr Strangelove could not be made today.
Think of all the briliant work just sitting on some writer's shelf waiting to be filmed? That's why I read, a lot.

I couldn't agree more. On the violence points as well as the reading.
Anyway this was supposed to be about His Dark Materials... sorry if the thread veared off course, it wasn't intentional. :b
Adam

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

I personally would have found the internal conflict of either Ender or Bean more engaging than simply pitting the two of them against each other. Though the former would be alot harder to pull off on screen then the latter.

 

[James_Kiang]

Adam - I'm glad we got that all cleared up. Sorry for any misinterpretation .
So, back to His Dark Materials...As much as I did enjoy the series and would like to see a well-made movie version, do we think it will really happen? Be warned, some of what I'm about to say will go into spoiler area...
- I do think The Golden Compass could be made, though I think it would require a few changes.
- As we get later into the series, the concept that the Creator is not God, just an angel who took that position, and is now basically an ancient, senile entity
would not be easily put to film by a major company.
- The wheel creatures (I can't even remember their names and I just finished the third book like 3 weeks ago :frowning are obviously going to have to be cgi, and i fear they may actually look kind of....lame.
Still, the first book is full of images I would love to see on film - Iorek ripping into some enemy daemons as well as his battle with the king of the bears is what jumps to mind right now. I guess all we can do is wait and see. In the mean time, any thoughts on casting?

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

James:

 

[Eric F]

As I said before, being that The Amber Spyglass is essentially Paradise Lost, changes to the screenplay to dilute the suggestion that God is not what he appears, would cause any major studio to shudder- especially in a film that was oriented towards children.

Dark Materials is an odd trilogy. The Golden Compass starts out as a children's adventure story, and as the series goes on and the main characters are disillusioned, the story becomes more and more for adults. Personally I don't see how kids could read through the third book without being helped by an adult who was versed in Milton. I had some issues with the third book surrounding that- I became resentfull that the book was almost a rant on the Catholic Church. I suppose that's what Mr.Pullman was after. Not what I wanted though.

I was totally disapointed in the third book and lost interest towards the end. Maybe it's because I'm not Christian, I'm not sure. If anything I realized that I already read Milton in college, and if I wanted to read Paradise Lost again I would have.

 

[Phil Florian]

They should film his books about that Victorian woman who becomes a detective of sorts. Sally Lockhart, I think? Those were great novels and much easier to swallow for skittish studios. They would make fine BBC mysteries, come to think of it. There. I am done now.

Phil

 

[Jeff Kohn]

I became resentfull that the book was almost a rant on the Catholic Church. I suppose that's what Mr.Pullman was after.

I read somewhere that he addmitted as much in an interview.

 

[James_Kiang]

Adam -

I might not have been completely clear. The angel I was referring to wasn't Metatron. This angel was the one who simply took over the "position" of God. He was the one who grew ancient and turned control over to Metatron. He was the angel who Lyra and Will saw being attacked by ghasts and who basically turned to dust (Dust?). Metatron was the more powerful angel that Asriel and Mrs. Coulter took into the abyss. Having said all that, I think the main point I was trying to make is that the series basically presents the idea that there never was a God/Creator, and the being people took to be God was just another angel.